CDC planning to release new guidance on how K-12 students can physically return to classroom. 7/6/20

[Anonymous]

https://www.nbc12.com/2020/07/01/study-children-can-transmit-covid-like-adults/

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/20/880983822/coronavirus-mystery-are-kids-less-likely-to-catch-it-than-adults-are- posted June 20th- modeler says "She says transmission among kids needs to be better understood so officials can make plans for appropriate precautions when reopening school". How much understanding do you think they have gained in 3 weeks?

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19-is-very-different-in-young-kids-versus-adults-67637 based on a very small sample size of 34 children
"Only one child exhibited ground-glass opacities, a type of lesion that looks like a hazy area on a lung computed tomography (CT) scan and is commonly observed in hospitalized adults with COVID-19. In contrast, 32 patients either had at admission or later developed lesions that appeared as patchy, dense shadows in their lung lobules as visualized by CT scan. Although the children recovered from cough and fever within a few days and all were discharged from the hospital within 15 days, 24 still had these lesions in their lungs when they were discharged.

“We don’t get CT scans on anyone, unless it’s clinically indicated,” says Marion Sills, a pediatric emergency physician and researcher at Children’s Hospital Colorado who did not participate in the work. The subjects in the study got three CT scans, which makes it harder to generalize those results to the patients Sills has seen.

Plus, the study’s age ranges “eliminated the sickest group that we’ve identified” in the US, Sills says. “The later teens, who fall within our pediatric population, have been some of our sickest patients,” she explains, adding that the authors may have missed sicker babies younger than one month as well. The authors did not respond to requests for an interview.

In terms of transmission, 13 had a family member with COVID-19. While 18 total had been exposed to a suspected case, 16 patients had no clear source of transmission. “Family cluster transmission was found to be common in our pediatric patients. There have been few reports of the infection dynamics from pediatric patients to their caregivers, although transmission from adults to children has been identified with confirmed evidence,” the authors write. “However, no evidence was shown regarding the transmission route from pediatric patients to their caregivers and close-contact family members.”

Its all over the place. Yes, children seem to be different but they arent sure. And now this https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-one-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html

I dont know why you all cant just wait 6 more months. Youd rather just have another SIP and everything really go down the toilet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They can release all the guidance they want, but it's not going to happen.

+1

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nbc12.com/2020/07/01/study-children-can-transmit-covid-like-adults/

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/20/880983822/coronavirus-mystery-are-kids-less-likely-to-catch-it-than-adults-are- posted June 20th- modeler says "She says transmission among kids needs to be better understood so officials can make plans for appropriate precautions when reopening school". How much understanding do you think they have gained in 3 weeks?

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/covid-19-is-very-different-in-young-kids-versus-adults-67637 based on a very small sample size of 34 children
"Only one child exhibited ground-glass opacities, a type of lesion that looks like a hazy area on a lung computed tomography (CT) scan and is commonly observed in hospitalized adults with COVID-19. In contrast, 32 patients either had at admission or later developed lesions that appeared as patchy, dense shadows in their lung lobules as visualized by CT scan. Although the children recovered from cough and fever within a few days and all were discharged from the hospital within 15 days, 24 still had these lesions in their lungs when they were discharged.

“We don’t get CT scans on anyone, unless it’s clinically indicated,” says Marion Sills, a pediatric emergency physician and researcher at Children’s Hospital Colorado who did not participate in the work. The subjects in the study got three CT scans, which makes it harder to generalize those results to the patients Sills has seen.

Plus, the study’s age ranges “eliminated the sickest group that we’ve identified” in the US, Sills says. “The later teens, who fall within our pediatric population, have been some of our sickest patients,” she explains, adding that the authors may have missed sicker babies younger than one month as well. The authors did not respond to requests for an interview.

In terms of transmission, 13 had a family member with COVID-19. While 18 total had been exposed to a suspected case, 16 patients had no clear source of transmission. “Family cluster transmission was found to be common in our pediatric patients. There have been few reports of the infection dynamics from pediatric patients to their caregivers, although transmission from adults to children has been identified with confirmed evidence,” the authors write. “However, no evidence was shown regarding the transmission route from pediatric patients to their caregivers and close-contact family members.”

Its all over the place. Yes, children seem to be different but they arent sure. And now this https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-one-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html

I dont know why you all cant just wait 6 more months. Youd rather just have another SIP and everything really go down the toilet.

