Sidwell College Admissions This Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

This post should be pinned and mandatory reading for every current junior and sophomore high school family. Thank you.

I think this approach is a great one on paper. However, the schools that accept over 50% of applicants are not the schools that these kids or their parents are excited to attend. Not many of these parents want their kid going to Auburn. Oh wait, Auburn isn’t a good example since their admission rate dropped to 24% this year! What is a school with a 50% admit rate that these high achieving, 34 ACT kids are excited to attend? It is really hard to find one.

University of Vermont (if they like small cities), Pitt (if they want larger cities), Penn State (if they want football), Muhlenberg (if they prefer SLACs)...there are thousands of colleges in this country. The point is that people need to think beyond the 50 that USNews has deemed "best" to what is acceptable.

It is not fair to expect folks to be happy to go to Vermont and such after an elite education like at Sidwell.

You're joking, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

Agreed. There are some (or one?) STEM-focused parents of Sidwell seniors on here who keep talking about the advanced math and science tracks and bang on about how they are the sine qua non for admission to top colleges. It is inaccurate. It’s also dangerous, to the extent parents of younger kids at Sidwell believe it and try to force their kids into those tracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a Sidwell parent, but I understand that after 13 years of paying half a million dollars of tuition, parents expect more than settling for a college with greater than 50% acceptance rate. If you ask parents to adjust their expectations, you are basically telling them the money invested has been wasted. Why? Because they could have gone to a 50% acceptance rate college from a public school for free and save the tuition money for college.

There are some things that money just can’t buy. I suspect that schools have tightened their “doors” post-Varsity Blues, extending that to tactics like college counselors advocating on behalf of individual students, which basically does not happen in public schools at all.

tactics like college counselors advocating on behalf of individual students, which basically does not happen in public schools at all.

??? It doesn't happen in private schools either. No one who isn't an idiot thinks it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

Not just the top 30-50 schools...you can get a great education at hundreds of schools. I am an academic. I have taught at a top 20 university, a top 10 SLAC, and a public university in the 80-100 range. Kids can get amazing educations at any of these schools. The professors at all of these colleges are fantastic. The honors programs at state flagships are excellent. I'd argue that the research opportunities for undergraduates and the focus on teaching are better at the SLACs. There is a reason the US post-secondary system is the envy of the world, and it's not just because of HYP (where, by the way, I received my undergraduate degree and PhD). People need to get over the bumper stickers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

Agreed. There are some (or one?) STEM-focused parents of Sidwell seniors on here who keep talking about the advanced math and science tracks and bang on about how they are the sine qua non for admission to top colleges. It is inaccurate. It’s also dangerous, to the extent parents of younger kids at Sidwell believe it and try to force their kids into those tracks.

+1

That track is meant for kids who truly love numbers and math theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.

Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m lost as to what the CCO has to do with your child not getting into college.
I assume Sidwell parents are highly educated and capable of researching college admissions.

Did you feel out the common app with your child and honestly believe some magic was happening that you weren’t involved in that guaranteed their admission to every college they applied for?
Because, I’m thinking if you didn’t have the power to wil your child into Brown, the CCO sure didn’t either.

The role of a good CCO is to provide real advice and counseling, based on their knowledge of the student and also their knowledge and perspective as an inside expert at the school who has insight into all aspects of Sidwell's college placement process--an insight that parents, by definition, cannot and do not have on their own. Sidwell's CCO does not provide any of that meaningful advice and counseling.

Of course they're not going to will anyone's kid into a particular school. But there is a huge chasm between that absurd strawman you have created, and a CCO that is just pushing paper and making sure that deadlines are met (which is about all that Sidwell's office actually does).

They do this. It's just that many parents apparently don't want to or aren't willing to listen to what they are trying to tell you. and then fast forward a few months an you get a thread like this

No, they did not and do not do this. At least, our counselor did not. And it has already been discussed that there is a huge variance among the four counselors as to what they do. Also, I don’t know what you are talking about when you say “fast forward a few months.” Lots of parents have been consistently pointing out for months that the CCO is terrible and does not provide any advice or counseling. And before you accuse me of some sort of sour grapes complaining, let me tell you that my kid got in to their #1 choice. That was no thanks to the CCO though.

Last point: if the CCO is so great, why is the conventional wisdom among upper school parents that you need to hire a private counselor? I can’t even count how many 9th-11th grade parents there are who have told me that they have been advised this by parents of older kids or recent graduates.

I'm going to need an example of what you expected. As in, Larla goes into the office with you and hubby. She has a 3.7 at the end of the last trimester of her junior year. She's looking at the admissions process ahead. You and your hubby explain she wants to study chemistry in college and both you and hubby graduated from MIT.

