Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom went back to work full time when I was less than two months old. My dad also worked full time. I had a combinations of nannies and then preschool before starting elementary school. It would never occur to me to say that I was raised by anyone besides my parents.

That's a pretty rude attitude toward child care providers.

Not even a little bit.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

This is why many people can't just get a job once their child is school age. It's cheaper and less stress to just have one parent on-call for all the p.i.t.a. kid related issues, especially if the other parent is a high earner. If we both worked, we have literally nobody to cover all the days when kids aren't in school and need care at home. I don't care who looks down on it. Half the families at my school have a SAHP because they have the same problem. Preschool is so few hours during the week we skipped it for all the children and just taught them to read and write and do math at home before they started K, also saved a lot of money there.

Before I had kids and was working, I didn't really feel I was doing anything all that important. So many of these jobs that people think are high status will be replaced by automation and AI. Might as well raise your kids and let the status obsessed folks do their thing.

And yet tons of working parents have figured out how to work and be able to care for their kids on sick days, etc. Sorry you couldn't, but that doesn't mean others can't.

Tons of parents have figured out how to care for their kids without needing two incomes. Sorry you couldn’t, but that doesn’t mean others can’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a huge difference to the kids though to have a more relaxed morning and to be able to come home and rest after school instead of staying in aftercare.

I stopped working when I had my kids, went back part-time when they started school and now that they are in high school I am increasing my hours close to full-time. I have always worked from home and have an intellectually stimulating job.

I realize that I am very lucky and not everyone has the same options as I do. I have no judgment, only sympathy, for those who would prefer to stay home with kids but have to work due to financial reasons.

I will never regret staying home with the kids when they were young. I truly believe that having one lovung and engaged parent stay home is the very best for the children. Those were also some of the best years of my life and I am forever grateful that I had the opportunity.

My husband and I both work full-time and our kids have never done aftercare, they come home right after school because one or both of us is home. Good for you and your set up, but stop acting like either kids who do aftercare are going to end up in group homes or that many working parents don't have their kids in aftercare.

First of all: she’s not doing that.

Second: you don’t get to say this AFTER making sure to point out that YOUR kids have NEVER done aftercare. Hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

This is why many people can't just get a job once their child is school age. It's cheaper and less stress to just have one parent on-call for all the p.i.t.a. kid related issues, especially if the other parent is a high earner. If we both worked, we have literally nobody to cover all the days when kids aren't in school and need care at home. I don't care who looks down on it. Half the families at my school have a SAHP because they have the same problem. Preschool is so few hours during the week we skipped it for all the children and just taught them to read and write and do math at home before they started K, also saved a lot of money there.

Before I had kids and was working, I didn't really feel I was doing anything all that important. So many of these jobs that people think are high status will be replaced by automation and AI. Might as well raise your kids and let the status obsessed folks do their thing.

And yet tons of working parents have figured out how to work and be able to care for their kids on sick days, etc. Sorry you couldn't, but that doesn't mean others can't.

Tons of parents have figured out how to care for their kids without needing two incomes. Sorry you couldn’t, but that doesn’t mean others can’t.

and tons of parents have decided that having a mom and dad is important instead of having just a mom and a dad who works so much he doesn't know how to parent and is never there to do so.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

DP here. Except the problem with your argument is that lots of families with a SAHM have a Dad who is not absent at all, works a 35 hour week and has tons of flexibility to be at events, coach teams, etc. I know many families like this, including ours.

Glad they figured it out too. They tend to be absent from these discussions because there’s a lot of … its impossible to work my H is big law or surgeon and I could only find hubs that had me out of the house from 6-6.

But I agree the majority of families working or with a SAHP don’t have these crazy situations where one or the other parent isn’t home most of the time.

The idea kids are in daycare 8 or 10 or 12 hours are just horror stories made up to justify not working. Most kids have about 3-4 waking hours in other people’s care until they go to school then it’s about 7 hours whether you work or not, unless you homeschool …Except teen athletes they are gone all day.

