Ukrainian victory over Russia is inevitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

Is this sarcasm? Ukraine used to be called "the breadbasket of Europe."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

Is this sarcasm? Ukraine used to be called "the breadbasket of Europe."

Within the context of Ukraine being the most industrialized part of the USSR at the point of its breakdown, the shift to a primarily agricultural nation is not a compliment you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

Massive gas deposits in the black sea and a huge base of tech savvy computer nerds with decent english and low wage demands. Ukraine will do very well if they can get their orc infestation under control. They are the new Israel.

I don't know if the last line is the compliment that you think it is. But Zelensky's admiration of Bibi's heavyhanded policy over his opponents has long been known.

I'm talking about Israel's homegrown tech and defense industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Best outsourced programmers in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Best outsourced programmers in the world.

LOL one hell of a metric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Best outsourced programmers in the world.

It's actually funny that people were worried about Russia engaging in a massive cyberwarfare effort as part of this war... except it turned out that Russia's best and brightest cyber people were actually Ukrainians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Poland makes the best vodka and pierogies in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

How about the Antonov Mriya - one of the largest aircraft ever built? Or how about the fact that the Russian navy is falling apart, because they no longer have Ukrainian naval experts to fix and design their ships?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: Ukrainians are allowed one last major battle, then forced to negotiate. After that, a slow and steady guerrilla war is fought while there is some semblance of pause in this conflict, Israeli-Palestinian style.
Russia is still under sanctions though some od them are quietly not enforced or even cancelled. Ukraine gets weapons but only those enough to stop the Russians from advancing.
Russia continues deteriorating under sanctions, while Ukraine is more or less stabilized but never reaches its former economic indicators.
It goes on for decades.

Ukraine never really had much going on for them economically to begin with.

If Ukraine can sever ties with Russia and Russian oligarchs and Russian interference and straighten up their financial institutions, investment from the West would pour into their economy. It is a big country with resources and natural trading partners in the EU.

This is magical thinking. Ukraine's economic integration with EU benefits primarily the EU, who love cheap goods and low wages. It is not designed to benefit Ukraine. Europeans don't want extra competitors and apart from slogans, do not really see Ukrainians as peers.

Um, no. The “Europeans” you refer to are the French and Germans, who likely do not see the Ukrainians as peers; that is true.

But the center of European political and economic power has, and will continue, to shift away from Paris and Berlin.

Further, Poland - a traditional cultural enemy of Ukraine - has become Ukraine’s chief backer and ally. A Polish-Ukrainian-Czech alliance would soon overshadow the lynchpin: France and Germany. Ukraine has astounding natural resources and on top of that, it was always the technological brain-trust of the USSR; their nuclear weapons and advanced systems were once made there. Their flagship - the Moskva- was built by Ukraine, and sunk by an advanced Ukrainian nuptune ASM.

Ukraine will become a member of the EU and NATO. Whether Russia breaks up in a civil war among rival oligarchs remains to be seen.

If that were true, Ukraine would not have become a primarily agrarian nation post-USSR breakup.

Without wishing to hurt the feeling of the world' top producer of pickled cucumbers, "Poland" and "economic power" has rarely been mentioned in the same sentence and it is not clear why it would, when Poland's products and services aren't entering or dominating new markets.

Ukraine has excellent software developers, engineers, and are leaders in many areas of technology and manufacturing such as aerospace and shipbuilding.

Leaders in what field? Please explain with numbers of market capitalization. Or maybe name one area of technology and manufacturing in which Ukraine is a world leader.

Pretty much anything good that the Soviet Union and Russian Federation ever designed and built came from Ukraine.

So why is Ukraine known as a primarily agrarian nation?

I mean name one Ukrainian non-agri export.