Swim Meet Relay Policy? What is your summer teams relay policy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do most teams require the coach to use ranked times for individual events too? That had always been our team policy but we have a new coach and he skipped a swimmer in one event (but not another event) for today’s meet. And not even back to back events - he skipped her in free and is swimming her in breast. Seems like it would be terrible for morale.

You don't always swim the fastest swimmer since you are limited on events. Coaches swim the top swimmers in each stroke/age/gender which is usually the top six. If you know the other team has a faster swimmer and you can't pick up points with your fastest swimmer, you might move them to other strokes and swim one of your slower swimmers - but still top six generally.

This. In DDs age group, the same two swimmers are the top two in all four strokes, and another swimmer is #3 in three of them, #4 in the fourth. But each kid can only swim two strokes, so when putting together the line up for a meet, the coach is going to have to skip someone somewhere and move down to #s 4-6. Where that happens can change week to week as the coach looks at the best way to earn points against the other team. As pp said, if it's highly unlikely that even the best swimmer will score in one stroke it makes sense to move them somewhere they have a better chance.

Yep. This is where new parents always get confused. Billy might be the fastest in X but the other team has Jonny and he is faster than Billy. Billy can be used in stroke Y and pick up points there. You can use a throw away againt Jonny, and maybe pick up 2nd or 3rd. It gets more interesting when you know a team has a strong cadre of swimmers in a stroke you might throw points. The seeding is complicated and involves a lot of data and looking at the team you are swimming against.

I agree, my son swims for an MCSL team. He was the top seed for each individual event for his age group. At one point he swam back, breast, and fly because that is where he could gain extra points over the other team. The remaining swimmers in his age group weren’t legal in all of the strokes but they could swim freestyle. Fortunately he was still able to swim in the graduated relay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 Big difference between year round swimmers who participate in mentoring or coaching other kids, participating in team events like pep rallies and might not swim a lot but are otherwise engaged with the team versus... kids who don't do any of that and just do the Saturday A meets.

Maybe, but I got to say, as the parent of an 18 year old coach who practices exclusively with summer club but is obviously very involved with summer team as a junior coach. Should she not swim at the A meets? This arbitrary judgment some of you want to apply to decide who is a "good enough summer team member is absurd." it's "competitive swimming," the fastest swimmers will swim the A meets. It's pretty simple. This is not a "trophy for trying" situation. Furthermore, you may not see the whole picture if you have not known these kids for years. Things change over time, their interests change, they get jobs, take driver's ed, take summer school, go to sleep away camp, become camp counselors. I don't see any reason to "kick them off the island" when this stuff happens. The summer team community is important to many of them, even if they just dabble in and out for a few years and don't want to give it up because the memories are important. So what??? They aren't taking anything from your kids that they haven't earned by being faster. Being faster is the criteria for swimming at A meets. I don't think you'll find many pools that use another criteria, but feel free to create your own club that assigns lanes based on practice attendance. (I'm not sure enough parents would agree with you to form a team, but maybe there are like-minded folks out there).

I think this is where you and many other parents differ. Summer swim for many swim teams is a trophy for trying type of activity. You have legitimate reasons to disagree but please check your condescending attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 Big difference between year round swimmers who participate in mentoring or coaching other kids, participating in team events like pep rallies and might not swim a lot but are otherwise engaged with the team versus... kids who don't do any of that and just do the Saturday A meets.

Maybe, but I got to say, as the parent of an 18 year old coach who practices exclusively with summer club but is obviously very involved with summer team as a junior coach. Should she not swim at the A meets? This arbitrary judgment some of you want to apply to decide who is a "good enough summer team member is absurd." it's "competitive swimming," the fastest swimmers will swim the A meets. It's pretty simple. This is not a "trophy for trying" situation. Furthermore, you may not see the whole picture if you have not known these kids for years. Things change over time, their interests change, they get jobs, take driver's ed, take summer school, go to sleep away camp, become camp counselors. I don't see any reason to "kick them off the island" when this stuff happens. The summer team community is important to many of them, even if they just dabble in and out for a few years and don't want to give it up because the memories are important. So what??? They aren't taking anything from your kids that they haven't earned by being faster. Being faster is the criteria for swimming at A meets. I don't think you'll find many pools that use another criteria, but feel free to create your own club that assigns lanes based on practice attendance. (I'm not sure enough parents would agree with you to form a team, but maybe there are like-minded folks out there).

