It is easy to be good when it costs nothing

[Anonymous]

I just read a post about how a whole line full of people refused to let a sick, old lady get into the clinic early to get the shot. Now I don't know the specifics of this lady or that situation, but I think it triggered a strong reaction.

We are barely into the vaccination campaign, there is a bit of a shortage, and suddenly we are swiping left and right at each other. The community is now either evil line cutters or CDC priority list goody goody tattle-tales. The anti-vax people appear to have judiciously bowed out of the cat fight, content to let the other side eat it's own.

In tough situations (if you could even call it that), good people show charity toward one another. If we all resort to selfish behavior (both sides), we are all going to be the worse for it. I think we need to take H1N1 seriously, but when it's gone we shouldn't be ashamed of how we all behaved toward one another. Assume some good will. People may have good reasons for what they do. I have been to four sites to get DS vaccinated, and I have yet to get him the shot. I'm not thrilled, but we're not on a desert island fighting over the last cup of water, and I'm not going to behave like it is.

[Anonymous]

I'm not anti vax, but I am a little bit afraid of this vaccine and we space DS's out at his pediatrician's. We are high risk in that we are caretakers of an under 6 month old. We ARE nervous about h1n1, but I am nursing and don't want to load my son up with toxins. All that said, we are taking steps to keep him healthy (no day care, staying away from crowds, religious handwashing, etc).

So while we are eschewing the vax, for better or for worse, I am by no means "content to watch" this sad spectacle unfold. I have to hope that the post you are referencing is sarcasm or a troll. I want to believe that a crowd of humans would not really send a sick old lady "packing." Maybe it's the postpartum hormones, but the image of that makes me want to cry.

[Anonymous]

I kind of meant the anti-vax thing as a compliment. I could see a lot more ridicule coming from this group, given the poor behavior of many people seeking the vaccine. And I am one of that group. I hope the old lady incident was sarcasm, but if so it was very dry sarcasm.

[Anonymous]

Agree - not good humor in any case. Fear brings out a lot of ugliness in people. That's nothing new. We always want to think that a national tragedy will bring out love (like post 911) for our fellow man, but I think history bears out that this sort of brotherly love takes place only when we personally don't have much at risk. Plus, pack mentality (one person excludes the old lady so everyone else does the same) and group think happen very quickly. I guess folks like you need to lead by example, maybe speak up when you see something like this. Hard to do that with children in tow, though, because you never know what crazy person is going to let loose on you for speaking up. I'll be so glad when flu season is over, for so many reasons!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read a post about how a whole line full of people refused to let a sick, old lady get into the clinic early to get the shot. Now I don't know the specifics of this lady or that situation, but I think it triggered a strong reaction.

We are barely into the vaccination campaign, there is a bit of a shortage, and suddenly we are swiping left and right at each other. The community is now either evil line cutters or CDC priority list goody goody tattle-tales. The anti-vax people appear to have judiciously bowed out of the cat fight, content to let the other side eat it's own.

In tough situations (if you could even call it that), good people show charity toward one another. If we all resort to selfish behavior (both sides), we are all going to be the worse for it. I think we need to take H1N1 seriously, but when it's gone we shouldn't be ashamed of how we all behaved toward one another. Assume some good will. People may have good reasons for what they do. I have been to four sites to get DS vaccinated, and I have yet to get him the shot. I'm not thrilled, but we're not on a desert island fighting over the last cup of water, and I'm not going to behave like it is.

Where is the post with this info in it? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

OK, I have been accused of being a troll. If you did not see this woman, you don't know. She wasn't in a wheel chair, she wasn't on oxygen. There was no cane, nothing indicating any infirmiry except a self-supplied mask and her word. She was ambulatory enough to be talking, arguing, and trolling up and down a line of several hundred people who were there before her. I could not see the rest of the line, but I suspect there were people sicker than she in the line longer than she. She was over 60 and put a mask on her face. I may be hard-hearted, but frankly, I'd give the parent of vaccinatable child who couldn't receive a vaccine a place in line over this woman. Sick or not, she didn't fall into a priority group - the new or the old ones (and yes, I assume she was over 65 years old). My mother, who is over 65 and is "sick" with a priority condition, stood in line with me, but did not get, and did not presume to ask for, a shot. My mother actually had a place in line and agreed with this woman not cutting line. I have a priority condition, technically making me "sick", and I did not cut the line, and I left a shot for someone who clearly needed it more than I do right now.

