Staff attorney at big law firm

[Anonymous]

Bad to who?
OP--I am a staff attorney at a big law firm and the lifestyle it affords me is invaluable. I dont give a fuq who thinks what of me because those who know my work, know what I am capable of and I know these skills will translate on a resume. Yes, you dont get salary raises and yes, COL are not a thing but Im bonus eligible and the bonuses are generous. Again, the flexibility (im a mom of young kids) is worth so much. I can work from home, go in late, leave early, not work weekends, work weekends--it's all good. But again, i had to put in some time to prove myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She absolutely will quit over it, that's not the point. The point is a p/t associate has a numerical hours requirement going in, and this same firm ignored it, and she quit. Now she's thinking about taking a worse job with no explicit hours understanding at the same firm, and wondering if it will protect her from the unreasonable hours demands they made on her as a p/t associate. It won't. You are right that she can then walk away, but there's no upside to her taking a worse job with worse legal work that looks worse on her resume for even less protection against the one thing she says matters: limiting her hours.

OP here. As I said in my first post, we have discussed both the hours expectations for the job and the nature of the work I would be doing (e.g., we've discussed which of my prior client contacts they're still working with and want to put me back in front of, which is why it seems unlikely this will be a doc review position). I'm wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation and how it worked out for them. It doesn't sound like you went into your staff attorney position with a similar understanding, which doesn't mean your experience is irrelevant, but it may be different from my situation.

As for an associate position, the hours expectation for associates is a minimum, not a cap, and big law associates are expected to work in excess of that minimum if work flow demands it. This was the issue with my previous associate position -- there was more work than could be done in just my part-time hours minimum and I was expected to work more as a result, which wasn't unreasonable since I was still technically partner-track. They didn't ignore anything about my part-time status, that was just the nature of the job and it didn't work for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bad to who?
OP--I am a staff attorney at a big law firm and the lifestyle it affords me is invaluable. I dont give a fuq who thinks what of me because those who know my work, know what I am capable of and I know these skills will translate on a resume. Yes, you dont get salary raises and yes, COL are not a thing but Im bonus eligible and the bonuses are generous. Again, the flexibility (im a mom of young kids) is worth so much. I can work from home, go in late, leave early, not work weekends, work weekends--it's all good. But again, i had to put in some time to prove myself.

Thank you for sharing this, this is how I'm hoping it will work out.

[Anonymous]

Don't do it. I think it could be a career killer in your case. Have associate on your resume followed by staff attorney would be a huge red flag. It looks like a major demotion or like you couldn't cut it as an associate. I absolutely would not do this.

[Anonymous]

I think it makes a difference when you are going back as a known quantity. I did this and I was back on the partnership track after a year. But if this is not what you want, think long and hard because the pressure to put in the hours is definitely there.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to offer a different perspective. I don't have staff attorney experience (did interview for one position many years ago), but can you look at this as a way to launch to something else with even more control in 3-5 years?

I have a friend who practiced for a long time, had to be close to partner. she had two kids and needed a more flexible schedule. She was in the same field of law her whole career and then got a specialization with the State Bar.

She hung up her own shingle as a specialist in that area and now works for BigLaw firms on a contract basis. She does motions, hearings, etc. She had lots of contacts from practicing in her specialty and was somewhat active in the Bar, etc.

Over time, the offer you are describing turns into one of two things: 1) you're an associate in all but name and pay with the corresponding hours and responsibility; or 2) you will eventually be turned into the staff attorney doing staff attorney work as the associates/young partners take the sexy stuff and leave you with the rest.

I'd think of this as a springboard, not a landing zone.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why you're pushing back so hard on the suggestion to go back as a part time associate. You have the negotiating leverage so negotiate the same terms as you'd want as a staff attorney, but with the PT associate label which will not kill your career in the same way.