What do you think is going to happen in 6 months that suddenly everyone can come back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a great post on FB from Christine Esposito

I get it. I do. You need schools to open because...holy crap you’re not getting anything done, your kids need to see other kids, you have a job to do, and you just plain need a break. I get it. I do.

Actually I need schools to open because my kids, and everybody else's kids, need an education.

So maybe that person actually doesn't get it.

6 months to one year is not going to harm your kids. Unless youre suggesting that you give them no simulation and they have no interests of their own to enjoy or learn about. And as stated in her post

"We’re going to be facing kids who are dealing with layer upon layer of trauma, we need to make time and space for that, so stop telling me kids are behind. They’re not any further behind than anyone else. They’re behind some arbitrary lines we drew in the sand so long ago we’re not sure we remember why we drew them. We need to meet our kids where they are. I don't want to hear one word about testing, unless it involves a nasal or throat swab. Not. One. Word."

What exactly do you mean by education? Testing, checking off boxes? Or learning- because students can do that without risking others. Because what happens to your kids education when the teachers are out sick from COVID and they end up having a long term sub, if they can even find one? Or teachers leave because they cant put their own children or family members at risk? Do you think there is a never-ending supply of educated and experienced teachers to teach your children, and everyone else's kids? Because you would be wrong. There was already a shortage of teachers prior to the pandemic as it is highly underpaid and undervalued. And Im sure if I were to suggest that you quit your job and become a teacher- you would bemoan that you're job pays too well or you dont possibly have the patience for 30 kids x 4-5 periods. You either respect them or you dont and if you just want childcare then I guess it really wont matter who watches your kids, but if you want them to get an education you'll value what teachers- the ones actually in the classrooms and taking on the risks- have to say.

My kids are in high school. One of them will be a senior. I don't need childcare. My kids do need to have high school.

I am beginning to understand the snowflake term. Just to be clear- you want all schools to open so your senior can have a normal senior year? Would you feel differently if you knew that some recovering patients were being diagnosed with T1D?

Just a newsflash, if your high school kids cant get anything out of DL, then college will be a really big shock. Besides labs and graduate level research courses, I basically never had anything but medium to huge lecture hall classes and/or online learning. Think of it as preparation for them!

“if” that seems that to be operative word around. If something that has no scientific support happened . . .

[Anonymous]

“if” that seems that to be operative word around. If something that has no scientific support happened . . .

Is the NEJM letter to the editor scientific enough for you
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688?query=featured_coronavirus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The positivity rate in MD and MoCo is now under 5% and still decreasing (It used to be more than 30%.) There used to be 1700 Covid patients in the hospitals (even then the hospitals in MD were not overwhelmed), now there are about 400 patients, and constantly decreasing every day.
At some point, you have to do risk/benefit analysis and allow the kids to schools. There are huge educational, mental, social, economical costs of keeping schools shut.

If the schools turn out to be virus central, what’s the back up plan? “Oh well”, the current administrations national plan, won’t work cause parents won’t send their kids if schools become epicenter .

"Something bad might happen if there's school" is not a good reason to keep schools closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back in March/April, the CDC told everyone that wearing masks is not important and ineffective. They lied to all of us because of the shortages of masks. But instead to telling us the truth, they lied and said it was ineffective.

Now you’re going to believe them when it is directed by the White House, months away from the Presidential defection, where their key campaign message is jobs and the economy.

Not to defend this administration, but the mask guidance came from the WHO. It wasn't another of the Trump administration's many lies.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you can really trust any guidance put out by this administration. They'll just write whatever they think will help the orange's re-election chances in spite of what any public health expert believes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The positivity rate in MD and MoCo is now under 5% and still decreasing (It used to be more than 30%.) There used to be 1700 Covid patients in the hospitals (even then the hospitals in MD were not overwhelmed), now there are about 400 patients, and constantly decreasing every day.
At some point, you have to do risk/benefit analysis and allow the kids to schools. There are huge educational, mental, social, economical costs of keeping schools shut.

If the schools turn out to be virus central, what’s the back up plan? “Oh well”, the current administrations national plan, won’t work cause parents won’t send their kids if schools become epicenter .

"Something bad might happen if there's school" is not a good reason to keep schools closed.

