King Abdullah Academy Closing: FCPS Buy for HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chantilly has a really small acreage compared to other Western schools.

But don’t they use the Parks Authority owned sports fields across the street?

They use the parking lots for student parking, but those are little league-size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What eastern high schools are over capacity besides West Springfield?

Marshall, McLean, Edison and, depending on how you define "eastern," Woodson are all projected to be over capacity in 2029.

And that's based on projections that don't take some additional expected growth into account.

And robinson is weirdly massively under capacity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What eastern high schools are over capacity besides West Springfield?

Marshall, McLean, Edison and, depending on how you define "eastern," Woodson are all projected to be over capacity in 2029.

And that's based on projections that don't take some additional expected growth into account.

And robinson is weirdly massively under capacity

Isn't Edison very close to underenrolled Lewis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't any excess capacity at any of the HS that surround the KAA site. Westfield (2800+ kids), Chantilly (3000 kids) and Centreville (2600 kids) are full (and Westfield has a ton of multifamily projects being built in its borders). Herndon does have some space but again, that capacity will be eaten up by housing projects being built. South Lakes is further away, but also full. Oakton? Full.

The families in this area have put up with crowded schools and mega schools while other areas got nice renovations for schools that weren't even close to capacity, because they were promised a new high school 20 years ago and every year since in the budget.

This is a golden opportunity and FCPS was so smart to jump on it. I honestly can't believe they did something so smart.

Since this new school won't be available for a while, it makes sense to look at forecasts not current enrollments. For 2029 FCPS is projecting:

Herndon: 69% capacity and 861 extra seats

Madison: 92% capacity and 186 extra seats

Oakton: 95% capacity and 127 extra seats

South Lakes: 100% capacity and no extra seats

Centreville: 69% capacity and 921 extra seats (assuming the expansion to 3000; if there were no expansion, it would have 45 extra seats; if it were expanded to 2500, it would have 421 extra seats)

Chantilly: 98% capacity and 40 extra seats

Westfield: 97% capacity and 98 extra seats

So please stop exaggerating the expected enrollments at these schools or asserting they will all be at full capacity. Also keep in mind that FCPS has historically said that up to 105% capacity was acceptable, and these forecasts predate DOGE and the Trump Administration's efforts to reduce local federal jobs.

That's a lot of surplus capacity in the aggregate. Sure, there is growth in parts of western Fairfax but there is also growth in other parts of the county and student yields can vary depending on the type of new housing.

or just can’t look at four years from now. I live in 20171 where a lot of the neighborhoods were built 30-40 years ago and are just now starting to turn over. Our neighborhood of 100 houses is mostly retirees who will be moving out I. The next five to ten years and guess who will be buying? Young couples and young families. The surrounding neighborhoods are very similar. You can’t just look at projections for the next four years and new construction. Boomers are retiring in droves and these neighborhoods will soon be turning over like hotcakes. Tons of children in those high schools in 20 years. Especially this new one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't any excess capacity at any of the HS that surround the KAA site. Westfield (2800+ kids), Chantilly (3000 kids) and Centreville (2600 kids) are full (and Westfield has a ton of multifamily projects being built in its borders). Herndon does have some space but again, that capacity will be eaten up by housing projects being built. South Lakes is further away, but also full. Oakton? Full.

The families in this area have put up with crowded schools and mega schools while other areas got nice renovations for schools that weren't even close to capacity, because they were promised a new high school 20 years ago and every year since in the budget.

This is a golden opportunity and FCPS was so smart to jump on it. I honestly can't believe they did something so smart.

Since this new school won't be available for a while, it makes sense to look at forecasts not current enrollments. For 2029 FCPS is projecting:

Herndon: 69% capacity and 861 extra seats

Madison: 92% capacity and 186 extra seats

Oakton: 95% capacity and 127 extra seats

South Lakes: 100% capacity and no extra seats

Centreville: 69% capacity and 921 extra seats (assuming the expansion to 3000; if there were no expansion, it would have 45 extra seats; if it were expanded to 2500, it would have 421 extra seats)

Chantilly: 98% capacity and 40 extra seats

Westfield: 97% capacity and 98 extra seats

So please stop exaggerating the expected enrollments at these schools or asserting they will all be at full capacity. Also keep in mind that FCPS has historically said that up to 105% capacity was acceptable, and these forecasts predate DOGE and the Trump Administration's efforts to reduce local federal jobs.

