Gentrification shaming makes no sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

You're created a stereotype in your head that allows you to make sweeping arguments, with little basis in reality. So people who live in a 1 BR who have kids are gross because they want more space?

You're an idiot.

Yikes, take your lithium. DCUM is full of people talking about how 3 bedroom, two bath historic home should be knocked down so they can put up a McMansion to horde the endless piles of stuff they shop shop shop for on the regular. There is absolutely no reason "modern living" can't be accomplished is 2000 SF, particularly with the digitization of content.

[Anonymous]

This happens everywhere, not just the cities. To think that people should feel guilt about moving somewhere that they feel is best for their families is absurd. What if 20-30 years ago, white PG residents said the same about the influx of UMC/MC African American families? Or white MC NOVA residents complaining about the new comers driving up property values and taxes in what used to be some sort of old south paradise? To complain would be stupid and make no sense because times change and real estate is all about supply and demand. It sucks that people get priced out and can’t live where they grew up, but that’s life. Buyers shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about doing what people do all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

I grew up in public housing and i love my my pretty yard and and my big kitchen. I think you’re pretty gross.

That's totally fine - I too grew up as a FARMS student, but, it's totally normal for other people to look at people who ascribe to the "bigger, better, shinier" world view as tacky AF.

You think it's normal to believe you are the arbiter of what is big enough, and nice enough, and people who don't agree with you are tacky AF?

No, it isn't. Your parents did a crappy job with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Long post, sorry. A lot of thoughts. I am a white gentrifier in DC. I don't say that with pride, but I also don't say it from a place of guilt, either. Like OP, we are a white couple who bought in a predominantly black neighborhood because we wanted to stay in the city, wanted a neighborhood that was close in with density and walkability, and had limited funds. But I know what we are. We knew it when we bought, and we were among the only white people around. And we really know it now that our block is more white than black and the general vibe of the neighborhood has changed.

I feel really conflicted about it because it certainly wasn't our intention to usher in an influx of UMC white people to the neighborhood. And we know it would have happened whether we had bought our home or not, because the gentrification trend in DC is bigger and more powerful than our individual choice. But I am also certain that some of new, white neighbors only felt comfortable buying here once we, and other like us, already had. We're part of it whether we want to be or not, because we are white and we are relatively economically privileged. We can't pretend we aren't because we've lived here longer or because we aren't as rich as the new neighbors.

I do think the advice in this thread about how to be a good neighbor is smart. Yes, do not call the cops on black people in your new, predominantly black neighborhood. If you can, send your kids to the neighborhood school and don't go in wanting to prioritize the needs of your UMC white kids over the needs of the many less privileged black and brown kids already attending the school. Get to know your neighbors. Participate in neighborhood clean ups. Say hi on the street! All of this is good.

But it's also more complex than that and I still don't know the answer. Now we feel caught in between at all times -- we are far more privileged than our original neighbors, many of whom are still around. But we're nowhere close to as privileged as our newest neighbors, mostly DINKs who paid close to a million for their row homes and have very high expectations for the kind of lifestyle and amenities their neighborhood should offer at that price point. We were happy when the WF and the TJs went in. We are glad the schools are improving. We like having more bars and restaurants going in, though increasingly they are too expensive for us and we wonder if we, too, are being priced out of the neighborhood.

I'd like to see more policy in DC that supports affordable housing, that supports a socioeconomic mix in neighborhoods and that leads to more development that benefits local businesses, especially black-owned businesses. We have actually worked with a couple organization that do just that, and it feels good. But when I compare it to the forces they are working against -- massive developers, wealthy professionals with money to burn and a newfound interest in a specific kind of urban lifestyle -- and I just feel like it might be too late to balance the scales.

We talk about moving again, seeing if we can find a close in suburbs that still has some density and real racial and socioeconomic diversity, but where prices aren't accelerating at quite the same rate and where we'd feel more kinship with our neighbors. I don't even know if one exists. I do think what's happening is unsustainable and I wish I knew th answer.

This is very thoughtful, and I appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

The real issue is lack of housing driving housing costs up. DC makes it so complicated and expensive to build new housing (plus fighting nimby campaigns is expensive) that, by the time housing is constructed, it must get a marble counter and be deemed "luxury".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

You're created a stereotype in your head that allows you to make sweeping arguments, with little basis in reality. So people who live in a 1 BR who have kids are gross because they want more space?

