MoCo Question B would be a disaster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the problem is that before you can vote them out, they may have already voted to raise taxes and not be good stewards of the tax funds.

No the problem is that Question B is permanent. A tax increase is not. They change the tax rate every year. You just don't like the will of the voters, and want to subvert it without caring how it will impact the county's finances or the critical services it provides

To add, making rules about tax revenues that are divorced from a community's needs for public services and infrastructure is the definition of fiscally irresponsible. Republicans do this at the federal level and it has resulted in huge deficits. At the local level the result will be worse. Kirwan is coming - how do you think they will find universal prek? It will come out of schools projects. Get used to portables.

[Anonymous]

Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

Meh, that's how you figure out what's important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

Meh, that's how you figure out what's important.

Okay. So at the federal level, we've learned that massive deficits are what's important. Counties can't do that.

[Anonymous]

Robin was canvassing once and came up to me with this idea. I had no idea who he was. I asked him "what if we want to do more things?" and he said "then we'll have to cut something else." That's a terrible idea idea, I told him. And he frowned and walked on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Robin was canvassing once and came up to me with this idea. I had no idea who he was. I asked him "what if we want to do more things?" and he said "then we'll have to cut something else." That's a terrible idea idea, I told him. And he frowned and walked on.

+1 I saw him in Rockville Town Center a few weeks ago. No mask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

Meh, that's how you figure out what's important.

Okay. So at the federal level, we've learned that massive deficits are what's important. Counties can't do that.

I think that's my point. Counties can't keep writing blank checks unlike the federal government, so they will have to prioritize and cut the less important stuff. The federal government doesn't have to do that because they just print more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

Meh, that's how you figure out what's important.

Okay. So at the federal level, we've learned that massive deficits are what's important. Counties can't do that.

I think that's my point. Counties can't keep writing blank checks unlike the federal government, so they will have to prioritize and cut the less important stuff. The federal government doesn't have to do that because they just print more money.

Actually what will happen is that the county won't be able to fund things that are important. And it will be even harder to put money into the rainy day fund that is saving our a$$ right now (the one the Council prioritized). There will be more economic downturns in the future, and it's not going to be pretty for us if we limit our revenues like this. That's why bond-rating agencies don't like these types of limits.

"The strictest tax limitations, like the original implementation of the TABOR rule in Colorado, can prevent states from saving revenues in rainy day funds to cushion against downturns. Randall and Rueben (2017) synthesized decades of research on TELs and other budgetary institutions, concluding that states should reform TELs that prevent them from saving during good times. Rueben, Randall and Boddupalli (2018) found that, during the Great Recession, states with binding revenue limits or a combination of binding revenue and expenditure limits were more responsive to deficit shocks than states with weaker rules."
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-tax-and-expenditure-limits

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

Meh, that's how you figure out what's important.

Okay. So at the federal level, we've learned that massive deficits are what's important. Counties can't do that.

I think that's my point. Counties can't keep writing blank checks unlike the federal government, so they will have to prioritize and cut the less important stuff. The federal government doesn't have to do that because they just print more money.

Actually what will happen is that the county won't be able to fund things that are important. And it will be even harder to put money into the rainy day fund that is saving our a$$ right now (the one the Council prioritized). There will be more economic downturns in the future, and it's not going to be pretty for us if we limit our revenues like this. That's why bond-rating agencies don't like these types of limits.

"The strictest tax limitations, like the original implementation of the TABOR rule in Colorado, can prevent states from saving revenues in rainy day funds to cushion against downturns. Randall and Rueben (2017) synthesized decades of research on TELs and other budgetary institutions, concluding that states should reform TELs that prevent them from saving during good times. Rueben, Randall and Boddupalli (2018) found that, during the Great Recession, states with binding revenue limits or a combination of binding revenue and expenditure limits were more responsive to deficit shocks than states with weaker rules."
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-tax-and-expenditure-limits

The county just needs to live within its means. It can do that, it's done that in the past, not sure when everything became so bloated. I've seen road repairs on roads that don't need any work, while others just keep on growing potholes. Paying residents' cable TV expenses (internet is essential yes, but cable TV?). Massive spending on BRTs that are underutilized. Development moratoriums that shoot our own feet at growing the tax base. Moco has a state income tax, county income tax, and private property taxes. Fairfax/Arlington/Loudoun counties don't even have a county income tax, their state income tax rate is similar to MD, and they're all doing much better than Moco. Moco really needs to examine what it's doing with its money, and they won't do so unless their hand is forced. From the writing on the wall, Moco's bond rating is already going to get damaged anyway, it's not going to make much of a difference. Moco needs to study what's going on across the river instead of doubling down on what doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody wants to cut taxes until they learn what needs to be cut to achieve it.

Meh, that's how you figure out what's important.

Okay. So at the federal level, we've learned that massive deficits are what's important. Counties can't do that.

I think that's my point. Counties can't keep writing blank checks unlike the federal government, so they will have to prioritize and cut the less important stuff. The federal government doesn't have to do that because they just print more money.

Actually what will happen is that the county won't be able to fund things that are important. And it will be even harder to put money into the rainy day fund that is saving our a$$ right now (the one the Council prioritized). There will be more economic downturns in the future, and it's not going to be pretty for us if we limit our revenues like this. That's why bond-rating agencies don't like these types of limits.

