terrorist attack in Paris

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."

you don't realize that you share the ban on genitalia exposed simply because you share those values, not because this is a supposed ban "universally" shared. there are people in the US who would love to sunbathe in the nude but they cannot go to Virginia beach and do it or they will be arrested. there are areas in (at least in Africa, in islands in the Pacific and Australia ) where women normally expose their breasts. if some of these women move to the US do you think they should be allowed to walk around wearing sandals, a skirt and naked boobs? the reality is that they will not be allowed to do it, the government would tell them to cover their boobs based on local decency laws, which are based on current local values

I think it is obvious to anyone that these kinds of examples, where some societal norms of decency and modesty are involved, are not comparable to a ban on a face covering. I think it's a waste of time to continue to draw a parallel between the two types of examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me get that straight: An uncovered woman is against social customs inside the Islamic world, so we must respect that.

Yet a woman who has her face covered is against social customs everywhere outside of the Islamic world yet we cannot possibly respect that?

Logic fail.

You are not supporting a woman's right to be equal. You're supporting a man's need to continue to oppress and brainwash women through the use of religion (and culture).

Women should be free to express who they are. By DENYING them the privilege of wearing a skirt that hits the knee or by showing off her new hairstyle or by wearing pants with a funky pair of boots, you're not supporting her rights. You're simply too stupid to see the root of the issue - and it's patriarchy married to religion.

If I want, I can wear a maxi skirt and a sweater one day and a mini skirt and tights the next. It's my choice to determine what I want to put on my body. No man - no religion - is telling me what I must wear.

know why? b/c I fucking have a brain that hasn't been shaped to believe that Allah will think I'm a whore if I show off my hair or my arms or my legs or my shoulders

It's bad enough when men oppress women, but when other women keep women down, it's even worse.

brainwashing - There's your simple answer, you buffoon.

Actually, the French government has told French Muslim women what they must wear. They don't seem to care that these women - like you - "fucking have a brain." I guess it's OK with you that the French government is assuming the role of daddy?

You, like so many little white girls before you, think you know better than women elsewhere what they think, what they want, and more importantly, what they NEED to think and want. And like so many little white girls before you, you have been brainwashed to think that a woman who covers MUST be doing this because she's forced - because your little mind cannot conceive of anyone who thinks differently from you, and values different things. You say you respect freedom - but in reality, you respect it only if someone makes the same choices as you. You are as intolerant as Al-Saud.

This little white girl comes from a small Italian town where the little old ladies wore long, black dresses and scarves each day b/c it was the custom to be modest.

However, when these little Italian ladies came to the US, they took off their scarves - unless they were cooking - and purchased some fashionable dresses that were still modest but much brighter and "hipper."

Don't tell me about rights and customs, you moron. You tend to like your stereotypes, eh?

- White WOMAN, btw

Good that they were able to freely choose to dress the way they wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."

The French values of liberte, egalite, and fraternite are pretty much incompatible with the niqab. I can see why they would ban it, and I can see why we wouldn't in this country.

Why are they incompatible ?

Check the poll posted earlier in the thread. Most European countries, not only France, would overwhelmingly support a ban. But it wouldn't be supported in the USA.

[Anonymous]

When do you think France will elect and reelect a president with a middle name like, say, Hussein? Or any European country, for that matter?

[Muslima]

Anonymous wrote:I still tend to be very skeptical that there are that many Muslim women who actually cover their faces out of genuine personal choice as opposed to it being what they think is expected of them. They've put the will of others before their own.

I still tend to be very skeptical that there are that many Non-Muslim women who actually uncover their bosoms out of genuine personal choice as opposed to it being what they think is expected of them. They've put the will of others before their own

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."

The French values of liberte, egalite, and fraternite are pretty much incompatible with the niqab. I can see why they would ban it, and I can see why we wouldn't in this country.

Why are they incompatible ?

Check the poll posted earlier in the thread. Most European countries, not only France, would overwhelmingly support a ban. But it wouldn't be supported in the USA.

Our country values freedom and individual liberty. We highly individualism. Most of Europe really doesn't. Their societies are (or were) homogeneous, and they value equality and brotherhood, which is incompatible with women covering themselves completely.

[Anonymous]

^^ Fair enough. I also think that this country was founded partly to escape religious persecution makes people here to be more tolerant about others expressing their religious identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When do you think France will elect and reelect a president with a middle name like, say, Hussein? Or any European country, for that matter?

come down from you high horse, the US elected his first AA president after AA have been in the US for hundreds of years (immigrants from North Africa and other former colonies have been in France and other European countries for a much shorter time, in some countries just a decade or two), and have never elected a woman (as EU countries have already done), and have never elected a Muslim president, although Muslims have been in the US for a long time.

France has already had a Muslim minister of justice (and a woman!)

Hussein? if Obama was Muslim, he would not have done that far in the election

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This little white girl comes from a small Italian town where the little old ladies wore long, black dresses and scarves each day b/c it was the custom to be modest.

However, when these little Italian ladies came to the US, they took off their scarves - unless they were cooking - and purchased some fashionable dresses that were still modest but much brighter and "hipper."

Don't tell me about rights and customs, you moron. You tend to like your stereotypes, eh?

- White WOMAN, btw

Small Italian town, eh? I can see where your habit to curse when running out of arguments comes from.