That's a lot of surplus capacity in the aggregate. Sure, there is growth in parts of western Fairfax but there is also growth in other parts of the county and student yields can vary depending on the type of new housing.

or just can’t look at four years from now. I live in 20171 where a lot of the neighborhoods were built 30-40 years ago and are just now starting to turn over. Our neighborhood of 100 houses is mostly retirees who will be moving out I. The next five to ten years and guess who will be buying? Young couples and young families. The surrounding neighborhoods are very similar. You can’t just look at projections for the next four years and new construction. Boomers are retiring in droves and these neighborhoods will soon be turning over like hotcakes. Tons of children in those high schools in 20 years. Especially this new one.

Why especially this new one? Logic seems self-serving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Not everything is a conspiracy. FCPS made a mistake when selling this land and corrected it. It's been on the books to have a high school there for 20 or 30 years. There is no conspiracy.

Citizens asking for good governance and stewardship of taxpayer money are not conspiracy theorists.

When some of those citizens live less than 3 miles from one school and 13 miles from the school they currently attend, it is hard to justify the "taxpayer money" issue.

Purchasing this school IS good stewardship of taxpayer money:

1. It reduces bus transportation costs. THRU is adding MORE students to 30 minute bus rides. Hundreds of students are already being sent on these bus rides. Thru will add many more.
2. It reduces schools that the School Board claims are overcrowded.
3. It eliminates a very huge attendance island.
4. It reduces constant boundary adjustments of the community.
5. It keeps neighborhoods together that THRU plans to split.

Oh, you’re the poster that would rubber stamp $150 million because you dislike great falls. Big surprise. 🙄

DP but I am fine with the purchase because $150 million for a ready built building is a lot less then the over $400 million and multiple years to build option. I like saving time and money. And I don't see it as rubber stamping when the Western HS has been discussed for 20 or so years and no progress has been made.

A pro for me is that there is a chance my kid might end up there. Another pro, even if my kid doesn't end up there, the other schools int eh area will see a drop in enrollment opening up good pupil placement options that don't exist right now.

And I don't buy for a second that the Great Falls group is up in arms with the procedure that was used. Great Falls likes to present themselves as the champion for everyone but the reality is that all they care about is not moving to Herndon. If they can spin it so it looks like they are against all movement, then great, but the level of protest sure seemed to drop once they sae that Great Falls wasn't moving. And now that there is the possibility of a new school that would reduce overcrowding in the area and they are all worried about procedure. My guess is that GF is in part worried about more space at Herndon and a desire to move kids to Herndon and in part worried that they will only get a renovation and not an expansion because there is now space at Herndon.

GF is for GF and only GF. And that is fine, pretty much everyone is looking out for what they see as their kids interests and less worried about what happens to other schools. The difference is that the other groups are honest about it.

The GF people are smart enough to realize that merely objecting to the possibility of GF getting moved to Herndon isn't a winning strategy. So they've very sensibly framed their concerns in broader terms that appeal to people in other pyramids AND they've been more than willing to continue to do legwork on behalf of others even when the boundary consultant's recommendations didn't include moving anyone out of Langley. If they were your School Board representative or member of Congress you'd say they are very good at constituent service.

I would contrast that with the attitude of the those near KAA who, once they got wind of the KAA acquisition, have made it clear they only care about getting a new school in their neighborhood and don't care about anyone else. They don't care if other renovation projects now get deferred. They don't care if other areas with facilities needs continue to get ignored. They don't care if there is already excess capacity at some schools in western Fairfax. They don't want to hear any questions that the utlimate price tag could be well in excess of $150M. All they want is their new school and they want it NOW.

You do realize that we have been asking for a new HS for over 20 years and that the number of schools that are at the 99th percentile or higher capacity is near 100%? This si not a new topic, it has been around for ages. We would not be talking about massive boundary shifts if the HS had been built when it was first proposed. And there probably wouldn't ahve been the expansions at the schools that you have seen. I started this topic in February when the school first shut down. I am shocked that FCPS did the sane thing and bought the building. It is long overdue.

