FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

To finish the quote "A recent study from the Northwest Evaluation Association (NWEA) found that completing Algebra 1 by eighth grade led to 30% more ninth graders and 16% more 11th graders taking advanced courses. ".

This sounds like a good goal to make available; if you don't want your kid to do it then don't do it. The minimum requirement to graduate HS is Algebra II.

Most parents want their kids to do advanced math, so the complaint is the edge case where the kid isn't ready? Then the kid isn't ready. Algebra 1 in 9th isn't mandatory. Just looks like something to complain about. Why are you on this forum if you don't want your kid to get ahead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

To finish the quote "A recent study from the Northwest Evaluation Association (NWEA) found that completing Algebra 1 by eighth grade led to 30% more ninth graders and 16% more 11th graders taking advanced courses. ".

This sounds like a good goal to make available; if you don't want your kid to do it then don't do it. The minimum requirement to graduate HS is Algebra II.

Most parents want their kids to do advanced math, so the complaint is the edge case where the kid isn't ready? Then the kid isn't ready. Algebra 1 in 9th isn't mandatory. Just looks like something to complain about. Why are you on this forum if you don't want your kid to get ahead?

DP. Are you trying to hijack the legitimate logistical and financial concerns people have about a 6-8 MS (or 6-12 SS) model in FCPS with random citations about the benefits of taking Algebra by 8th grade? Because that’s certainly how you’re coming across.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Before any discussion of changing boundaries, the SB needs to eliminate ALL AAP centers and just ensure every school has AAP classes. The skewing and confusion of borders is due in large part to the absurd busing of certain students to center schools. At this point, the center model is redundant and wasteful and needs to end.

Boundaries should only be addressed if there is a need to do so AFTER all kids are back in their community schools.

Agreed. At the next BRAC meeting, they are reviewing a scenario of everyone returning to their zoned school. So many of these inflated schools are influenced by those they allow attend from other zone, and often those over-achievers looking for more!

Bring students back to their home zones, offer fair and enticing programming within all pyramids and then assess capacity issues. See how testing and scores level out before their next equity brigade.

Was not aware this option was being considered (returning everyone to their zoned school). I think this is what many of us wanted as a start point for this whole review process, very pleased it's being presented to the BRAC.

+100
This is what they should be doing. Nothing else is relevant until AAP centers are a thing of the past and every student is back in their zoned school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Before any discussion of changing boundaries, the SB needs to eliminate ALL AAP centers and just ensure every school has AAP classes. The skewing and confusion of borders is due in large part to the absurd busing of certain students to center schools. At this point, the center model is redundant and wasteful and needs to end.

Boundaries should only be addressed if there is a need to do so AFTER all kids are back in their community schools.

Agreed. At the next BRAC meeting, they are reviewing a scenario of everyone returning to their zoned school. So many of these inflated schools are influenced by those they allow attend from other zone, and often those over-achievers looking for more!

Bring students back to their home zones, offer fair and enticing programming within all pyramids and then assess capacity issues. See how testing and scores level out before their next equity brigade.

Was not aware this option was being considered (returning everyone to their zoned school). I think this is what many of us wanted as a start point for this whole review process, very pleased it's being presented to the BRAC.

There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school


Option #2

Move 6th grade from elementary school to middle school, which will require extensive rezoning in every neighborhood and school, including converting some elementary schools to middle schools and moving 6th graders as young as 10 years old into the secondary schools with students as old as 21.

Most of the oldest students will be 18/19 or younger, but if they are severely special needs or a recent migrant, they can attend high school until they are 21, as long as they are 20 years old the first day of school.

The significant expense of Option #2 was not accounted for in the most recent CIP, but it is now Dr. Reid's #1 priority by her own words at multiple community meetings, so logic and expense be damned.

If I were a Robinson, SoCo, or Lake Braddock zoned parent of elementary kids, I would be raising holy hell with my school board reps about this, before they finalize the move.

The 21 year old migrant and special needs high school students are federal law. I would also be raising hell with Tim Kaine, Connolly and Mark Warner about the 21 year old migrant men being allowed to attend traditional high school. The special needs students makes sense, but perfectly capable adult men allowed to be students in high schools and secondary schools does not.

If they are old enough to be charged with statuatory rape if they date anyone in their high school class, then they do not belong in traditional high school, especially if FCPS is moving 10 and 11 year old 6th graders into the building and school busses.

DP. I agree and am absolutely appalled at Option 2. WTH?? Are parents allowed to vote on this? I want my 6th graders to remain in elementary school, period. There is no reason to move 6th graders. Option 1 is the obvious and logical solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Before any discussion of changing boundaries, the SB needs to eliminate ALL AAP centers and just ensure every school has AAP classes. The skewing and confusion of borders is due in large part to the absurd busing of certain students to center schools. At this point, the center model is redundant and wasteful and needs to end.