I know it sounds grade-school, but until the county actually starts triaging, first come first served is it. And, to be honest, if this woman really had an issue, why didn't she just ask to get in front of someone with an explanation as to why? Seriously, it's hard to be hard-hearted in the face of a real reason she should be in the front of the line. If she didn't ask or explain (aside from the protest "I'm sick"), I suspect it is because she knew she should not be cutting.

[Anonymous]

I thought seniors were at the bottom of the priority list for this vaccine because they are the only ones with antibodies from prior exposures. ???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, I have been accused of being a troll. If you did not see this woman, you don't know. She wasn't in a wheel chair, she wasn't on oxygen. There was no cane, nothing indicating any infirmiry except a self-supplied mask and her word. She was ambulatory enough to be talking, arguing, and trolling up and down a line of several hundred people who were there before her. I could not see the rest of the line, but I suspect there were people sicker than she in the line longer than she. She was over 60 and put a mask on her face. I may be hard-hearted, but frankly, I'd give the parent of vaccinatable child who couldn't receive a vaccine a place in line over this woman. Sick or not, she didn't fall into a priority group - the new or the old ones (and yes, I assume she was over 65 years old). My mother, who is over 65 and is "sick" with a priority condition, stood in line with me, but did not get, and did not presume to ask for, a shot. My mother actually had a place in line and agreed with this woman not cutting line. I have a priority condition, technically making me "sick", and I did not cut the line, and I left a shot for someone who clearly needed it more than I do right now.

I know it sounds grade-school, but until the county actually starts triaging, first come first served is it. And, to be honest, if this woman really had an issue, why didn't she just ask to get in front of someone with an explanation as to why? Seriously, it's hard to be hard-hearted in the face of a real reason she should be in the front of the line. If she didn't ask or explain (aside from the protest "I'm sick"), I suspect it is because she knew she should not be cutting.

Yeah, I think I have to agree with you. I wasn't there but, just being over 60 and wearing what could possibly be a prop - a $1 cvs mask - doesn't make you an invalid.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry for this woman, but I think children should be given priority over the elderly.

While I would have hardly stoned this poor woman, I would not have stopped anyone from explaining to her that she was not in the risk group, and if the clinic was specifically for children and pregnant women, I would have no problem with asking her to kindly wait her turn and get the vaccine at a later date.

And, if we are talking about respecting each other, SHE should show some respect to the children in line. It works both ways.

[Anonymous]

I dunno, you all think it's okay to be mean to an old woman, I don't. I suppose it's one thing to just say "I'm sorry, I can't let you in" and another to write a post that says "we sent her packing." You must be really proud of that one! Yuck.

[Anonymous]

The answer is most people just said, "I am sorry, but you are cutting the line. People here have been waiting since very early this moring. The end of the line is there." No one really sent her packing, except to maybe discuss within her ear shot that she shouldn't be cutting the line. Once person told the MoCo reprentative managing the line about her attempts to cut the line. He then went to speak with her about 25 people down from her prior attempt. I actually think she is lucky with the crowd mentality that she didn't get far worse.

And thank you to the people who support that she should wait until the children get vaccinated. I feel the same way about pregnant women, who are dying at a far higher rate than the 25-64 crowd.

[Anonymous]

The people who are vaccinating you are taking you at your word when deciding to give you priority for the shot. Right now, you say you are pregnant or have an infant at home (not even with you), or that you have asthma, they happily believe you and give you the shot.

But when it comes to how you treat each other, well she could be faking it. Or, she could be a sick 63 year old who is definitely on the priority list and who is too ill to stand in line.

Now you say this trust thing is why there is a problem to begin with, but I don't believe it for a minute.