It also saves money for the County allowing for renovations because the cost is less than half the projected cost to build a new building. And it removes the need for expansions. It provides relief to Westfield and Oakton. It could provide relief to Chantilly and maybe SLHS. That means it is serving to help 4 large communities and save money.

No one buys that GF cares about anything other then GF. You just said that they framed their concerns in a large view to obscure that all that mattered to them was not moving to Herndon.
And now the protest about the cost has little to do with transparency and more to do with the renovation, which McLean very much needs, potentially being pushed back. Now GF is all worried about the kids at ES that are undergoing renovations and how they might be harmed. It is all a big PR stunt geared towards McLean and Langley getting what they want and screw everyone else.

McLean should get a renovation. It shouldn't be expanded, just like Centerville should be renovated but doesn't need an expansion. And the money saved from those expansions will help to pay for the new school, that has been needed for years. That was in the CIP as a future project for years. And that means that there are seats in other close by schools that the GF families don't want to move to.

Hate to break it to you but the eastern part of the county needs capacity relief way more than western. So you are good with the western school that the school board never allocated make than 25 millions for. And they have not said how they will fund operating expenses since they are can’t afford current expenses without a new school. And McLean and centreville should kiss expansions goodbye. Maybe centreville with this school but not McLean

Well, KAA isn't in the eastern part of the county and ot can't just magically be moved there, so I'm confused about why you're even bringing up the eastern side of the county.

DP. Because they don’t have a separate eastern Fairfax and western Fairfax renovation queue, so when western takes $150 million, it has knock in effects all over the county.

Western high school has been in the CIP in the queue before those eastern renovations this whole time. Your argument hinges on jumping it in the queue and spending that money first. You are just upset that a site fell in the boards' lap at 1/3 the price and there is no logical argument you can even take against it that makes any sense.

WTF are you babbling about? The site acquisition is in the CIP, but the actual build is just constantly kicked into the future, because they had no location. How can one be so confident yet so wrong?

It boggles my mind that anyone would be against basic accountability, but here you are. I find it really funny that you think buying a building that blows a multi-year hole in the renovation queue should be beyond scrutiny.

You are the reason that we purportedly have school board stripper junkets. You probably think they should avoiding asking questions about that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't any excess capacity at any of the HS that surround the KAA site. Westfield (2800+ kids), Chantilly (3000 kids) and Centreville (2600 kids) are full (and Westfield has a ton of multifamily projects being built in its borders). Herndon does have some space but again, that capacity will be eaten up by housing projects being built. South Lakes is further away, but also full. Oakton? Full.

The families in this area have put up with crowded schools and mega schools while other areas got nice renovations for schools that weren't even close to capacity, because they were promised a new high school 20 years ago and every year since in the budget.

This is a golden opportunity and FCPS was so smart to jump on it. I honestly can't believe they did something so smart.

Since this new school won't be available for a while, it makes sense to look at forecasts not current enrollments. For 2029 FCPS is projecting:

Herndon: 69% capacity and 861 extra seats

Madison: 92% capacity and 186 extra seats

Oakton: 95% capacity and 127 extra seats

South Lakes: 100% capacity and no extra seats

Centreville: 69% capacity and 921 extra seats (assuming the expansion to 3000; if there were no expansion, it would have 45 extra seats; if it were expanded to 2500, it would have 421 extra seats)

Chantilly: 98% capacity and 40 extra seats

Westfield: 97% capacity and 98 extra seats

So please stop exaggerating the expected enrollments at these schools or asserting they will all be at full capacity. Also keep in mind that FCPS has historically said that up to 105% capacity was acceptable, and these forecasts predate DOGE and the Trump Administration's efforts to reduce local federal jobs.

That's a lot of surplus capacity in the aggregate. Sure, there is growth in parts of western Fairfax but there is also growth in other parts of the county and student yields can vary depending on the type of new housing.

or just can’t look at four years from now. I live in 20171 where a lot of the neighborhoods were built 30-40 years ago and are just now starting to turn over. Our neighborhood of 100 houses is mostly retirees who will be moving out I. The next five to ten years and guess who will be buying? Young couples and young families. The surrounding neighborhoods are very similar. You can’t just look at projections for the next four years and new construction. Boomers are retiring in droves and these neighborhoods will soon be turning over like hotcakes. Tons of children in those high schools in 20 years. Especially this new one.

