FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so few 6th graders capable of taking algebra in 6th, maybe a half dozen per grade.

I think you are vastly underestimating. My 7th grader is in Algebra and hasn't received less than a 95% on a quiz or test all year. He didn't do any outside enrichment and he isn't some kind of genius. He easily could have taken it last year. Almost every AAP kid in his school did well enough on the IAAT to qualify for Algebra in 7th - I bet many more than a half dozen would have scored high enough qualify if it was given a year earlier.

My kid went through AAP as the last class before the program expanded significantly.

There were 6 kids at our large, high achieving center that scored high enough on the IAAT to take algebra in 6th. That is 6 kids out of three classrooms at the time. I think several of them went on to TJ, and at least 2 of them were top 10 in their graduating class.

There are not more than a half dozen or so +/- kids per class at the centers ready to successfully take algebra in 6th grade, and even fewer than that at the non center schools.

Altogether, district wide, there is maybe one total class of 6th graders ready to take algebra in 6th. That would be fewer than 40 ish students out of a district 6th grade of roughly 13,500 students.

Blowing up the entire district for less than a half percent of the 6th grade class is a ridiculous, expensive, disruptive, ill conceived plan that should never see the light of day.

Just spend a hundred thousand dollars hiring an algebra qualified teacher for the handful of center elementary schools with enough 6th graders ready to take algebra. Or spend a couple thousand certifying an elementary teacher to teach algebra at schools thqt are high performing.

Don't blow up the district of 175,000 students over something that impacts a few dozen kids who are less than a half percent of students in one grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid went through AAP as the last class before the program expanded significantly.

There were 6 kids at our large, high achieving center that scored high enough on the IAAT to take algebra in 6th.

I don't know how long ago that was, but my kid was at Hunters Woods last year and out of all the 6th grade AAP kids who took the IAAT only a couple didn't do well enough to take Algebra this year. None of them are struggling this year. Algebra is just not a difficult course for the types of kids that actually do their classwork/homework assignments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

[Anonymous]

I’ll add that my older child is in AAP and took it in 7th, but my younger is more a middle of the pack kid.
This isn’t just there if you want it, this is a goal of FCPS.

[Anonymous]

here were 6 kids at our large, high achieving center that scored high enough on the IAAT to take algebra in 6th.

I don't know how long ago that was, but my kid was at Hunters Woods last year and out of all the 6th grade AAP kids who took the IAAT only a couple didn't do well enough to take Algebra this year. None of them are struggling this year. Algebra is just not a difficult course for the types of kids that actually do their classwork/homework assignments.

I think first PP is referring to Algebra in 6th grade.
I think second PP is referring to Algebra in 7th grade.

Have there been studies done on the scores as they get older? Do they turn out to be better mathematicians?

[Anonymous]

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

I'd be happy if over the next years, the strategic goal was to have all high school graduates read at a minimum of an eighth grade level. Sad, but realistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid went through AAP as the last class before the program expanded significantly.

There were 6 kids at our large, high achieving center that scored high enough on the IAAT to take algebra in 6th.

I don't know how long ago that was, but my kid was at Hunters Woods last year and out of all the 6th grade AAP kids who took the IAAT only a couple didn't do well enough to take Algebra this year. None of them are struggling this year. Algebra is just not a difficult course for the types of kids that actually do their classwork/homework assignments.

I am talking about 5th graders who scored high enough on the IAAT to take algebra in 6th grade. I apologize for not being clear.

Of course most AAP kids should score high enough in 6th grade to take Algebra I in 7th grade.

I don't think that is why Reid wants to move 6th graders to middle school. She wants to give more 6th graders access to Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

I am saying the nymber of kids who are ready to do Algebra in 6th grade, and able to pass the IAAT in 5th is quite small, probably less than 50 kids district wide, and too small a number to blow up the entire county to accomplish Reid's goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

Don't almost all FCPS students take Algebra 1 by 8th grade?

That is not some mind blowing idea that Reid suddenly invented

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

Her quote says "by eighth grade" not in eighth grade as your post reads. That would mean kids could still take it in 6th and 7th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am talking about 5th graders who scored high enough on the IAAT to take algebra in 6th grade. I apologize for not being clear.

5th graders don't take the IAAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school

What does this mean?

Eliminate AAP centers and close AP/IB/language transfers.