Boundaries should only be addressed if there is a need to do so AFTER all kids are back in their community schools.

Agreed. At the next BRAC meeting, they are reviewing a scenario of everyone returning to their zoned school. So many of these inflated schools are influenced by those they allow attend from other zone, and often those over-achievers looking for more!

Bring students back to their home zones, offer fair and enticing programming within all pyramids and then assess capacity issues. See how testing and scores level out before their next equity brigade.

Was not aware this option was being considered (returning everyone to their zoned school). I think this is what many of us wanted as a start point for this whole review process, very pleased it's being presented to the BRAC.

There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school


Option #2

Move 6th grade from elementary school to middle school, which will require extensive rezoning in every neighborhood and school, including converting some elementary schools to middle schools and moving 6th graders as young as 10 years old into the secondary schools with students as old as 21.

Most of the oldest students will be 18/19 or younger, but if they are severely special needs or a recent migrant, they can attend high school until they are 21, as long as they are 20 years old the first day of school.

The significant expense of Option #2 was not accounted for in the most recent CIP, but it is now Dr. Reid's #1 priority by her own words at multiple community meetings, so logic and expense be damned.

If I were a Robinson, SoCo, or Lake Braddock zoned parent of elementary kids, I would be raising holy hell with my school board reps about this, before they finalize the move.

The 21 year old migrant and special needs high school students are federal law. I would also be raising hell with Tim Kaine, Connolly and Mark Warner about the 21 year old migrant men being allowed to attend traditional high school. The special needs students makes sense, but perfectly capable adult men allowed to be students in high schools and secondary schools does not.

If they are old enough to be charged with statuatory rape if they date anyone in their high school class, then they do not belong in traditional high school, especially if FCPS is moving 10 and 11 year old 6th graders into the building and school busses.

Option #2 is “nuclear”, per previous FCPS words. Totally understand and agree that 6-8 is very common throughout the country but FCPS facilities has not, nor is, built to support this. The fact Reid is even considering this shows she doesn’t understand the county’s limitations.

How would an elementary school become a middle school? If it were, it would be 6th grade only and all the reasons Reid gave for moving 6th graders are moot anyway. THe gyms are too small, the math teachers wouldn’t be able to talk to other math teachers. And you take away walk zones.

I think this is a a negotiation tactic. Get everyone riled up so when the real maps are revealed, it is less disruptive and everyone says ok.

THe impracticality of it is ridiculous.

6th -8th grade middle schools are the norm in many school district, and is the case in many local jurisdiction.

I would like to see more secondary schools. Shrink the boundaries and eliminate middle schools entirely. HS should be 7th - 12th. The 21yr old student is a silly argument. Most 21yr olds will be out earning a living in the trades/construction regardless of educational attainment.

The middle schools can be repurposed as HS too, but with much smaller boundaries.

The they are going to rape my daughter is so offensive on so many levels. It’s very Trumpian actually. Fear and hate are corrosive.

DP. What absolute nonsense. 7th graders do NOT belong in high schools, period. Regardless of the other arguments, 11/12 year olds don't belong in school with 18 yr. olds. How completely stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school

What does this mean?

Eliminate AAP centers and close AP/IB/language transfers.

+1
This makes so much sense, we can be sure they won't do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know, FCPS could be focusing on real problems, like academics instead of this nonsense.

+ a million
This is so disheartening. What a waste of time and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Exactly. There IS no benefit. Six graders don't need to be rushed along - they deserve to remain in elementary school. The 7-8 grade model has worked for decades here and there is no reason to change it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s great that we’re exploring all these possibilities in FCPS we hadn’t considered before.

I’d like to explore a scenario where Reid is reassigned to be a cafeteria worker, Frisch a janitor, and Sizemore Heizer a bus driver. Moon can teach French and McDaniel can teach Dance.

Just so we can see how this might look, not that we’d actually do any of these things.

+ infinity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

To finish the quote "A recent study from the Northwest Evaluation Association (NWEA) found that completing Algebra 1 by eighth grade led to 30% more ninth graders and 16% more 11th graders taking advanced courses. ".

This sounds like a good goal to make available; if you don't want your kid to do it then don't do it. The minimum requirement to graduate HS is Algebra II.

Most parents want their kids to do advanced math, so the complaint is the edge case where the kid isn't ready? Then the kid isn't ready. Algebra 1 in 9th isn't mandatory. Just looks like something to complain about. Why are you on this forum if you don't want your kid to get ahead?

I”m not complaining, I’m fixing your erroneous idea that “it is entirely up to you” When you clearly don’t know what the Superintendent is aiming for and why this is yet another equity issue driving new boundaries.