I think this is where you and many other parents differ. Summer swim for many swim teams is a trophy for trying type of activity. You have legitimate reasons to disagree but please check your condescending attitude.

I don't mean to be condescending, just stating the obvious fact. Competitive swimming is competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 Big difference between year round swimmers who participate in mentoring or coaching other kids, participating in team events like pep rallies and might not swim a lot but are otherwise engaged with the team versus... kids who don't do any of that and just do the Saturday A meets.

Maybe, but I got to say, as the parent of an 18 year old coach who practices exclusively with summer club but is obviously very involved with summer team as a junior coach. Should she not swim at the A meets? This arbitrary judgment some of you want to apply to decide who is a "good enough summer team member is absurd." it's "competitive swimming," the fastest swimmers will swim the A meets. It's pretty simple. This is not a "trophy for trying" situation. Furthermore, you may not see the whole picture if you have not known these kids for years. Things change over time, their interests change, they get jobs, take driver's ed, take summer school, go to sleep away camp, become camp counselors. I don't see any reason to "kick them off the island" when this stuff happens. The summer team community is important to many of them, even if they just dabble in and out for a few years and don't want to give it up because the memories are important. So what??? They aren't taking anything from your kids that they haven't earned by being faster. Being faster is the criteria for swimming at A meets. I don't think you'll find many pools that use another criteria, but feel free to create your own club that assigns lanes based on practice attendance. (I'm not sure enough parents would agree with you to form a team, but maybe there are like-minded folks out there).

I think this is where you and many other parents differ. Summer swim for many swim teams is a trophy for trying type of activity. You have legitimate reasons to disagree but please check your condescending attitude.

I don't mean to be condescending, just stating the obvious fact. Competitive swimming is competitive.

The PP's complaints about the year-round swimmers sound like an effort to eliminate the competition, so their kid can get in the A meets. Isn't it that being hyper-competitive? If you don't care about the competition, you should participate in the B meets and not worry about getting bumped out of the A meets. The great thing about swimming is that you can focus on both personal improvement and on the competitive aspect of the races. This is true at both A and B meets. Kids are racing to improve their strokes and their personal best times and they are racing other swimmers. Most kids who swim have been bumped out of an A meet, blocked out of divisionals, bumped off the relay, etc. That is part of the experience and it can be disappointing. When faced with this sort of disappointment for my kid, I try to remind myself that "lessons in managing disappointment" are very valuable. Kids need them to develop resilience. Complaining that the other kids are too good and shouldn't be allowed to compete, sends the wrong message.

[Anonymous]

What complaints?
I really didn't see anyone complaining. There have been what looks like a few people posting different ideas about how this does and should work.

I pointed out that a great many families see summer swim as fun and while it can be competitive for some swimmers it's not the main point for most. I'm one of the PPs who thinks coaches can be flexible on who gets to participate in A meets and it's okay if it isn't always be about top times. I'm completely okay if it is all about top times, but philosophically I would agree with a coach who has a more flexible approach.

There seems to be one parent who takes great offense at the idea that other kids should be given opportunities over her prodigy swimmer and that everyone else is a loser.

FWIW, I do have a year round swimmer so this is not about my child. I just have a different view of competition than her. She seems to attack anyone who has a different view, maybe out of insecurity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ours does it by ladder. The problem I see is that most NVSL relays kids swim 25s, but our ladder is 50s. Plenty of kids could be higher on a 25 ladder becuase rhey have weak turns or lower endurance. Any pools have a separate 25 ladder?

Before relay carnival our pool will often to an inter squad meet solely to get 25m times for all the kids who typically swim 50s .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ours does it by ladder. The problem I see is that most NVSL relays kids swim 25s, but our ladder is 50s. Plenty of kids could be higher on a 25 ladder becuase rhey have weak turns or lower endurance. Any pools have a separate 25 ladder?