Then I vote for this, adding eliminating IB in favor of AP and doing a one-time residency check, followed by checking residency for every school change (i.e. when you go to middle school and when you go to high school) just like you prove residency when starting kindergarten or whenever you join an elementary school.

Then, maybe, they can look at whether some of those bigger elementary schools that have been housing AAP centers could house a 6-8 middle school.

There is no need for AAP centers for 7-8 graders.

I get closing the language loop hole. I can see where there are communities where it makes sense to offer a more specialized language, like Farsi or Russian or Hindi or Chinese or German, but for the most part all schools offer Spanish and French, which should be enough for students.

Closing the IB/AP transfer is unfair to kids who are assigned to a program that is a bad fit. The kids who transfer for IB are actually interested in the program and required to work the degree program. There are kids who have no interest in the IB program and it is a bad fit for their interests who should be allowed to transfer for AP. If you are going to close that option then you need to get rid of one of the programs, which would obviously be the IB program.

I have no problem with the language immersion programs because parents are aware that they have to transport their kids if they want their kids to participate and it is out of boundary. That requirement continues for MS and HS if the child continues with the program. Some schools do not allow students outside of the school to participate in the lottery, and that is fine. Schools with space can open the program up to the lottery. It is a school-based choice. It is not a burden on busses and can be set up to prevent it from leading to an over crowded school.

AAP centers can be closed and those students returned to their base schools. Or offer the parents the option that they have to provide transportation if they choose the Center.

I would be interested to know how many in boundary kids at the IB schools take the courses compared to those who transfer in for IB.

I'm pretty sure most South Lakes in boundary would prefer AP. At least, the ones that I know.

Serious question: has FCPS ever done a serious unbiased survey to the parents in those school boundaries. Limited to the inboundary parents.

I know parents at SLHS that like IB and would be upset if it went away. Several insist that it is superior to AP and don't get why people don't like it. The biggest supporters I know are European, so it is the program that they know. Most of the people I know would prefer AP but I suspect that there is more support for the program at the school then we know. And, realistically speaking, I am not sure that many of the families who don't take IB classes would care if it was IB or AP because I suspect that their kids are not going to take either. It probably comes down the opinions of the MC/UMC families at the IB schools.

That said, I would love for the County to actually ask the parents at each school what programs that they want and see what impact that has on the schools. Because I do think that the vast majority of parents at IB schools would prefer AP schools and I suspect that there are a good number of parents that would like to see votech programs that are not disruptive to a kids schedule, ie ditch the academies and start a votech school or offer better Votech offerings at all of the HS.

According to the Virginia Department of Education stats, only around 50 seniors graduate each year from South Lakes with an IB diploma.

That is an abysmally small number for what IB costs, especially when you consider that most of the schools graduate a dozen or fewer IB diplomas, with some in the single digits.

Marshall graduates around 70.

The only school awarding more than a hundred IB diplomas is Robinson.

You could combine all the students in FCPS who want to earn an IB diploma into one high school, and the classes would still be too small to fill a school. The classes would make Lewis look mammoth, with only around 300 students per grade in a district with around 12,000 students per grade.

If parents and students truly wanted IB, there would be more than a handful kids pursuing the IB diploma each year.

IB is a wasted expense for FCPS.

Which schools in FCPS are IB? Are all others AP? Do any offer dual enrollment in conjunction with NOVA community college?

(I have kids in daycare so don’t know. But already very against any boundary changes!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school

What does this mean?

Eliminate AAP centers and close AP/IB/language transfers.

Then I vote for this, adding eliminating IB in favor of AP and doing a one-time residency check, followed by checking residency for every school change (i.e. when you go to middle school and when you go to high school) just like you prove residency when starting kindergarten or whenever you join an elementary school.

Then, maybe, they can look at whether some of those bigger elementary schools that have been housing AAP centers could house a 6-8 middle school.

There is no need for AAP centers for 7-8 graders.

I get closing the language loop hole. I can see where there are communities where it makes sense to offer a more specialized language, like Farsi or Russian or Hindi or Chinese or German, but for the most part all schools offer Spanish and French, which should be enough for students.

Closing the IB/AP transfer is unfair to kids who are assigned to a program that is a bad fit. The kids who transfer for IB are actually interested in the program and required to work the degree program. There are kids who have no interest in the IB program and it is a bad fit for their interests who should be allowed to transfer for AP. If you are going to close that option then you need to get rid of one of the programs, which would obviously be the IB program.