You're an idiot.

Yikes, take your lithium. DCUM is full of people talking about how 3 bedroom, two bath historic home should be knocked down so they can put up a McMansion to horde the endless piles of stuff they shop shop shop for on the regular. There is absolutely no reason "modern living" can't be accomplished is 2000 SF, particularly with the digitization of content.

This. There’s a lot of interesting graphs out there of how the size of the average home as changed over time. You are so correct. Couple what you said with the cost of heating and cooling and maintaining an unneeded large house and it’s a wasteful eco-unfriendly endeavor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

I grew up in public housing and i love my my pretty yard and and my big kitchen. I think you’re pretty gross.

That's totally fine - I too grew up as a FARMS student, but, it's totally normal for other people to look at people who ascribe to the "bigger, better, shinier" world view as tacky AF.

You think it's normal to believe you are the arbiter of what is big enough, and nice enough, and people who don't agree with you are tacky AF?

No, it isn't. Your parents did a crappy job with you.

Honestly, your parents gave you a very shaky moral core. You are the arbiter for what you think is appropriate. Others are the arbiters for what they think is appropriate. You are very judgmental - and yet think others shouldn't judge you...that's some serious mental gymnastics, Olga.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure that I 100% agree with this article, but it's definitely an interesting read: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/01/the-gentrification-myth-its-rare-and-not-as-bad-for-the-poor-as-people-think.html

Gentrification is complicated, and I don't think it makes sense to shame an individual because of a massive structural problem in society.

OP, what are your friends doing to correct housing and opportunity racial disparities? If the answer is nothing except being mean to you about your home purchase, then they are part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

I grew up in public housing and i love my my pretty yard and and my big kitchen. I think you’re pretty gross.

That's totally fine - I too grew up as a FARMS student, but, it's totally normal for other people to look at people who ascribe to the "bigger, better, shinier" world view as tacky AF.

You think it's normal to believe you are the arbiter of what is big enough, and nice enough, and people who don't agree with you are tacky AF?

No, it isn't. Your parents did a crappy job with you.

Honestly, your parents gave you a very shaky moral core. You are the arbiter for what you think is appropriate. Others are the arbiters for what they think is appropriate. You are very judgmental - and yet think others shouldn't judge you...that's some serious mental gymnastics, Olga.

Ah, the classic trope. "You are judging me for being judgmental! *You're* judgmental!"

Let's review:

You: Posted by several times that people who want larger houses than you deem appropriate are materialistic, wasteful, and "tacky AF."
Me: (and others, please don;t think that I'm the only one): Call you out on it
You: You are judgmental!

And to be clear, I have never posted about where people should live. If you want to live in a 1 BR condo in the city, go for it. If you want a 5 BR house in the burbs, be my guest. But you have some sort of arbitrary size limit that you've concocted, and if someone goes over that, they are "tacky AF."

So, I guess I am judging you for being an ass, and having the critical reasoning skills of a turnip. Guilty as charged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

I grew up in public housing and i love my my pretty yard and and my big kitchen. I think you’re pretty gross.

That's totally fine - I too grew up as a FARMS student, but, it's totally normal for other people to look at people who ascribe to the "bigger, better, shinier" world view as tacky AF.

You think it's normal to believe you are the arbiter of what is big enough, and nice enough, and people who don't agree with you are tacky AF?

No, it isn't. Your parents did a crappy job with you.

Honestly, your parents gave you a very shaky moral core. You are the arbiter for what you think is appropriate. Others are the arbiters for what they think is appropriate. You are very judgmental - and yet think others shouldn't judge you...that's some serious mental gymnastics, Olga.

Ah, the classic trope. "You are judging me for being judgmental! *You're* judgmental!"

Let's review:

You: Posted by several times that people who want larger houses than you deem appropriate are materialistic, wasteful, and "tacky AF."
Me: (and others, please don;t think that I'm the only one): Call you out on it
You: You are judgmental!

And to be clear, I have never posted about where people should live. If you want to live in a 1 BR condo in the city, go for it. If you want a 5 BR house in the burbs, be my guest. But you have some sort of arbitrary size limit that you've concocted, and if someone goes over that, they are "tacky AF."

