Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

Good for Loudoun county. I’m a little shocked that they follow the science more than Montgomery County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

Good for Loudoun county. I’m a little shocked that they follow the science more than Montgomery County

Exactly, baffled at reading that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

Good for Loudoun county. I’m a little shocked that they follow the science more than Montgomery County

Great all the lazy parents can move to Loudoun with their lazy phone addicted teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

You might like it, but not everyone in LCPS is happy with the late start times:

SOURCE: https://thevikingnews.com/5575/opinions/editorials/lcpss-bell-schedule-is-a-colossal-mess-but-it-doesnt-have-to-be/

In theory, this schedule sounds perfect: start times are spread out, allowing traffic to dissipate between rush hours, bus drivers are given the opportunity to navigate their routes comfortably and better attendance is promoted among older demographics.

However, when put into action, the new timetable isn’t so great.

From a high school perspective, a start time of 9:30 a.m. and an end time of 4:20 p.m. aren’t ideal. Although the seven hours of learning in between are necessary, school hours akin to a 9-to-5 job don’t work for most kids.

In the hours before school begins, there seems to be an awkward dynamic: students have excess time, but just barely enough to accomplish anything substantial. Although some appreciate the time in the morning that can be spent sleeping, the overall sentiment students reflect is frustration with such a late start. Ultimately, after the last bell, high schoolers find themselves with a very limited number of hours to spend.

Transportation also manages to eat up lots of the evening for students and teachers, whether they are drivers or bus riders, with some arriving home as late as 7 p.m. after navigating chaotic parking lots and traffic.

Those who participate in extracurriculars are also challenged with late nights, as practices and clubs start and end late. Winter Guard members have practice from 7 to 10 p.m., sometimes even later. Students and administrators staying this late at school poses transportation risks, as there can be lighting and safety issues during the dark after school hours. Even those who might not have extra commitments find it difficult to accomplish every necessary task and assignment after school.

The cycle is vicious, with late nights taking a toll on the sleep, social and mental health patterns of those within Loudoun this year.

SOURCE: https://www.loudounnow.com/news/earlier-elementary-school-start-times-have-parents-upset-more-tardies-reported/article_8b13840e-262c-11ee-80d4-6b60a01b3b60.html

Last year, Loudoun County Public Schools adopted staggered start times in all its schools, but parents with elementary aged children whose start times changed to 20 minutes earlier want it changed back.

“It’s just early too early of a start time, and in the winter months we have kids standing on a street corner in the pitch black because it’s before the sun rises,” said Sean Kaine, a Leesburg father of two elementary aged children. “It’s more than an inconvenience. You can see the impact it has on their sleep and awareness throughout the day.”

The start time of the elementary school Kaine’s children attended last year was one of 29 that changed from 7:50 a.m. to 7:30 a.m., with classes ending at 2:15 p.m.

Kaine said the 20 minutes makes a big difference in the morning with little ones, and said his kids were waking up before 6 a.m.

The division announced the sweeping changes to school start and end times in January 2022. In addition to 29 schools starting earlier, 30 elementary schools shifted to a later start time of 8 a.m., with dismissal at 2:45 p.m. Middle and high schools also saw start and dismissal times change, with high schools starting at 9:30 a.m.

The change was rooted in a bus driver shortage. Administrators said the changes would cut the number of second runs to schools, result in fewer delays and a more reliable schedule for students and their families. They also said in the announcement at the time that the proximity of schools to one another, the size of the area being served, and traffic patterns were determining factors in the time adjustments.

In contrast, elementary schools in both Fairfax and Prince William counties start between 8:30 and 9:20 a.m.

The adjustment for families coping with earlier start times have not gone smoothly.

[Anonymous]

Good for LoCo. This is MCPS. Time for a reassessment!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

If the advocates get their way and push back start times and we inevitably will see no improvement in student wellbeing because they're continuing to stay up on their devices, they'll act like this never could have been foreseen by anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

That’s on you as a parent to send them to bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good for LoCo. This is MCPS. Time for a reassessment!