It's more accurate to say that something bad WILL happen when they open schools amidst a pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you can really trust any guidance put out by this administration. They'll just write whatever they think will help the orange's re-election chances in spite of what any public health expert believes.

Do you think the AAP is in cahoots with Trump's campaign as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read a great post on FB from Christine Esposito

I get it. I do. You need schools to open because...holy crap you’re not getting anything done, your kids need to see other kids, you have a job to do, and you just plain need a break. I get it. I do.
I’ve seen the research. Kids are, as much as we can determine barely six months into a pandemic, less likely to get it. They’re less likely to suffer from a severe form of the disease, possibly less likely to transmit it. The calls for opening schools with this data make total sense. Are you going to send your kids into a building with no adults? No. So when you’re out there demanding that schools open and all of your arguments are about you, about what you need, about what your kids need, but NEVER ONCE mention the dangers to the staff and faculty who will necessarily need to be in those schools, you can see where I’m a little concerned.
I’ve accepted that I ask my friends two or three times a year to donate food to our “snack closet” because ending poverty, let alone childhood poverty and all the many things that encompasses it, seems to be beyond us. I’ve accepted that I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money every year to buy things my students need because adequately funding schools seems to be beyond us. I’ve accepted that there might come a time I have to lock my students in the closet in my classroom - and let me tell you how blessed I feel that I have a closet big enough to fit all of my kids - because reasonable gun control seems to be beyond us.
Now you’re asking us to accept going back into classrooms in the middle of a pandemic. Classrooms that are located in buildings that have been neglected for decades (please see: adequate funding), that in some cases have no windows that open, where our support people - occupational therapists, speech therapists are working in closets (please see: adequate funding), and buildings that have sketchy HVAC on a good day.
You’ll forgive us if we’re not quite onboard with this idea yet. You see, if we want hand sanitizer in our classrooms, we have to ask parents to donate it. If we want Lysol wipes for our classrooms, we have to ask our parents to donate it. If we want tissues for snotty noses, we have to ask our parents to donate it. They do. Every year they do and many of them donate these things despite their precarious financial situations. I have no doubt that those parents would make these donations again - despite their much more precarious financial situation - if those things were available for purchase.
Since, for the entire two decades I’ve been teaching, we’ve been asking parents to donate basic school supplies because we can’t or won’t adequately fund education, you might see where we’re a little hesitant to go back into those classrooms without masks, without face shields, because masks don’t work with the littlest kids (though face shields really aren’t nearly as effective as masks, but…), without any promise of reliable, regular testing with a quick turnaround of results, without any plan for what happens when someone gets sick, without any plan for what staff and faculty do when someone in their family is sick, without any plan on how we help parents who need the childcare, so they’re forced to give kids Tylenol in order to get through the temperature screening so they don’t lose their job, without any promise of additional money to hire more teachers, to lease more space, to scale up what distance learning will or could look like. (Does anyone really think we’re going to make it through flu season without ending up right where we were in March?)
Do you know what schools look like once school starts? We are a snotty, sneezing, sniffly, coughing mess and that's without spike proteins invading our beings.
I’m worried for me. I have parents who are considered elderly (sorry about that, but you are). Parents I have only seen from a distance since early March, except for that super socially-distanced Father’s Day. I’m worried for teachers who are parents - what will they do with their kids whose school schedules might be wildly different than that of their parents. I’m worried for the teachers who are older (and I’m REALLY sorry I’m considered one of them). But I’m more worried about our custodial staff, bus drivers, our cafeteria workers, our instructional assistants who are far more likely to be BIPOC, people who are far less likely to have the resources needed to survive an extended illness (again, not funding what matters), whose family members are more likely to be considered an essential worker in some other field.I don’t see anyone having these conversations.
I don’t see ANY consideration for the adults in school buildings in all the articles calling for schools to open. AAP is telling schools to open, but not giving any guidance on how to do so safely for students AND staff alike. That must be nice. You have to open and good luck on figuring out how to make that work. We’re used to flying by the seat of our pants and making it work. This is a piss-poor solution most of the time and it is a completely untenable one in the middle of a pandemic, one that has been managed in the worst possible way at the federal level.
I’m worried for my kids. I know they need to be back at school. I saw how distance learning went this spring. It wasn’t pretty. I know that our kids need teachers who aren’t terrified to be at work because there’s nothing in place that would suggest society values teachers as more than cheap childcare, despite the fact that this spring and summer should have sounded that message loud and clear. I know our kids need to be around each other.
I’m worried that people are going to start calling for “normal” school. Nothing about this is normal. Even if kids are in school full time, nothing about this is going to be normal. We’re going to be facing kids who are dealing with layer upon layer of trauma, we need to make time and space for that, so stop telling me kids are behind. They’re not any further behind than anyone else. They’re behind some arbitrary lines we drew in the sand so long ago we’re not sure we remember why we drew them. We need to meet our kids where they are. I don't want to hear one word about testing, unless it involves a nasal or throat swab. Not. One. Word.
The worst part about this is the completely cavalier attitude I see from far too many about doing what needs to be done if you have even half a prayer of opening schools this fall. Wear a mask. Stay home. No, you don’t need to eat in that restaurant. No, you don’t need to go visit your parents or friends 5 states away. No, you don’t need to go hang out with your friends because you’ll really stay 6 feet away - let me assure you that the pictures you’ve posted show me that is almost never true. Yes. You need to wear a mask. Yes. You need to stay home unless it’s really important. If you can’t do any of those things, but want me to go back to school in August with a smile on my face, you’re asking me to make far bigger sacrifices than the ones you’ve been willing to make so far.