So many families have figured it out but I guess someone has to marry surgeons and big law partners. Actually they usually have a few wives throughout their life.

Lady, you’re officially batsh!t crazy. Or a troll. Or both.

Most working people have a schedule that vaguely falls around 9-5:30 plus morning and evening commute. How can you live in this area and apparently not know a single Fed, let alone dual Fed couples?

Feds can work a 6-2:30 schedule while the other parent works 9:30-6.

That means 1 parent does am and the other does afternoons.

Not all feds can do this. If you work with a lot of west coast or Pacific island folks in a national program, you can't get off at 2:30 (my situation). Plenty of offices have core hours starting before 9 and ending after 3. Some jobs require specific shifts (e.g. any law enforcement or customer facing job).

Shift work is perfect. No care or very little care needed.

I didn’t say everyone can do that but many feds do. The vast majority of feds and contractors who work at fed agencies. Also many time IT staff work shortened day and do upgrades after hours.

People who are doing research don’t need to read and write 9-5.

I agree don’t work for DOD.

Our core hours are 10-2.

If this is accurate, you’ll never get promoted or mange anyone. Working four hours a day is ripping off taxpayers and it’s lazy. I’m a fed and there’s no way this would fly at my agency or with me if I was your manager. Whatever you think you’re proving here about childcare you’re not. You’re just making feds look like they take advantage of WFH.

They never said the ONLY worked 10-2, but that those were their core hours. It's so hard to argue with stupid.

Why is this so confusing for you? 80% of employees adults work in office and 10% are hybrid and 10% are remote. And only 18-26% of workers are shift workers. You and your husband are NOT representative of most people who work. The fact that you think your lifestyle is appealing (it seems like you never see each other and drag all your kids around because you are never together) or normal speaks to your ignorance.

Not everyone has the option to flex their work schedule let alone flex it to accommodate their spouse’s schedule. Get out of your bubble and stop posting the same thing again and again.

It's very easy to have 1 parent do morning routine so the other can be home when the kids are done with school. That's not shift work.

[Anonymous]

I assume the person saying is it either an idiot or insecure or maybe both.

It’s a rude thing to say.

I personally dislike spending large amounts of time with young kids. I love my kids but don’t want to spend all day playing legos and sitting at a playground. I didn’t do this stuff as an adult pre-kids and don’t want to do it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what I'm going to start saying, "I married rich so that I could stay home with my kids. You could have too. So stop complaining."

It's the truth.

Can't wait for Karma to come bite you in the a$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A question for working moms: if you ask a non-working mom "what do you do?" what do you prefer she says? Is there any response we could give that you would approve of? Just curious.

I work at home. I stay at home with my kids. Whatever.

Are you too dim to see the difference between WHAT someone does and WHY they do it?

I've never heard someone asked why they work or stay at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question for working moms: if you ask a non-working mom "what do you do?" what do you prefer she says? Is there any response we could give that you would approve of? Just curious.

This here tells me how insecure you are in your choice. I don't give a crap what you say as long as you don't imply that you are in some way superior to me because you're not, we just made different choices.

END THREAD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we shift this a little? SAHMs, why are you so embarrassed about being a SAHM? Why are you ashamed to say "I don't work"? Why do you feel like you need to say "I'm the CEO of my household", "I am caregiver to my children", etc.? It's FINE that you don't work. It's just a choice that you made. You don't need to justify it. Just like I don't need to justify to you why I work.

I don’t know any SAHM who talks like that. When my kids were little I said “I stay home with the kids.” Once they hit middle school, I changed it to “I don’t work.” I’m not remotely embarrassed. If anything I’m a little self conscious that we are living just as nice a life as our neighbors on one income instead of two.

You are insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the main reasons I was grateful to sahm is that I could encourage much more risk from a young age. If I were a nanny I would never feel comfortable allowing so much intense climbing, exploring out of my sight, etc. It always made me nervous but I think it’s one of the best things I did and I wish I’d had that as a kid so I could be more confident in my body.