I have no problem with the language immersion programs because parents are aware that they have to transport their kids if they want their kids to participate and it is out of boundary. That requirement continues for MS and HS if the child continues with the program. Some schools do not allow students outside of the school to participate in the lottery, and that is fine. Schools with space can open the program up to the lottery. It is a school-based choice. It is not a burden on busses and can be set up to prevent it from leading to an over crowded school.

AAP centers can be closed and those students returned to their base schools. Or offer the parents the option that they have to provide transportation if they choose the Center.

I would be interested to know how many in boundary kids at the IB schools take the courses compared to those who transfer in for IB.

I'm pretty sure most South Lakes in boundary would prefer AP. At least, the ones that I know.

Serious question: has FCPS ever done a serious unbiased survey to the parents in those school boundaries. Limited to the inboundary parents.

I know parents at SLHS that like IB and would be upset if it went away. Several insist that it is superior to AP and don't get why people don't like it. The biggest supporters I know are European, so it is the program that they know. Most of the people I know would prefer AP but I suspect that there is more support for the program at the school then we know. And, realistically speaking, I am not sure that many of the families who don't take IB classes would care if it was IB or AP because I suspect that their kids are not going to take either. It probably comes down the opinions of the MC/UMC families at the IB schools.

That said, I would love for the County to actually ask the parents at each school what programs that they want and see what impact that has on the schools. Because I do think that the vast majority of parents at IB schools would prefer AP schools and I suspect that there are a good number of parents that would like to see votech programs that are not disruptive to a kids schedule, ie ditch the academies and start a votech school or offer better Votech offerings at all of the HS.

According to the Virginia Department of Education stats, only around 50 seniors graduate each year from South Lakes with an IB diploma.

That is an abysmally small number for what IB costs, especially when you consider that most of the schools graduate a dozen or fewer IB diplomas, with some in the single digits.

Marshall graduates around 70.

The only school awarding more than a hundred IB diplomas is Robinson.

You could combine all the students in FCPS who want to earn an IB diploma into one high school, and the classes would still be too small to fill a school. The classes would make Lewis look mammoth, with only around 300 students per grade in a district with around 12,000 students per grade.

If parents and students truly wanted IB, there would be more than a handful kids pursuing the IB diploma each year.

IB is a wasted expense for FCPS.

Agree - IB is indeed a wasted expense for FCPS. The only people supporting it are:

- European and a few other international families who have no intention of their child attending university in the USA, and

- the woke school board who gushes over buzzwords like “global citizen” or “lifelong scholar.”

[Anonymous]

I expect Reid is going to be in for a world of pain if they try to move kids from West Potomac to Mount Vernon, Woodson to Annandale, McLean to Marshall, or Lake Braddock to Robinson, and people object to being moved to IB schools. We absolutely will not send our kids to an IB school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the big advantage of 6-8? I can understand that this may have happened in some schools because of numbers, but why do it throughout the county.

I prefer 1-6. Just because much of the country does it, does not make it best.

Accelerated math, science and the arts. Kids who start advanced math in 7th are already behind, even if they start with algebra.

Already behind if kids take Algebra in 7th grade? Honestly, I completely disagree. Pushing math doesn’t really help kids. I am gainfully employed with a Masters degree and I took Algebra in 8th. Kids have to go to college and if you max out math in high school
1. Colleges won’t even take the math credit if you major in math, so you end up retaking
2. Even having had calculus in high school, I never took math again in college. So why push harder if you never use it.

THis reeks of a social justice platform. Something like: Make sure ALL kids take Algebra in middle school.

I dont’ even want my white middle of the road student to take it until he is READY. Why push this?

Not sure who is making your kid take Algebra in MS - your kid can take Algebra in HS. If you don't like the fact that college admission might be impacted then roll the dice like everyone else. Making it available for a tiger mom shouldn't and doesn't force anything on you. A good school provides opportunity - the choice is up to you to use it or not. There's band not everyone uses that - it's there if you want it.

Pretty sure Dr. Reid says her goal is to have ALL kids take Algebra in 8th. so, the superintendent is “making OUR kids” take Algebra in middle school. It is part of the “strategic plan” SHe has also used this as a reason to make middle school 6-8.

“ Helping students to complete Algebra 1 by eighth grade is part of our Strategic Plan (Goal 3: Academic Growth and Excellence). The Algebra Access Network Improvement Community (AANIC) is working to increase the diverse representation of students who take advanced math classes and succeed in them. Learn more about the AANIC cohorts at Kilmer and Key middle schools and hear students explain why algebra matters to them.”