What are your expectations of this CCO? Someone educate the parents of lesser private schools who don't have someone in this role.

CCO needs to explain that MIT is a reach+ that there is a 98 percent rejection rate, so even if it is a dream school, there is a hugh probability of not being accepted. And then, work through what it is about MIT the student likes. Is it Boston? Then there are 10 other schools in Boston to consider. is it Tech? Then there are scores of other Tech schools. Is it urban? Then look at other urban schools. Find the common thread and build a list from there. Rochester, GT, VT, Rensealler, Michigan, Illinois - there are a lot of fantastic places where you can get similar.

They. Do. This.

That you and your DC did not listen is no one's fault but your own.

DP. It has been established pretty persuasively that, at minimum, not all the counselors do this. Not sure why you are talking about fault....

If you would like to share actual facts about your DC’s experience with their particular counselor, rather than just make conclusory assertions, by all means have at it. I think many of us would love to hear how your experience differed from ours, and could be the basis for some feedback to the CCO.

Some one posted up thread what they would ask the CCO to do with the MIT applicant. What was outlined there was what the Sidwell CCO did with our student. So as I posted subsequently, if there is uneven service of messaging, that should be corrected. But the fact is, the CCO staff made it clear the challenges in the post COVID era for these colleges and universites, and to have a very broad list with a safety heavy mix.

If other parents didn't get the message *when the Director discussed it on open calls* then that isn't the CCO's fault. If an individual counselor didn't reaffirm the message, then sure. However, the person complaining the most about this also indicated their kid got into an ED school, so it is also clear that that particular parent didn't have the follow-on meetings in November and December that other families had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a Sidwell parent, but I understand that after 13 years of paying half a million dollars of tuition, parents expect more than settling for a college with greater than 50% acceptance rate. If you ask parents to adjust their expectations, you are basically telling them the money invested has been wasted. Why? Because they could have gone to a 50% acceptance rate college from a public school for free and save the tuition money for college.

+2 This is an anonymous forum, so I will be honest. I know I will get flamed, but here it is. Big3 parent. I can get excited about Wisconsin or Tulane, but sending my 34 ACT to Delaware or Elon is hard to take. Especially after spending $500k in private school.

NP here, in this vein I will add, I was a merit scholarship kid at a regional SLAC and I transferred because the school offered so few resources and the kids didn’t care about current events, reading or any of the things I cared about. They just wanted to drink (or the ones who didn’t were so much more socially awkward than I was). So I want to avoid that for my kid who is definitely smarter than me and even more sophisticated having grown up in DC. Because transferring, while absolutely the right thing to do, definitely closed off some avenues for me. I am sure there are great kids at small schools but my research failed me back in the day as I didn’t find them - or at least not enough to stay.

Well, a regional SLAC is usually below what people are talking about here--there are hundreds of small ranked national SLACs before you get to regional SLACs. If you go to a national SLAC within the top 100 you'll have plenty of good resources and supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

New to this thread..(at least since April surge)...the concerning part of admissions this year is that I hear of SOOO many students who are not accepted to these schools despite having great stats and activities. Maybe for yield protection? It feels very hard these days to feel confident in creating even a list of matches/safeties. Very much hoping that the CCO will be able to gain insight from what happened this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a Sidwell parent, but I understand that after 13 years of paying half a million dollars of tuition, parents expect more than settling for a college with greater than 50% acceptance rate. If you ask parents to adjust their expectations, you are basically telling them the money invested has been wasted. Why? Because they could have gone to a 50% acceptance rate college from a public school for free and save the tuition money for college.

There are some things that money just can’t buy. I suspect that schools have tightened their “doors” post-Varsity Blues, extending that to tactics like college counselors advocating on behalf of individual students, which basically does not happen in public schools at all.

tactics like college counselors advocating on behalf of individual students, which basically does not happen in public schools at all.

??? It doesn't happen in private schools either. No one who isn't an idiot thinks it does.

The CCO was very clear about this as well. They cannot and do not initiate contact with colleges on behalf of students. the AO's have WAY too much jam time to take calls from CCOs across the country. The CCO will however, talk about any applicant when an AO calls them. That is as much as the CCO can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

New to this thread..(at least since April surge)...the concerning part of admissions this year is that I hear of SOOO many students who are not accepted to these schools despite having great stats and activities. Maybe for yield protection? It feels very hard these days to feel confident in creating even a list of matches/safeties. Very much hoping that the CCO will be able to gain insight from what happened this year.

