America is in an economic tailspin. Why does life feel so normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I paid my house off last year. Nothing fancy, bought it 18 years ago and added onto it, mostly myself. Its far better than I could live in if I had to pay someone else to do it for me. We live on one salary, mine, albeit its GS-15. I'm 42. I have 150 grand in the bank, cash savings. We drive old cars, clean our own house, and cook our own meals at home. I repair my own older iphone when it breaks (they do). I'm having to telework but grateful to have a job. (Just because I'm debt free doesnt mean I'm expense free.) People in bread lines in BMWs had the income, they just chose to spend it and not build up a 6-8 month savings. Maybe now they'll learn.

: Yes, PP, surely the economic hardship millions of Americans face is a reminder to look in the mirror and consider how much more virtuous and deserving you are.

Since the book of Job. Some things never change.

+1. And while I don't begrudge anyone their GS-15, a GS-15 salary puts you in the top 5% of earners in the country. And it's unlikely that GS-15 will ever have to worry about being laid off or losing their job due to economic concerns.

For a family of 5....in this area....it aint top 5%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I paid my house off last year. Nothing fancy, bought it 18 years ago and added onto it, mostly myself. Its far better than I could live in if I had to pay someone else to do it for me. We live on one salary, mine, albeit its GS-15. I'm 42. I have 150 grand in the bank, cash savings. We drive old cars, clean our own house, and cook our own meals at home. I repair my own older iphone when it breaks (they do). I'm having to telework but grateful to have a job. (Just because I'm debt free doesnt mean I'm expense free.) People in bread lines in BMWs had the income, they just chose to spend it and not build up a 6-8 month savings. Maybe now they'll learn.

You are a horrible human being.

[Anonymous]

It's a little terrifying because it feels like when it does happen, it will hit us very quickly, like a tsunami.

How to prepare for this?

I stupidly decided to change jobs in the midst of all this.

[Anonymous]

Poverty is not a character flaw. People who were at the margins or struggling before the pandemic are really suffering now.

It will take time for it all to play out - once the unemployment stops or when more breadwinners get sick and die or when people have to choose between working and not leaving young kids home alone because there is no school. We are in early days. This pandemic will widen the wealth and opportunity gap in our society for a whole generation. I watch as my county runs out of food when they hand out meals to replace school lunch. Think about what type of position you would have to be in to give up an hour or more of your time every day to go get free food.

Meanwhile the rich get richer. My stocks are all up. Mortgages are at all time lows and $1M+ houses in my neighborhood are selling like hotcakes. The government shutdown impacted us more - we knew many families then that were dual feds and had no income. This time around I am not seeing / hearing of people in my circle having financial issues yet.

I'm in an online moms group with women from all socioeconomic categories and all areas of the country. Some people are struggling now. Others are staring down the start of the school year and trying to decide if they quit or take a leave of absence to stay home. It won't have the optics of the dust bowl / depression era breadlines - but there will be decades of impacts from careers abandoned and never resumed, new graduates that never launch on their intended path, people who never reach their potential. I read a statistic once about people in GenX who graduated into the recession of the late 80s and how they never made as much as people who graduated just a few years later. I hope that's not true. At least this article implies the impacts might dissipate in 5-10 years. Still, that's a rough 10 years if you are 22 and hoping that decade will include getting married, buying a house and having kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I lost my job after the economy tanked in 2008. I really never recovered. But at the time we lived in a house in a nice neighborhood and drove a fancy car, and wore nice clothes, ate good food. You would never have known I was absolutely desperate. As my money ran out, I could only buy clothes for my kids, not myself, so I wore my old work wardrobe. So I might have looked like I dressed well, but it was because I had nothing else to wear. Then when those clothes eventually fell apart, I looked pretty sad. The first big repair our nice car needed that I couldn't afford was the end of us owning a good car. We went through a series of beaters off of craigslist after that. It's shocking how little time it takes for a beater to need repairs that cost more than a new beater would cost. Lather, rinse, repeat. We moved from a house to an apartment to an apartment in an income-bracket building.

My point is, these are early days. Only 4 months in. Things will get noticeably worse. Soon you will see people getting free food wearing rags but driving nice cars, or holding nice phones with chipped fingernails. Then you will see the same people wearing cheap clothes and in a nice car. Then wearing rags. Then showing up in a beater, kids in the back seat because they can't afford a babysitter. Same people.