The nannies I knew were caring and committed but their charges weren’t allowed to play with sticks, jump from rocks or even go into the sandbox half the time. Most were borderline hypochondriacs and passed that to the kids. I can only imagine the level of control in a daycare setting with high ratios. It’s not good for kids when the constant message is “be careful” and everything is padded for your protection.

I would never say this to a wohm friend since it’s rude and there’s no point. But there are many areas like this where a sahp can make a difference.

Interesting take. I’m a SAHM and I find kids with nannies often take more risks (at the playground at least) because the nannies often aren’t paying close attention.

Yes. SAHMs are always attentive to the children but nannies aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. It’s not meant to be offensive. If you find it so, that’s on you. I was an elementary and middle school teacher for several years, and now I want to raise my own kids. There’s simply no other “truth” or way to say it. I absolutely don’t want someone else raising my kids. I would never dream of it.

The last few months alone have been magical. We did things like planting, growing and harvesting several bushels of vegetables in our raised garden beds — which we built ourselves. (Our freezers are full of tomato sauces and pestos we made from scratch!) The very idea of my kids missing out on that kind of childhood makes me want to cry.

Well thank goodness all the teachers and doctors and nurses you have encountered were able to make pesto on the weekends with their kids so they could help care for yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the main reasons I was grateful to sahm is that I could encourage much more risk from a young age. If I were a nanny I would never feel comfortable allowing so much intense climbing, exploring out of my sight, etc. It always made me nervous but I think it’s one of the best things I did and I wish I’d had that as a kid so I could be more confident in my body.

The nannies I knew were caring and committed but their charges weren’t allowed to play with sticks, jump from rocks or even go into the sandbox half the time. Most were borderline hypochondriacs and passed that to the kids. I can only imagine the level of control in a daycare setting with high ratios. It’s not good for kids when the constant message is “be careful” and everything is padded for your protection.

I would never say this to a wohm friend since it’s rude and there’s no point. But there are many areas like this where a sahp can make a difference.

Interesting take. I’m a SAHM and I find kids with nannies often take more risks (at the playground at least) because the nannies often aren’t paying close attention.

Yes. SAHMs are always attentive to the children but nannies aren't.

SAHM gave a ton of tasks to do besides care for their child and are distracted by all of that. Nannies only watch the children… less distracted.

But yes Nannies are more trained and helicopter less to allow kids to learn from
Play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom went back to work full time when I was less than two months old. My dad also worked full time. I had a combinations of nannies and then preschool before starting elementary school. It would never occur to me to say that I was raised by anyone besides my parents.

That's a pretty rude attitude toward child care providers.

and teachers... clearly your children are being "raised" by teachers.

They are. It’s why schools are so important.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

This is why many people can't just get a job once their child is school age. It's cheaper and less stress to just have one parent on-call for all the p.i.t.a. kid related issues, especially if the other parent is a high earner. If we both worked, we have literally nobody to cover all the days when kids aren't in school and need care at home. I don't care who looks down on it. Half the families at my school have a SAHP because they have the same problem. Preschool is so few hours during the week we skipped it for all the children and just taught them to read and write and do math at home before they started K, also saved a lot of money there.

Before I had kids and was working, I didn't really feel I was doing anything all that important. So many of these jobs that people think are high status will be replaced by automation and AI. Might as well raise your kids and let the status obsessed folks do their thing.

And yet tons of working parents have figured out how to work and be able to care for their kids on sick days, etc. Sorry you couldn't, but that doesn't mean others can't.

Tons of parents have figured out how to care for their kids without needing two incomes. Sorry you couldn’t, but that doesn’t mean others can’t.

and tons of parents have decided that having a mom and dad is important instead of having just a mom and a dad who works so much he doesn't know how to parent and is never there to do so.

You really can’t fathom a family living off the income provided by a single full time job (ie 40 hours per week)?