IF you take Algebra 1 in 9th that puts you in AP pre-calc senior year. What does “advanced math” consist of to you?

Saying all kids need to take calculus in high school is unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This crowd will never get rid of IB. The white mommies whose kids were in the 5-10% of kids doing the IB programs at the IB schools are the types who run for the SB or have the ear of SB members and they never shut up about how great IB is. They don’t care if it’s an inferior program for most students and costs more.

Plus IB traffics in a lot of slogans that sound good to our SB members, such as creating “global citizens” and “lifelong learners.” They eat up that stuff.

They will shove kids into failing IB schools, claim IB is as good as if not better than AP, and say they are providing equitable access to advanced academics at the HS level.

This will never change unless the current SB and superintendent are replaced.

I agree with everything you wrote - but "white mommies"? Really? No need to race bait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school

What does this mean?

Eliminate AAP centers and close AP/IB/language transfers.

Then I vote for this, adding eliminating IB in favor of AP and doing a one-time residency check, followed by checking residency for every school change (i.e. when you go to middle school and when you go to high school) just like you prove residency when starting kindergarten or whenever you join an elementary school.

Then, maybe, they can look at whether some of those bigger elementary schools that have been housing AAP centers could house a 6-8 middle school.

There is no need for AAP centers for 7-8 graders.

I get closing the language loop hole. I can see where there are communities where it makes sense to offer a more specialized language, like Farsi or Russian or Hindi or Chinese or German, but for the most part all schools offer Spanish and French, which should be enough for students.

Closing the IB/AP transfer is unfair to kids who are assigned to a program that is a bad fit. The kids who transfer for IB are actually interested in the program and required to work the degree program. There are kids who have no interest in the IB program and it is a bad fit for their interests who should be allowed to transfer for AP. If you are going to close that option then you need to get rid of one of the programs, which would obviously be the IB program.

I have no problem with the language immersion programs because parents are aware that they have to transport their kids if they want their kids to participate and it is out of boundary. That requirement continues for MS and HS if the child continues with the program. Some schools do not allow students outside of the school to participate in the lottery, and that is fine. Schools with space can open the program up to the lottery. It is a school-based choice. It is not a burden on busses and can be set up to prevent it from leading to an over crowded school.

AAP centers can be closed and those students returned to their base schools. Or offer the parents the option that they have to provide transportation if they choose the Center.

It makes far more sense to offer Chinese than French these days. France really isn’t very important any longer.

You don’t necessarily pupil place to an IB school because you want to do the full diploma. It’s just become another vehicle to engage in demographic arbitrage. Only a small fraction of the Herndon kids transferring to South Lakes get the IB diploma. They need to get rid of IB.

You know what? Being able to read historically great literature matters. While I know China has a long literary history (we read some translated Chinese literature in 10th grade English that still sticks with me), so does France.

Very few FCPS students taking French ever come close to the level of fluency needed to read Voltaire or Zola in French.

Fine if we make Chinese, French, and Spanish the languages offered at every school, but if we were limited to two French should be dropped rather than Chinese.

DP. Sorry, but no way. Most kids aren't about to take on a language like Chinese. French and Spanish should absolutely be the two standard offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

+100
Our kid's math teacher told us that most of the kids who are pushed into advanced math in 6th grade really aren't ready for it and don't retain it. Sure, some kids do, but most do not and don't need to be rushed into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

There are so few 6th graders capable of taking algebra in 6th, maybe a half dozen per grade.

For those half dozen 6th graders per middle school who are ready to discover algebra in 6th, there will be dozens of 6th graders who will discover sex, vaping and pot a year earlier on the middle school busses and in the bathrooms, and hundreds who get bullied because they are too emotionally young for middle school.

Exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This crowd will never get rid of IB. The white mommies whose kids were in the 5-10% of kids doing the IB programs at the IB schools are the types who run for the SB or have the ear of SB members and they never shut up about how great IB is. They don’t care if it’s an inferior program for most students and costs more.

Plus IB traffics in a lot of slogans that sound good to our SB members, such as creating “global citizens” and “lifelong learners.” They eat up that stuff.

They will shove kids into failing IB schools, claim IB is as good as if not better than AP, and say they are providing equitable access to advanced academics at the HS level.

This will never change unless the current SB and superintendent are replaced.

I agree with everything you wrote - but "white mommies"? Really? No need to race bait.

It does sound racist, but that is what happened at South Lakes during the 2008 redistricting. I cannot remember the names, but they definitely fit that description. They picked and chose which neighborhoods to come to their school. They rejected some that were logical by location. They wanted a strong IB program and that was the only way to get it--no matter that the parents of those redistricted begged for a change to AP. It's all on video somewhere in 2008 School Board meetings. I remember thinking that they were uprooting several large neighborhoods, the least they could do was give the students AP instead of IB.