Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

Good for Loudoun county. I’m a little shocked that they follow the science more than Montgomery County

Exactly, baffled at reading that.

I know! They're into astrological science and biorhythms too. MCPS relies too heavily on parenting which should be the county's job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)

In olden times, before devices, kids were able to get up at dawn to work along with their parents when we were more agrarian. The "science" is mostly a sham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)

In olden times, before devices, kids were able to get up at dawn to work along with their parents when we were more agrarian. The "science" is mostly a sham.

Shame on us humans for learning more, doing more science, becoming more knowledgeable than the "olden times"!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)

In olden times, before devices, kids were able to get up at dawn to work along with their parents when we were more agrarian. The "science" is mostly a sham.

Shame on us humans for learning more, doing more science, becoming more knowledgeable than the "olden times"!!!

Shame on us for embracing bad pseudo science because it's convenient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

Good for Loudoun county. I’m a little shocked that they follow the science more than Montgomery County

Exactly, baffled at reading that.

I know! They're into astrological science and biorhythms too. MCPS relies too heavily on parenting which should be the county's job.

haha, so true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)

In olden times, before devices, kids were able to get up at dawn to work along with their parents when we were more agrarian. The "science" is mostly a sham.

Shame on us humans for learning more, doing more science, becoming more knowledgeable than the "olden times"!!!

Shame on us for embracing bad pseudo science because it's convenient.

Shame on you as a parent to keep things same for your convenience against the best interest of your teen (if you are even a parent!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)

In olden times, before devices, kids were able to get up at dawn to work along with their parents when we were more agrarian. The "science" is mostly a sham.

Shame on us humans for learning more, doing more science, becoming more knowledgeable than the "olden times"!!!

Shame on us for embracing bad pseudo science because it's convenient.

Seriously. How many times has so-called research steered us down bad paths that went against common sense, only for us to do later research that reveals the research we were relying on was flawed or biased?

That's precisely how we lost decades moving away from phonics in reading instruction for elementary kids at the behest of alleged experts like Lucy Calkins, only to now return to it after reading proficiency levels plummeted and it turns out her theories were a crock of BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

If the advocates get their way and push back start times and we inevitably will see no improvement in student wellbeing because they're continuing to stay up on their devices, they'll act like this never could have been foreseen by anyone.

And yet study after study shows an overall improvement in student wellbeing with later high school start times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

If the advocates get their way and push back start times and we inevitably will see no improvement in student wellbeing because they're continuing to stay up on their devices, they'll act like this never could have been foreseen by anyone.

And yet study after study shows an overall improvement in student wellbeing with later high school start times.

Study after study SUGGESTS improvement in well-being. Even the studies posted to this thread admit the data isn’t conclusive. I checked.

Also lost in this thread are the other realistic considerations like childcare needs, after school jobs, sports schedules, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)

In olden times, before devices, kids were able to get up at dawn to work along with their parents when we were more agrarian. The "science" is mostly a sham.

Shame on us humans for learning more, doing more science, becoming more knowledgeable than the "olden times"!!!

Shame on us for embracing bad pseudo science because it's convenient.

Shame on you as a parent to keep things same for your convenience against the best interest of your teen (if you are even a parent!).

I get it that some parents have a tough time parenting but this fake science claim is just silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

If the advocates get their way and push back start times and we inevitably will see no improvement in student wellbeing because they're continuing to stay up on their devices, they'll act like this never could have been foreseen by anyone.

And yet study after study shows an overall improvement in student wellbeing with later high school start times.

The cool thing is if you just set your clocks ahead 2 hours they get the same benefits!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

If the advocates get their way and push back start times and we inevitably will see no improvement in student wellbeing because they're continuing to stay up on their devices, they'll act like this never could have been foreseen by anyone.

And yet study after study shows an overall improvement in student wellbeing with later high school start times.

The cool thing is if you just set your clocks ahead 2 hours they get the same benefits!

That wasn’t funny the first 20 times I was posted in this thread. Now it’s just pathetic.

[Anonymous]

The poster claiming the science is fake was probably asleep in their high school science class and didn’t learn much science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The poster claiming the science is fake was probably asleep in their high school science class and didn’t learn much science

Help me out. Am I the poster who claims the science is fake? I posted above that the studies submitted to this very thread *suggest* that there *may* be a correlation between a later start time and teen well being. These studies (posted by somebody in support of later times) also point to the same variables others have brought up, like late-night device usage.

I know it’s sometimes fun to insult others, but it isn’t very productive.

[Anonymous]

ipetitions.com/petition/mcps-board-and-superintendent-please-wake-up-to#comments