Clearly, everyone in the world should behave exactly like the ladies from your hometown. In fact, laws should be passed to fine anyone who doesn't. We'll call it a freedom from dress code - as long as all women dress exactly like your hometown heroes.

You define a stereotype, my darling. A little white girl who presumes she can tell the natives how to think and what to do. The world is littered by people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."

you don't realize that you share the ban on genitalia exposed simply because you share those values, not because this is a supposed ban "universally" shared. there are people in the US who would love to sunbathe in the nude but they cannot go to Virginia beach and do it or they will be arrested. there are areas in (at least in Africa, in islands in the Pacific and Australia ) where women normally expose their breasts. if some of these women move to the US do you think they should be allowed to walk around wearing sandals, a skirt and naked boobs? the reality is that they will not be allowed to do it, the government would tell them to cover their boobs based on local decency laws, which are based on current local values

I think it is obvious to anyone that these kinds of examples, where some societal norms of decency and modesty are involved, are not comparable to a ban on a face covering. I think it's a waste of time to continue to draw a parallel between the two types of examples.

No one is putting a gun to your head to continue this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This little white girl comes from a small Italian town where the little old ladies wore long, black dresses and scarves each day b/c it was the custom to be modest.

However, when these little Italian ladies came to the US, they took off their scarves - unless they were cooking - and purchased some fashionable dresses that were still modest but much brighter and "hipper."

Don't tell me about rights and customs, you moron. You tend to like your stereotypes, eh?

- White WOMAN, btw

Small Italian town, eh? I can see where your habit to curse when running out of arguments comes from.

Clearly, everyone in the world should behave exactly like the ladies from your hometown. In fact, laws should be passed to fine anyone who doesn't. We'll call it a freedom from dress code - as long as all women dress exactly like your hometown heroes.

You define a stereotype, my darling. A little white girl who presumes she can tell the natives how to think and what to do. The world is littered by people like you.

Not PP. Yes, white women are bad and their opinions are invalid, etc., etc.

It's not the French telling the natives how to think and what to do, it's the French telling the would-be French living in France what to do. Seems fine to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."

The French values of liberte, egalite, and fraternite are pretty much incompatible with the niqab. I can see why they would ban it, and I can see why we wouldn't in this country.

Clearly, no one can be free or equal unless their face is uncovered. Anything else that you think should be exposed before someone can claim a share of universal values? You want to pass a law that no woman can be French unless she looks exactly like La Liberté guidant le peuple?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This little white girl comes from a small Italian town where the little old ladies wore long, black dresses and scarves each day b/c it was the custom to be modest.

However, when these little Italian ladies came to the US, they took off their scarves - unless they were cooking - and purchased some fashionable dresses that were still modest but much brighter and "hipper."

Don't tell me about rights and customs, you moron. You tend to like your stereotypes, eh?

- White WOMAN, btw

Small Italian town, eh? I can see where your habit to curse when running out of arguments comes from.

Clearly, everyone in the world should behave exactly like the ladies from your hometown. In fact, laws should be passed to fine anyone who doesn't. We'll call it a freedom from dress code - as long as all women dress exactly like your hometown heroes.

You define a stereotype, my darling. A little white girl who presumes she can tell the natives how to think and what to do. The world is littered by people like you.

Not PP. Yes, white women are bad and their opinions are invalid, etc., etc.

It's not the French telling the natives how to think and what to do, it's the French telling the would-be French living in France what to do. Seems fine to me.

If you think the government should be able to prescribe your dress code, I got nothing for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exposing genitalia is banned universally for self-evidente reasons. Covering one's face can be debated for security reasons -- although suche a ban didn't impede the attacks in Paris, 9/11, and other countless acts of violence -- but that's not the debate France had when the ban was imposed.

The government shouldn't determine a dressential code based on "values."

you don't realize that you share the ban on genitalia exposed simply because you share those values, not because this is a supposed ban "universally" shared. there are people in the US who would love to sunbathe in the nude but they cannot go to Virginia beach and do it or they will be arrested. there are areas in (at least in Africa, in islands in the Pacific and Australia ) where women normally expose their breasts. if some of these women move to the US do you think they should be allowed to walk around wearing sandals, a skirt and naked boobs? the reality is that they will not be allowed to do it, the government would tell them to cover their boobs based on local decency laws, which are based on current local values

I think it is obvious to anyone that these kinds of examples, where some societal norms of decency and modesty are involved, are not comparable to a ban on a face covering. I think it's a waste of time to continue to draw a parallel between the two types of examples.

it's a waste of time because it does not support your statement that the government should not determine a dress code based on "values". the government does that when it prohibit the walking around in public boobs exposed. you may not realized that this is based on values because it is based on YOUR values, certainly not supposedly universal values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When do you think France will elect and reelect a president with a middle name like, say, Hussein? Or any European country, for that matter?

come down from you high horse, the US elected his first AA president after AA have been in the US for hundreds of years (immigrants from North Africa and other former colonies have been in France and other European countries for a much shorter time, in some countries just a decade or two), and have never elected a woman (as EU countries have already done), and have never elected a Muslim president, although Muslims have been in the US for a long time.

France has already had a Muslim minister of justice (and a woman!)

Hussein? if Obama was Muslim, he would not have done that far in the election

Rachida Dati grew up in a Muslim family she does not look and behave like a Muslim. I do not believe she is a practicing Muslim. When there is a practicing Muslim hijabi minister in France, then we'll talk.