We could live in another world, where the clinic looks more like a badly run, hastily thrown together DMV. After two hours of waiting, you get to the front of the line and get bounced because you didn't get your Dr's note proving you have asthma. As you angrily wave your inhaler in the administrator's face, she says "sorry, that could be for anything. We can only accept a written note from your doctor". Your other friend thought her daughter obviously looked to be 3 or 4 months old, but she gets rejected because she didn't get the birth certificate and so no one knows if the mother is high priority. Your husband tries to avoid all this, but there is a one week delay for him as the now swamped doctors offices are cranking out notes for all their patients, your friend is trying to find time to get a non-photocopied birth certificate for DS out of the safe deposit box, and yes you brought one valid ID from column A and one from Column B, but your driver's license still has your district address and you didn't show residency because they only accept a utility bill with your name on it (this is my spouse's name! you yell at them).... Then all the lucky people who have their medical proof, the proper ID and birth certificates get the vaccine before you even have a chance.

That is what this situation would look like without trust. I believe that it is only right to extend the same trust to each other that the clinics are extending to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry for this woman, but I think children should be given priority over the elderly.

While I would have hardly stoned this poor woman, I would not have stopped anyone from explaining to her that she was not in the risk group, and if the clinic was specifically for children and pregnant women, I would have no problem with asking her to kindly wait her turn and get the vaccine at a later date.

And, if we are talking about respecting each other, SHE should show some respect to the children in line. It works both ways.

It is difficult to fully appreciate what it is like to feel old and frail until we get there.

[Anonymous]

p.s. OP, I have to disagree with the title of this thread. Apparently it is not easy to be good when it costs nothing. It depends on what you mean by cost, and in most cases, people are mean even when it costs them nothing financially. Example, letting someone with only one item ahead of you in the grocery line. People in DC don't do it very often. Standing when someone on the metro NEEDs a seat. Not free, because everyone paid the same fare, but not really an extra cost either.

Cutting in front of someone who has genuinely done what it takes to get a spot in line at a clinic has had no monetary costs, but it might cost a high risk individual necessary medication - a person who did take the necessary steps to get the medication. The shot may cost nothing, but it would deprive the person who would have gotten the 220th shot on Wednesday if this woman had taken it. This woman may have found someone to let her cut to get that shot she felt she deserved. My sympathies are not with a woman who did not play by the rules, but to Baby 220 or Mrs. Pregnant 220, who played by the rules and needed and deserved a shot but didn't get it because of this line cutter.

I am done posting on this topic. I am sure many of you are glad to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:p.s. OP, I have to disagree with the title of this thread. Apparently it is not easy to be good when it costs nothing. It depends on what you mean by cost, and in most cases, people are mean even when it costs them nothing financially. Example, letting someone with only one item ahead of you in the grocery line. People in DC don't do it very often. Standing when someone on the metro NEEDs a seat. Not free, because everyone paid the same fare, but not really an extra cost either.

Cutting in front of someone who has genuinely done what it takes to get a spot in line at a clinic has had no monetary costs, but it might cost a high risk individual necessary medication - a person who did take the necessary steps to get the medication. The shot may cost nothing, but it would deprive the person who would have gotten the 220th shot on Wednesday if this woman had taken it. This woman may have found someone to let her cut to get that shot she felt she deserved. My sympathies are not with a woman who did not play by the rules, but to Baby 220 or Mrs. Pregnant 220, who played by the rules and needed and deserved a shot but didn't get it because of this line cutter.

I am done posting on this topic. I am sure many of you are glad to hear that.

My point was that it's easy to be nice when nothing is at stake, but now with this vaccine situation, there is something at stake and it is tougher to do the right thing. I recognize that it's not easy, but I am trying to get people to take a hard look at what is right in this situation, because that is when character counts.

If you ask me what I would have done, any able-bodied adult there without child or with a friend to watch the child could have taken this lady up to the clinic to allow her to explain her situation to the nurse there. Then they could have made a determination about the best thing to be done. Maybe she needed to hear that she is low priority and should go home. Or perhaps she tends to preemies at the hospital or takes care of her infant granddaughter at home. If such were the case and she's not physically capable of standing up for two straight hours, I would bet the nurse takes her in for a shot right away. Either way, it would be a decent way to handle the situation.