Ignore the warning signs and mistakes of others at your own peril.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is your ideal solution? MCPS will not consider buying more buses.

This debate happened sometime in 2016/17/18? At the time, I had hoped they would swap ES and HS (have ES start earlier and HS start later), but, it was basically a complete non-starter to switch ES to an early start and HS to a late start and keep MS the same. It was considered an equity issue then.

After much time and $ was spent exploring options they pushed back HS start times a very small amount (15 minutes maybe). It was a joke of a solution.

Also, there is no way the school board is going to address start times again when we are embroiled in a leadership struggle.

It also cost more than 15mil of the school budget just to research and increase the time by 20min. Such a waste.

I have high schoolers. Their fine. And they play sports and I want them home by dinner. Not 8pm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PG County Public Schools just voted to shift to the later start times this group is advocating for. So we'll get a front row seat to see how that works. If it's successful, then I suspect MCPS will follow suit. But if it's a debacle, then it'll set this movement back for some time.

You already have a test case in the region: Loudoun County. ES starts at 8:00, HS starts at 9:30. We love it.

That's the way of the future.

For Loudon perhaps but MCPS already found the best path forward for our needs. I'm sorry. I know parenting kids is hard.

We know it's hard for you to try to think of ways to actually give your child better, and while you think what you are doing is parenting is actually wanting to keep things the same for your convenience. You are not parenting. Sorry for your kids.

DP. I’m confused. Parents who are able to enforce bedtimes by restricting devices, etc, are somehow not parenting? 10pm still gives my child over 8 hours of sleep a night. We’re doing just fine.

I worry more about my students who are emailing me at midnight and 2am. Do you really think changing start times is going to miraculously get kids 8+ hours of sleep? No.

This is such a nonissue. If you aren’t going to talk to me about regulating device usage in the evenings and into the early hours of the morning, then the conversation about start times is pointless.

Get kids off devices and they’ll sleep. Done. I suspect even the “sleep experts” here will agree that getting rid of devices in the evening will help.

As others have pointed out, when you were a teen in ancient times and did not have devices, teens also did not sleep at 10pm. Maybe you were the only teen to do so. Sorry you don't believe in science.

The “sorry you don’t believe in science” nonsense throughout this thread just encourages eyerolls.

I believe teens need a lot of sleep. I don’t believe that it has to be specific, later hours.

What does Science say about device usage, huh? Would Science agree with me that device usage at night discourages sleep? I’m pretty darn sure it does. Why isn’t that a MAJOR part of this conversation? If we don’t tackle this, it’s not worth discussing later hours. What a colossal waste of time.

We know you don’t believe that, but the data collected by sleep experts says otherwise. Your intuition should not dictate policy.

Again: you didn’t bother to address device usage. The sleep experts you love to quote have also weighed in on that! I know addressing devices is inconvenient for you, but that is the bigger issue if we actually care about adolescents’ sleeping habits.

So don’t go quoting sleep experts if you aren’t going to quote what they also say: that device usage in the evening and at night is bad for sleep habits. If kids are up at 2am texting ANYWAY, your later start time doesn’t do much good.

I put the part of your post that I was responding to in bold. It wasn’t about devices.

Why aren’t you addressing the fact that teenagers didn’t go to sleep early even when there were no personal devices?

Because in my experience taking care of devices (parenting) is all that’s needed to get my own teenagers asleep at a reasonable hour.

But I’ll humor you. I just did 5-7 minutes of online perusing to see if I could find any evidence of your historic late nights. All I found were references that people started staying up later because of artificial light, which drove activities later into the evening. You know… artificial light that comes from technology. So it sure seems that taking away technology would go a long way to supporting healthy sleep.

(I did find multiple sources that suggested “ancient times” people actually slept in 2 shifts, usually from 9-midnight and again from 1-morning. This is apparently referenced in multiple Greek texts. Seems they were falling asleep at 9 in Ancient Greece without a problem.)