You still don’t get it, do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

New to this thread..(at least since April surge)...the concerning part of admissions this year is that I hear of SOOO many students who are not accepted to these schools despite having great stats and activities. Maybe for yield protection? It feels very hard these days to feel confident in creating even a list of matches/safeties. Very much hoping that the CCO will be able to gain insight from what happened this year.

Here is an example... The University of Wisconsin has long been seen as a fantastic "safety" for high stats kids. This year, not only did they delay notification for EA until the end of January, but they also waitlisted tens of thousands of applicants, admitting only a half the incoming class (plus yield) on EA, deferring the rest to the RD pool. Add to it, that kids with over 1500 and over 3.6 UW MCPS were part of the deferred or denied group. So all of the sudden, applicants in the 3.2-3.6 range with say 1450 are no longer shoe-ins there. That means applicants start having to look at - I am just making up names - Kansas, Clemson, Indiana, iowa etc for that 100% admission somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a high stats kid from another private school...our college counselors made it very, very clear that all bets are off for ANY college with acceptance rates <20%. Those schools cannot be counted on for any kid. They insisted that kids have at least 3 schools with acceptance rates over 50% and at least one had to have an acceptance rate over 60%. Other than that, kids were strongly encouraged to find at least 5-6 schools in the 20-50 percent range that they could really be happy at.

This seemed to work well when the advice was followed...the ones that ended up unhappy are those who disregarded the advice and just put in a couple of safeties and shotgun 20 plus applications for schools with <15% acceptance rates. These kids and their parents are now blaming the counselor for not doing more.

I'm not saying that is what is going on at Sidwell but it is certainly the case that people are upset that the process/outcomes were different that what they were 4-5 years ago and they didn't want to hear it.

New to this thread..(at least since April surge)...the concerning part of admissions this year is that I hear of SOOO many students who are not accepted to these schools despite having great stats and activities. Maybe for yield protection? It feels very hard these days to feel confident in creating even a list of matches/safeties. Very much hoping that the CCO will be able to gain insight from what happened this year.

You still don’t get it, do you?

I absolutely DO get it. I'm saying it's really hard for a high stats, good EC kid to feel ok even with a list that has a lot of 50%+ acceptance rate schools on it. Especially, if you want to keep the number of applications to something reasonable (10-12ish).

Personally, I'm ok with the changes going on in admissions at colleges. But I also recognize these changes affect the entire range of schools, not just the Ivys, or the T10, T30.

It's simply a fact that plenty of high stats kids do not get acceptances at schools that had high acceptance rates historically. As others have noted, it's a moving target if a school that used to have a 50% acceptance rate gets flooded with applications and is suddenly no longer anywhere close to being 50%.

The trickle down effect is real and even for families who "get it", it feels like a mine field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a hard message to deliver and I apologize in advance. A 3.7 just isn’t all that compelling and neither is a 34 ACT relatively speaking for top 15 universities even coming from a great school like Sidwell. If your kid isn’t a NMF and/or Presidential Scholar candidate and done some substantive internships or academic research outside of school, and hit > 3.9 overall GPA having taken the Math I — Math IV sequence plus all the accelerated 1A sciences plus four years of language, plus a >1560 SAT or 35/36 ACT, you really don’t get on the radar screen of the top 15 schools. Exception is the hooked kids — namely athletes, legacies and URM, but a couple of those hooked kids have the former qualifications, too, making them spectacularly attractive applicants. These schools really know Sidwell and for example understand that a solid A from Math III is a pretty powerful academic signal. I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. In the aggregate, they are doing a good job in a very challenging and competitive environment. The reality is, putting aside the “branding” element, the top 30 - 50 schools offer a great education. Sidwell parent of senior.

This is a bizarre expectation of any high school student, regardless of what high school they attend. My college student hasn’t had either of those yet, and not for lack of trying.

It is very hard for a regular kid to get those opportunities. But you have a contingent of kids whose parents are academics, doctors, researchers or C suite in Universities, who are able to access these ECs and stand out in college applications.

Ok, so I am a researcher at NIH and my boss calls and says there is a high school kid who wants an internship. What responsiblities am I seriously giving this kid, other than to clean test tubes and MAYBE prep some slides? It is ridiculous to think that I am putting my grant research or academic standing on the line for this.

Their names can go on research papers in some capacity. They get to shadow surgeons in niche specialities. They work in the medical labs of parent's friends. Just a few examples from my extended circle.

[Anonymous]

<<I just cannot sit by and continue to watch the Sidwell CCO get trashed the way it is by some folks on this forum. >>

This forum is not The Hague