I live in 20171 and our neighborhood might be 5-10 years ahead of yours. Most of our older neighbors seem to be aging in place. Downsizing is expensive due to interest rates, and a lot of the family/friends are here. They have the money for renovations and are doing the kinds of things you do if you are staying put for a long time (e.g. new back porch with a hot tub). I wouldn’t assume everyone or even half of the older folks will be moving out. The price point isn’t so favorable to young families either. And a lot of people who can afford a home in 20171 just opt for something newer and bigger in Loudoun since many are commuting along the tech corridor anyway. Long story short I wouldn’t necessarily assume a huge turnover because there are a lot of factors at play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chantilly has a really small acreage compared to other Western schools.

KAA campus is 40 acres, per KAA website on facilities.
Chantilly is about 30 acres. SLHS is close to 50 acres,
Westfield HS is 159 acres, per wikipedia

So I guess Western HS could be a full blown HS with 2000 kids.

[Anonymous]

There is no question that the KAA campus is plenty big enough for a reasonable sized high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What eastern high schools are over capacity besides West Springfield?

Marshall, McLean, Edison and, depending on how you define "eastern," Woodson are all projected to be over capacity in 2029.

And that's based on projections that don't take some additional expected growth into account.

And robinson is weirdly massively under capacity

Isn't Edison very close to underenrolled Lewis?

Yes and there is room to adjust the boundaries there if needed. Lots of options for where to send Edison kids if/when all the development over there comes online. Not just Lewis, but also Hayfield could pick up students, and West Potomac if they end up sending some to MVHS.

[Anonymous]

What type of magnet school is contemplated for the site? Is it possible that it might be an academy? Any chance that it might be a magnet and a regular school combined?

[Anonymous]

Chantilly has a baseball diamond on its campus. Very little spectator seating, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What type of magnet school is contemplated for the site? Is it possible that it might be an academy? Any chance that it might be a magnet and a regular school combined?

No, it will be the western HS that has been promised. We don't need a magnet school this far west. Maybe they add a mini-magnet to Oakton and allow our kids a decent commute to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chantilly has a really small acreage compared to other Western schools.

KAA campus is 40 acres, per KAA website on facilities.
Chantilly is about 30 acres. SLHS is close to 50 acres,
Westfield HS is 159 acres, per wikipedia

So I guess Western HS could be a full blown HS with 2000 kids.

Don't forget that it's right next door to Carson, they can share land and facilities if need be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol. Not everything is a conspiracy. FCPS made a mistake when selling this land and corrected it. It's been on the books to have a high school there for 20 or 30 years. There is no conspiracy.

Citizens asking for good governance and stewardship of taxpayer money are not conspiracy theorists.

When some of those citizens live less than 3 miles from one school and 13 miles from the school they currently attend, it is hard to justify the "taxpayer money" issue.

Purchasing this school IS good stewardship of taxpayer money:

1. It reduces bus transportation costs. THRU is adding MORE students to 30 minute bus rides. Hundreds of students are already being sent on these bus rides. Thru will add many more.
2. It reduces schools that the School Board claims are overcrowded.
3. It eliminates a very huge attendance island.
4. It reduces constant boundary adjustments of the community.
5. It keeps neighborhoods together that THRU plans to split.

Oh, you’re the poster that would rubber stamp $150 million because you dislike great falls. Big surprise. 🙄

DP but I am fine with the purchase because $150 million for a ready built building is a lot less then the over $400 million and multiple years to build option. I like saving time and money. And I don't see it as rubber stamping when the Western HS has been discussed for 20 or so years and no progress has been made.

A pro for me is that there is a chance my kid might end up there. Another pro, even if my kid doesn't end up there, the other schools int eh area will see a drop in enrollment opening up good pupil placement options that don't exist right now.