[Anonymous]

If you don’t care about the money and don’t care about ever advancing in your career but just want to keep your hand in and do some interesting work, staff attorney is great. That’s what I did while my kids were growing up. I wouldn’t trade the flexibility for anything. Trying to ramp up as the kids have gotten older has proved a challenge, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t care about the money and don’t care about ever advancing in your career but just want to keep your hand in and do some interesting work, staff attorney is great. That’s what I did while my kids were growing up. I wouldn’t trade the flexibility for anything. Trying to ramp up as the kids have gotten older has proved a challenge, however.

This is true. There is a long-term cost to accepting a lower position for the schedule flexibility it provides.

If OP is going to do this, she needs to set herself up for success down the road that is not dependent on her role with the firm. Put differently, OP needs to do all of the things that an up-and-coming associate is doing (e.g., write articles, public speaking, etc...), albeit in a reduced way while the kiddos are still young. The idea is for the OP to (re)establish a professional reputation as an expert in her specialty. Clients don't care if you work part-time or have a flexible schedule if they need your help. The same goes for other law firms when it comes time to jump into a Counsel or Partner role at the firm (or another firm). OP should keep a clear record of her "value proposition" and a list of services she can provide to clients.

[Anonymous]

Some firms treat staff attorneys horribly, completely toxic environments. You’ll either review docs or manage people reviewing docs

[Anonymous]

They're not going to put a "staff attorney" in front of clients, OP. This is a fact of law firm life. Ask for a different title and learn to live with it or you will be relegated to doc review and menial paralegal tasks for life.

[Anonymous]

Why not ask for an of counsel title?

[Anonymous]

The problem is it is very hard to get both good, substantive work and limited and/or predictable hours. If they are counting on you for certain types of work, it is going to be a problem if you have to leave at 3, can't travel, etc. If you are willing to do more menial tasks, it is often easier to get flexibility.

That's one of the main reasons PT associates often don't work well. I'm not sure why the different title would help on that front if you are doing associate caliber work.

[Anonymous]

I also used to work as an associate at a big firm, took five years off to have kids and start to raise them, and am now working as a staff attorney at a (different) medium sized firm. While I started off doing and supervising doc review, I am now not doing that at all but supervising a small team of staff attorneys draft routine filings.

I ... actually really like my job? I know what I'm doing and I know how to do it, and I'm good at it. It's not doc review and it's challenging.

I agree that as a staff attorney I am in the lower caste of attorney respect at the firm, but at the same time, maybe different firms treat staff attorneys differently? We get raises and promotions. I feel like I have been treated really well.

I still struggle with work life balance and probably work more than I should, but I also sometimes leave work at 3pm or don't come in until 11 if my son has an appointment. This is the flexibility I needed I never had as an associate. And I don't have to travel.

Maybe I will regret this 5-10 years down the line and will wish I had held out for another associate or similar position, but after being out of the game for 5 years, staff attorney life has really worked out for me so far.

You will know better than anyone on this board how your old firm treated you and how it treats its staff attorneys. Best of luck to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is it is very hard to get both good, substantive work and limited and/or predictable hours. If they are counting on you for certain types of work, it is going to be a problem if you have to leave at 3, can't travel, etc. If you are willing to do more menial tasks, it is often easier to get flexibility.

That's one of the main reasons PT associates often don't work well. I'm not sure why the different title would help on that front if you are doing associate caliber work.

Seriously this! If you want the flexibility predictably or not have to travel, plus you don’t need the $, become a staff attorney that does doc review. I’ve done both (though full disclosure, I did doc review because I could not get back on the associate track). If you’re doing associate work, the firm is going to pressure you to get the work done regardless of you staff attorney position having a weekly or monthly hour cap. The firm wants you badly because they need the work done. What makes you think they will refrain from pressuring you to make the client happy? Even if they put it in writing and you choose to only put in the contracted hours, the work will continue to pile up and you’ll feel internal pressure to get it done. Associates are trained to please and work extremely hard. It won’t sit right with you if you don’t get the work done even if it goes over your hours limit.