You don't get from Point A to Point B in the blinking of an eye, but we are on our way.

So true. Thanks for your perspective and sharing your story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm shocked too.

The whole industries are taking a big hit or folding - airline, hospitality, small business, retail, car rental, etc, etc.

Yet life seems so normal. People go to restaurants, go on vacations (beaches are full), buy second houses, remodel, build swimming pools, etc.

The thing most people who are doing fine can do to help others who are not fine is to try to keep other peoples' jobs alive by spending. And vote.

[Anonymous]

cognitive dissonance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I paid my house off last year. Nothing fancy, bought it 18 years ago and added onto it, mostly myself. Its far better than I could live in if I had to pay someone else to do it for me. We live on one salary, mine, albeit its GS-15. I'm 42. I have 150 grand in the bank, cash savings. We drive old cars, clean our own house, and cook our own meals at home. I repair my own older iphone when it breaks (they do). I'm having to telework but grateful to have a job. (Just because I'm debt free doesnt mean I'm expense free.) People in bread lines in BMWs had the income, they just chose to spend it and not build up a 6-8 month savings. Maybe now they'll learn.

: Yes, PP, surely the economic hardship millions of Americans face is a reminder to look in the mirror and consider how much more virtuous and deserving you are.

Since the book of Job. Some things never change.

+1. And while I don't begrudge anyone their GS-15, a GS-15 salary puts you in the top 5% of earners in the country. And it's unlikely that GS-15 will ever have to worry about being laid off or losing their job due to economic concerns.

For a family of 5....in this area....it aint top 5%.

That was kind of the point of the person that posted that we aren't seeing the struggles because WE ARE EATING THE CAKE.

And not for nothing, if you are the GS-15 that posted the original message, you might reflect upon how you were able to achieve your financial stability other than just scrimping and saving - you likely haven't been out of work in the last close to 20 years and if you have 13 years to retirement you will make an additional $2.2 million dollars in gross income pretty much guaranteed. And the fact that you have a spouse that doesn't have to work to put food on the table makes you very fortunate indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm shocked too.

The whole industries are taking a big hit or folding - airline, hospitality, small business, retail, car rental, etc, etc.

Yet life seems so normal. People go to restaurants, go on vacations (beaches are full), buy second houses, remodel, build swimming pools, etc.

The thing most people who are doing fine can do to help others who are not fine is to try to keep other peoples' jobs alive by spending. And vote.

I can't spend because I'm afraid bad times are coming.
Also, I think it's tragic that our economy is built on consumerism and once we stop consuming like crazy, it all falls apart.

[Anonymous]

I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

Yep. My sister and her 10 month old are on WIC and they travel far out to go to the grocery store so they don’t see anyone familiar.

[Anonymous]

The projections for 2021 are far worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I paid my house off last year. Nothing fancy, bought it 18 years ago and added onto it, mostly myself. Its far better than I could live in if I had to pay someone else to do it for me. We live on one salary, mine, albeit its GS-15. I'm 42. I have 150 grand in the bank, cash savings. We drive old cars, clean our own house, and cook our own meals at home. I repair my own older iphone when it breaks (they do). I'm having to telework but grateful to have a job. (Just because I'm debt free doesnt mean I'm expense free.) People in bread lines in BMWs had the income, they just chose to spend it and not build up a 6-8 month savings. Maybe now they'll learn.

Why don’t you walk up and down the line at the food bank telling everyone they should eat cake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that the economic downturn is hitting all sectors equally. Some businesses are really hurting and some are going gangbusters. My company is insane with work right now. My mom's company laid off a lot of people in one section but the other sections are firmly afloat. It just depends.

Manufacturers that feed into the civilian airline industry are troubled. Those that feed into the military side are more confident. Other manufacturers are doing very well.

Some agricultural products are struggling (soybeans, China) but others are selling out.

The small economy (tiny start-ups, people switching their small businesses over to something currently marketable) is doing quite well. People are adaptable.

It's a mixed picture but it certainly isn't all bad or all good.

Agree.

- Senator Loeffler

DP. This is actually what's happening.

[Anonymous]

I’m convinced the Marie Kondo movement to donate tons of stuff will help this time around.