Staff attorney at big law firm
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Anonymous
| Anyone have experience in this role and can tell me what it's been like for you? Firm has been very clear this is not a document review position but rather will be returning to the kind of substantive work I was doing before (I was a big law associate previously and took five years off when my kids were young, position would be rejoining people I worked with before). I'm aware that the odds of moving out of a staff attorney role into an associate/partner track role are very slim (although firm swears it's not off the table). The firm is selling me on the position as being very flexible with predictable hours (basically 9-5 without the expectation of nights/weekends unless I choose an alternative schedule that includes some evening/weekends), how likely is that to hold true? |
Anonymous
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I did this. The good: decent pay, good firm name on your resume, started out adhering to the limited hours promise, and I got in good with a partner and got back on associate track by lateraling with his group to another firm.
The bad: you'll make less than a first year with much more experience, your job is less secure than an associates, and the second the firm's numbers don't look good they act like you were supposed to be meeting associate billing requirements the whole time (promises notwithstanding). Most people don't ever leave that position, and at my new firm the staff attorneys haven't had even a COLA in 6 years, so they make less each year. |
Anonymous
| It really depends on the firm. At my current firm, there is absolutely no career path from staff attorney to another position in the firm, and staff attorneys perform document review. As PP said, you'll make less than a first year with much more experience and, at my firm anyway, could be reporting to a brand new associate, depending on the assignment. |
Anonymous
| Thanks for the feedback. The salary issue doesn't concern me (not that I'd say that to them) because we don't need my salary, I'd be going back because I miss practicing law. The firm approached me with this staff attorney offer after I turned down an offer to return as an associate last year because an associate position wouldn't offer me the scheduling predictability/flexibility I was looking for, so I feel pretty comfortable that they're not undervaluing me/my skills. It sounds like the group is very busy, though, so I'm concerned that regardless of what they're promising now, once I've started there will be pressure to increase my working hours to more closely resemble an associate's. |
Anonymous
| You're barely going to be practicing law as a staff attorney. You're going to get the worst work, including most likely doc review, regardless of what they tell you. |
Anonymous
I'd go back and try to negotiate a PT associate position rather than accept the staff attorney offer. Better for your resume; if they've already offered you an associate position and need the help for a busy practice group it shouldn't be a hard sell; and your hours requirements will be explicitly spelled out, not just "predictable hours." |
Anonymous
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If as you say you don't need the money, then if you start the position and it ends up not what you want then you can quit and walk away. Or you can then start looking elsewhere for something that's not in a law firm setting. I think that if you want to work, then you have to start with what you get and then move around or to someplace new. It's important to have the work experience on your resume.
But I do like the above poster's suggestion on approaching them with a suggestion to be a part time associate. |
Anonymous
I was a part-time associate before I left five years ago. I left because even though I was technically part-time, there was a lot of pressure to work full-time hours, including late nights and weekends, when the workload demanded it. That’s what I’m trying to avoid this time. |
Anonymous
Was this at the same firm? If you were getting that pressure with a delineated PT hours commitment and associate in your title, it will DEFINITELY be worse as a staff attorney with amorphous "predictable hours" promises and as the lowest person on the totem pole. |
Anonymous
| If you truly don't need the money, I guess there is no harm in taking it. Whenever i consider job opportunities, I ask myself "where do I go from here?" Most staff attorney jobs are dead end positions, with little job security. If you ever want to go in-house or to the government, you will have a much harder time selling yourself as a staff attorney, since you will be competing against tons of firm associates and counsel. Personally I agree with the recommendations to try and negotiate a part-time associate position. If it ends up blowing up into a full time associate position, you can always quit since you don't need the money, but the associate position will pave the way to much better future opportunities than a staff attorney position. |
Anonymous
Same firm, but the people who gave me grief previously have left. However, I have friends who have also done the part-time associate thing at other firms, and had the same experience. This is why I'm looking for people who have worked in staff attorney positions at big law firms to find out their actual experience. |
Anonymous
And I am that person. I'm telling you you'll have much less ability to push back against unreasonable expectations in a position where you are less respected as a rule and the hours requirements were never explicitly spelled out to begin with. |
Anonymous
Not OP, but this seems weird in OP’s situation. These people she worked with before want her back badly enough they’re making her a second offer, and think that even though she already turned down the associate offer due to the hours expectations they can now give her less money and prestige than their previous offer while still making the same hourly demands and she won’t quit over it? That would be extremely irrational behavior. |
Anonymous
She absolutely will quit over it, that's not the point. The point is a p/t associate has a numerical hours requirement going in, and this same firm ignored it, and she quit. Now she's thinking about taking a worse job with no explicit hours understanding at the same firm, and wondering if it will protect her from the unreasonable hours demands they made on her as a p/t associate. It won't. You are right that she can then walk away, but there's no upside to her taking a worse job with worse legal work that looks worse on her resume for even less protection against the one thing she says matters: limiting her hours. |
Anonymous
| Staff attorney positions look bad. I'd try to get a part time associate title with clear hours and a written promise that you will be compensated for any hours that go over that ceiling. |