And I don't buy for a second that the Great Falls group is up in arms with the procedure that was used. Great Falls likes to present themselves as the champion for everyone but the reality is that all they care about is not moving to Herndon. If they can spin it so it looks like they are against all movement, then great, but the level of protest sure seemed to drop once they sae that Great Falls wasn't moving. And now that there is the possibility of a new school that would reduce overcrowding in the area and they are all worried about procedure. My guess is that GF is in part worried about more space at Herndon and a desire to move kids to Herndon and in part worried that they will only get a renovation and not an expansion because there is now space at Herndon.

GF is for GF and only GF. And that is fine, pretty much everyone is looking out for what they see as their kids interests and less worried about what happens to other schools. The difference is that the other groups are honest about it.

The GF people are smart enough to realize that merely objecting to the possibility of GF getting moved to Herndon isn't a winning strategy. So they've very sensibly framed their concerns in broader terms that appeal to people in other pyramids AND they've been more than willing to continue to do legwork on behalf of others even when the boundary consultant's recommendations didn't include moving anyone out of Langley. If they were your School Board representative or member of Congress you'd say they are very good at constituent service.

I would contrast that with the attitude of the those near KAA who, once they got wind of the KAA acquisition, have made it clear they only care about getting a new school in their neighborhood and don't care about anyone else. They don't care if other renovation projects now get deferred. They don't care if other areas with facilities needs continue to get ignored. They don't care if there is already excess capacity at some schools in western Fairfax. They don't want to hear any questions that the utlimate price tag could be well in excess of $150M. All they want is their new school and they want it NOW.

You do realize that we have been asking for a new HS for over 20 years and that the number of schools that are at the 99th percentile or higher capacity is near 100%? This si not a new topic, it has been around for ages. We would not be talking about massive boundary shifts if the HS had been built when it was first proposed. And there probably wouldn't ahve been the expansions at the schools that you have seen. I started this topic in February when the school first shut down. I am shocked that FCPS did the sane thing and bought the building. It is long overdue.

It also saves money for the County allowing for renovations because the cost is less than half the projected cost to build a new building. And it removes the need for expansions. It provides relief to Westfield and Oakton. It could provide relief to Chantilly and maybe SLHS. That means it is serving to help 4 large communities and save money.

No one buys that GF cares about anything other then GF. You just said that they framed their concerns in a large view to obscure that all that mattered to them was not moving to Herndon.
And now the protest about the cost has little to do with transparency and more to do with the renovation, which McLean very much needs, potentially being pushed back. Now GF is all worried about the kids at ES that are undergoing renovations and how they might be harmed. It is all a big PR stunt geared towards McLean and Langley getting what they want and screw everyone else.

McLean should get a renovation. It shouldn't be expanded, just like Centerville should be renovated but doesn't need an expansion. And the money saved from those expansions will help to pay for the new school, that has been needed for years. That was in the CIP as a future project for years. And that means that there are seats in other close by schools that the GF families don't want to move to.

Hate to break it to you but the eastern part of the county needs capacity relief way more than western. So you are good with the western school that the school board never allocated make than 25 millions for. And they have not said how they will fund operating expenses since they are can’t afford current expenses without a new school. And McLean and centreville should kiss expansions goodbye. Maybe centreville with this school but not McLean

Well, KAA isn't in the eastern part of the county and ot can't just magically be moved there, so I'm confused about why you're even bringing up the eastern side of the county.

DP. Because they don’t have a separate eastern Fairfax and western Fairfax renovation queue, so when western takes $150 million, it has knock in effects all over the county.

Western high school has been in the CIP in the queue before those eastern renovations this whole time. Your argument hinges on jumping it in the queue and spending that money first. You are just upset that a site fell in the boards' lap at 1/3 the price and there is no logical argument you can even take against it that makes any sense.

WTF are you babbling about? The site acquisition is in the CIP, but the actual build is just constantly kicked into the future, because they had no location. How can one be so confident yet so wrong?

It boggles my mind that anyone would be against basic accountability, but here you are. I find it really funny that you think buying a building that blows a multi-year hole in the renovation queue should be beyond scrutiny.

You are the reason that we purportedly have school board stripper junkets. You probably think they should avoiding asking questions about that too.

Oh my gosh, please stop with the conspiracy theories.