"The strictest tax limitations, like the original implementation of the TABOR rule in Colorado, can prevent states from saving revenues in rainy day funds to cushion against downturns. Randall and Rueben (2017) synthesized decades of research on TELs and other budgetary institutions, concluding that states should reform TELs that prevent them from saving during good times. Rueben, Randall and Boddupalli (2018) found that, during the Great Recession, states with binding revenue limits or a combination of binding revenue and expenditure limits were more responsive to deficit shocks than states with weaker rules."
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-tax-and-expenditure-limits

The county just needs to live within its means. It can do that, it's done that in the past, not sure when everything became so bloated. I've seen road repairs on roads that don't need any work, while others just keep on growing potholes. Paying residents' cable TV expenses (internet is essential yes, but cable TV?). Massive spending on BRTs that are underutilized. Development moratoriums that shoot our own feet at growing the tax base. Moco has a state income tax, county income tax, and private property taxes. Fairfax/Arlington/Loudoun counties don't even have a county income tax, their state income tax rate is similar to MD, and they're all doing much better than Moco. Moco really needs to examine what it's doing with its money, and they won't do so unless their hand is forced. From the writing on the wall, Moco's bond rating is already going to get damaged anyway, it's not going to make much of a difference. Moco needs to study what's going on across the river instead of doubling down on what doesn't work.

Sorry, but the policy you're proposing, Robin, has been shown to be dangerous and ineffective. It's not conservative, it's stupid. I'm sorry you don't like how our elected representatives have chosen to spend our tax dollars. Until you get elected, I'm afraid all you can do is vote, just like the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The supposed disastrous impact of Question B is overstated. Question B would actually force the council to make wiser decisions to avoid the need for an emergency increase. Right now, they're just writing blank checks that they can't cash because well, we'll just vote unanimously to override the cap if we go over, NBD. They need to be accountable for their actions. If push comes to shove, then they can redirect money to prioritized services like fire, rescue, police. I seriously doubt they'd let essential services lapse. If anything, it would make them seriously consider what is really needed for the county. Vote against Question A, vote for Question B.

I don't think you understand how county budgets work. They approve the budget and they have to approve a tax levy that will fund the budget at the same time.

It's really irresponsible to hamstring your elected representatives like this. If you don't think they are being responsible, vote them out, don't punish future generations for their mistakes. You don't know what's going to happen in the future. In the past decade the state shifted teacher pension costs to counties ( http://www.baltimoresun.com/ph-ll-cns-pension-0322-20120316-story.html ) and a SCOTUS decision lowered income tax revenue ( https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/news/us-supreme-court-decision-in-tax-case-could-cost-montgomery-county-millions/). Each of these amounted to tens of millions per year that can no longer be used for schools, or roads, or libraries.

You think the Council will just cut the things you don't care about if they don't have enough money? Nope. Those things are never as expensive or as useless as you think they are. It will be the bike lane you were counting on, or the HVAC renovation for your child's school, or the library hours you value. Not just because the county's tax revenues are lower, but because the county will have to pay more interest on its debt (https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-tax-and-expenditure-limits).

First of all, with the "apple ballot" and down county always voting in lockstep, it isnt easy to just vote them out. And even if we did, they would just be replaced by more hard line leftists. The council being forced to make harder decisions is a feature not a bug. And I dont give a flying ___ about bike lanes or BRT. I *hope* those are cut as far as I'm concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the problem is that before you can vote them out, they may have already voted to raise taxes and not be good stewards of the tax funds.

No the problem is that Question B is permanent. A tax increase is not. They change the tax rate every year. You just don't like the will of the voters, and want to subvert it without caring how it will impact the county's finances or the critical services it provides

They may change the tax rates every year, but has the county ever willingly lowered taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the problem is that before you can vote them out, they may have already voted to raise taxes and not be good stewards of the tax funds.

No the problem is that Question B is permanent. A tax increase is not. They change the tax rate every year. You just don't like the will of the voters, and want to subvert it without caring how it will impact the county's finances or the critical services it provides

They may change the tax rates every year, but has the county ever willingly lowered taxes?

Yes. The current Charter Limit often requires reducing the rate to keep revenue growth down to inflation, since property values go up. They could have voted unanimously to raise the rate, but they didn't do so in most years.

Page 223 of https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/finance/resources/files/data/financial/cafr/FY2019_CAFR.PDF

[Anonymous]

Question B means that increasing the tax base is meaningless, since you have to lower the rate to counteract the increase. So stupid.

[Anonymous]

Question B is basically a show down between the unions and the retirees both large portions of the voters in MOCO.

Elrich and the union desperately want to raise property tax more than income tax. The largest employer in MOCO is the county and MCPS -by far. Most of the jobs are union positions. An income tax increase hits every union member living in MOCO but doesn't hit retirees who no longer have an income. Property tax hits only the union members who own property in MOCO and includes all the retirees who own property. Even though increasing property taxes ultimately devalues the worth of the property, the Elrich crowd does what the unions want.

The unions do not want to see budget cutting because a few bike lanes aren't going to make a dent. In order to balance the budget, the county needs to renegotiate with the unions and reduce the personal operating costs. This is why the bond rating was also placed on a warning status LAST YEAR BEFORE THE PANDEMIC. Rather than trim the budget, Elrich diverted money that would have gone into the pension funds. Forget saving for a rainy day or thinkings that question B will lower the bond rating, Elrich's fiscal mismanagement is lowering the bond rating.

The better approach would be to renegotiate the personal costs. Right now MCPS staff is freaking out that they may not get step raises or additional COLA. Only MCPS staff can be screeching about notting getting raises in a financial crisis. They should be getting salary reductions.