So, I guess I am judging you for being an ass, and having the critical reasoning skills of a turnip. Guilty as charged.

Please don't think there is only one person calling you tacky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First off, if you bought a place in Columbia Heights in 2020, you aren't exactly on the leading edge of gentrification.

But more importantly, you're right. What do your friends say when you make these points to them?

1) This is sooooo true. 2) I bought a house in a poor neighborhood because it's what we could afford. Even so, as a white person, I knew that my moving in would be - in a small way - a step towards gentrification. But I also knew that if I didn't buy that house, someone else would - and that person would probably be a white gentrifier. It's not like you *not* buying the house would keep it from going to another gentrifier. 3) Given what's going on in this city, I don't know how you can buy anywhere without being part of gentrification, unless, as you noted, OP you move into a rich white area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First off, if you bought a place in Columbia Heights in 2020, you aren't exactly on the leading edge of gentrification.

But more importantly, you're right. What do your friends say when you make these points to them?

This!!!! I can't even get to the silly white guilt bit because this is too funny. It would be like someone buying in Brooklyn. NY and worrying that they discovered it. Yeesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people said rude stuff to us when we bought a starter house *gasp* a few miles outside the beltway (we work in the suburbs so it’s not even like we were commuting to DC). We got snarky comments about wanting the space of a house and not just staying in a small rental condo to be close to everything.

Fast forward 8 years and we made a bunch of money off that starter house while our friends were busy renting in DC/Arlington. Now we were able to buy a house in N Arlington thanks to our profits and in the meantime our friends who were renting got priced out of close-in neighborhoods and ended up *gasp* outside the beltway where they made fun of us for living.

FWIW, there’s nothing wrong with those neighborhoods where they moved. But it does irritate me a bit that when we lived just beyond 495 it was the “end of the world” and now that they live there they talk about how great it is.

My point being, focus on you. Any commentary from others is a reflection of their own issues as a PP pointed out.

People are always going to judge, regardless. I would absolutely judge anyone who used the phrase starter home as materialistic and wasteful, regardless of where they chose to live. We bought in a less desirable part of DC 20 years ago and have certainly reaped financial benefits for doing so. But urban living, even in a SFH with a large backyard has pluses and minuses, I would never live in Virginia, but Annapolis sounds nice. I wouldn't have said than 20 years ago, but as you get older, you do want more nature around you to decompress.

So anyone who buys a home just to get on the property ladder knowing that it isn’t where they want to be long term, and actually admits it is just a point of starting out is materialist and wasteful? That’s crazy. Most people can’t afford the house/location they really want with their first purchase and know a piece of real estate is just a means to an end. There’s nothing bad or materialistic about a starting point.

Kinda, yeah. People who refer to their homes as starter homes ARE usually materialistic and wasteful types who view home ownership as a ladder and think that they deserve HGTV-style living. It's like no one in their family had a home less than 3000 SF where children shared bedrooms and there was no "master suite." It's gross.

I’m the original poster who referred to our “starter home,” which came with a crappy commute and was 40 years old with “updates” done by the prior owners that we never would have picked ourselves. Our move up home, which we hope to stay in as kids grow and renovate over time, is 2200 sq ft and comes with a very short commute, walkable amenities, and great neighborhood where we plan to stay, but only 1 upstairs bathroom that we share with our kids. The kitchen hasn’t been updated since the early 1980s and doesn’t even have backsplash. So take your HGTV materialistic stereotype and shove it. The vast majority of people I know who didn’t have lots of family help started out in older townhomes or small city condos or houses far from their jobs with the hopes of saving up for something that meets what they want longer term as income goes up, student loans get paid off, and childcare expenses go down.

The fact you are unfamiliar with “starter homes” in this area makes me think you’re incredibly out of touch. You’re probably some boomer who never had to compete with buying in a tight market. Or you live nowhere near DC.

[Anonymous]

We talk about moving again, seeing if we can find a close in suburbs that still has some density and real racial and socioeconomic diversity, but where prices aren't accelerating at quite the same rate and where we'd feel more kinship with our neighbors. I don't even know if one exists. I do think what's happening is unsustainable and I wish I knew th answer.

Close-in Silver Spring 20910! Dense, racially and economically diverse, and very friendly.

[Anonymous]

Oh my stars! It doesn’t even have a BACKSPLASH?! How have you been feeding your family?