Don't almost all FCPS students take Algebra 1 by 8th grade?

That is not some mind blowing idea that Reid suddenly invented

Not yet. That's the push even though some students clearly don't have the foundational knowledge. Expect a lot of kids expunging and retaking the course in 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are now just 2 options under consideration, but that might change again.

Option #1

Return everyone to their base school

What does this mean?

Eliminate AAP centers and close AP/IB/language transfers.

Then I vote for this, adding eliminating IB in favor of AP and doing a one-time residency check, followed by checking residency for every school change (i.e. when you go to middle school and when you go to high school) just like you prove residency when starting kindergarten or whenever you join an elementary school.

Then, maybe, they can look at whether some of those bigger elementary schools that have been housing AAP centers could house a 6-8 middle school.

There is no need for AAP centers for 7-8 graders.

I get closing the language loop hole. I can see where there are communities where it makes sense to offer a more specialized language, like Farsi or Russian or Hindi or Chinese or German, but for the most part all schools offer Spanish and French, which should be enough for students.

Closing the IB/AP transfer is unfair to kids who are assigned to a program that is a bad fit. The kids who transfer for IB are actually interested in the program and required to work the degree program. There are kids who have no interest in the IB program and it is a bad fit for their interests who should be allowed to transfer for AP. If you are going to close that option then you need to get rid of one of the programs, which would obviously be the IB program.

I have no problem with the language immersion programs because parents are aware that they have to transport their kids if they want their kids to participate and it is out of boundary. That requirement continues for MS and HS if the child continues with the program. Some schools do not allow students outside of the school to participate in the lottery, and that is fine. Schools with space can open the program up to the lottery. It is a school-based choice. It is not a burden on busses and can be set up to prevent it from leading to an over crowded school.

AAP centers can be closed and those students returned to their base schools. Or offer the parents the option that they have to provide transportation if they choose the Center.

I would be interested to know how many in boundary kids at the IB schools take the courses compared to those who transfer in for IB.

I'm pretty sure most South Lakes in boundary would prefer AP. At least, the ones that I know.

Serious question: has FCPS ever done a serious unbiased survey to the parents in those school boundaries. Limited to the inboundary parents.

I know parents at SLHS that like IB and would be upset if it went away. Several insist that it is superior to AP and don't get why people don't like it. The biggest supporters I know are European, so it is the program that they know. Most of the people I know would prefer AP but I suspect that there is more support for the program at the school then we know. And, realistically speaking, I am not sure that many of the families who don't take IB classes would care if it was IB or AP because I suspect that their kids are not going to take either. It probably comes down the opinions of the MC/UMC families at the IB schools.

That said, I would love for the County to actually ask the parents at each school what programs that they want and see what impact that has on the schools. Because I do think that the vast majority of parents at IB schools would prefer AP schools and I suspect that there are a good number of parents that would like to see votech programs that are not disruptive to a kids schedule, ie ditch the academies and start a votech school or offer better Votech offerings at all of the HS.

According to the Virginia Department of Education stats, only around 50 seniors graduate each year from South Lakes with an IB diploma.

That is an abysmally small number for what IB costs, especially when you consider that most of the schools graduate a dozen or fewer IB diplomas, with some in the single digits.

Marshall graduates around 70.

The only school awarding more than a hundred IB diplomas is Robinson.

You could combine all the students in FCPS who want to earn an IB diploma into one high school, and the classes would still be too small to fill a school. The classes would make Lewis look mammoth, with only around 300 students per grade in a district with around 12,000 students per grade.

If parents and students truly wanted IB, there would be more than a handful kids pursuing the IB diploma each year.

IB is a wasted expense for FCPS.

Which schools in FCPS are IB? Are all others AP? Do any offer dual enrollment in conjunction with NOVA community college?

(I have kids in daycare so don’t know. But already very against any boundary changes!)

Marshal HS on Rt 7 is IB.

Nearby McLean and Langley are AP.

Justice High School offers BOTH AP and IB.

Justice was the first high school in Fairfax County Public Schools to adopt the IB curriculum in 1996. As of 2024, of the eight IB schools in FCPS, Justice has the second highest number of IB Diploma candidates. Approximately, 20% of the senior class of 2024 were IB diploma candidates.