Before relay carnival our pool will often to an inter squad meet solely to get 25m times for all the kids who typically swim 50s .

Our pool does not, but I would love for all kids to just do 25s. Fun, fast, and quickly over!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ours does it by ladder. The problem I see is that most NVSL relays kids swim 25s, but our ladder is 50s. Plenty of kids could be higher on a 25 ladder becuase rhey have weak turns or lower endurance. Any pools have a separate 25 ladder?

Before relay carnival our pool will often to an inter squad meet solely to get 25m times for all the kids who typically swim 50s .

Our pool does not, but I would love for all kids to just do 25s. Fun, fast, and quickly over!

I think it’s a great idea. In Masters swimming there is a sprint invitational (or at least there was in the past; I think hosted by GMU?). It’s really fun to do 25s when you are used to doing 50s and 100s. And in this case it sounds like it would give useful info. Of course if does add another meet to the schedule.

[Anonymous]

If your kid is a year round swimmer who always gets in A meets it might be nice to have your kid skip an A meet at some point just to give other kids a chance. Maybe one against a team your team normally beats easily. Like plan a trip or something for that weekend. My kid is turning out to be an A meet swimmer and I think it kind of works out that we will be out of town for at least one A meet because it will give some other kids a chance. As a former year round swimmer I remember some of the resentment thrown my way by high school and summer teammates because they hardly ever saw me at practice but I was always top seed in my events and on relays at the meets. In retrospect it would not have hurt at all to miss a summer league meet or two each season just to open up spots in the lineup for someone who feels like they’re never going to get a shot. It’s something I’m going to keep in mind if my kid sticks with swimming and stays an A meet swimmer. If we end up having a conflict some weekend I won’t go out of my way to prioritize the swim meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is a year round swimmer who always gets in A meets it might be nice to have your kid skip an A meet at some point just to give other kids a chance. Maybe one against a team your team normally beats easily. Like plan a trip or something for that weekend. My kid is turning out to be an A meet swimmer and I think it kind of works out that we will be out of town for at least one A meet because it will give some other kids a chance. As a former year round swimmer I remember some of the resentment thrown my way by high school and summer teammates because they hardly ever saw me at practice but I was always top seed in my events and on relays at the meets. In retrospect it would not have hurt at all to miss a summer league meet or two each season just to open up spots in the lineup for someone who feels like they’re never going to get a shot. It’s something I’m going to keep in mind if my kid sticks with swimming and stays an A meet swimmer. If we end up having a conflict some weekend I won’t go out of my way to prioritize the swim meet.

Or you do practices and participate on team. They should require 2-3 practices a week to compete.

[Anonymous]

Out family is new to swim. Are these relay swims important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out family is new to swim. Are these relay swims important?

In a scored meet, they are generally an opportunity for higher points than an individual event

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is a year round swimmer who always gets in A meets it might be nice to have your kid skip an A meet at some point just to give other kids a chance. Maybe one against a team your team normally beats easily. Like plan a trip or something for that weekend. My kid is turning out to be an A meet swimmer and I think it kind of works out that we will be out of town for at least one A meet because it will give some other kids a chance. As a former year round swimmer I remember some of the resentment thrown my way by high school and summer teammates because they hardly ever saw me at practice but I was always top seed in my events and on relays at the meets. In retrospect it would not have hurt at all to miss a summer league meet or two each season just to open up spots in the lineup for someone who feels like they’re never going to get a shot. It’s something I’m going to keep in mind if my kid sticks with swimming and stays an A meet swimmer. If we end up having a conflict some weekend I won’t go out of my way to prioritize the swim meet.

Or you do practices and participate on team. They should require 2-3 practices a week to compete.

I actually did go to a decent number of the summer practices because they were after the early am club practices… at least once I was old enough to drive myself. But it was impossible in HS because the practices were at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Out family is new to swim. Are these relay swims important?

In a scored meet, they are generally an opportunity for higher points than an individual event

Yep, and because of this they can what determines a close meet. Relays are the best part of summer swim from a spectator standpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out family is new to swim. Are these relay swims important?

I think they’re just fun but even in NVSL it’s more competitive to get on than getting to an A meet. Only the top 4 in an age group do the relay.