I love this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a great post on FB from Christine Esposito

I get it. I do. You need schools to open because...holy crap you’re not getting anything done, your kids need to see other kids, you have a job to do, and you just plain need a break. I get it. I do.

Actually I need schools to open because my kids, and everybody else's kids, need an education.

So maybe that person actually doesn't get it.

6 months to one year is not going to harm your kids. Unless youre suggesting that you give them no simulation and they have no interests of their own to enjoy or learn about. And as stated in her post

"We’re going to be facing kids who are dealing with layer upon layer of trauma, we need to make time and space for that, so stop telling me kids are behind. They’re not any further behind than anyone else. They’re behind some arbitrary lines we drew in the sand so long ago we’re not sure we remember why we drew them. We need to meet our kids where they are. I don't want to hear one word about testing, unless it involves a nasal or throat swab. Not. One. Word."

What exactly do you mean by education? Testing, checking off boxes? Or learning- because students can do that without risking others. Because what happens to your kids education when the teachers are out sick from COVID and they end up having a long term sub, if they can even find one? Or teachers leave because they cant put their own children or family members at risk? Do you think there is a never-ending supply of educated and experienced teachers to teach your children, and everyone else's kids? Because you would be wrong. There was already a shortage of teachers prior to the pandemic as it is highly underpaid and undervalued. And Im sure if I were to suggest that you quit your job and become a teacher- you would bemoan that you're job pays too well or you dont possibly have the patience for 30 kids x 4-5 periods. You either respect them or you dont and if you just want childcare then I guess it really wont matter who watches your kids, but if you want them to get an education you'll value what teachers- the ones actually in the classrooms and taking on the risks- have to say.

My kids are in high school. One of them will be a senior. I don't need childcare. My kids do need to have high school.

I am beginning to understand the snowflake term. Just to be clear- you want all schools to open so your senior can have a normal senior year? Would you feel differently if you knew that some recovering patients were being diagnosed with T1D?

Just a newsflash, if your high school kids cant get anything out of DL, then college will be a really big shock. Besides labs and graduate level research courses, I basically never had anything but medium to huge lecture hall classes and/or online learning. Think of it as preparation for them!

That is terrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
“if” that seems that to be operative word around. If something that has no scientific support happened . . .

Is the NEJM letter to the editor scientific enough for you
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688?query=featured_coronavirus

You’ve posted something about a link between diabetes. We’re still talking about transmission at schools. Did you mean to post something else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“if” that seems that to be operative word around. If something that has no scientific support happened . . .

Is the NEJM letter to the editor scientific enough for you
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688?query=featured_coronavirus

You’ve posted something about a link between diabetes. We’re still talking about transmission at schools. Did you mean to post something else?

I posted the following:
"I am beginning to understand the snowflake term. Just to be clear- you want all schools to open so your senior can have a normal senior year? Would you feel differently if you knew that some recovering patients were being diagnosed with T1D?"

Someone replied: "“if” that seems that to be operative word around. If something that has no scientific support happened . . ."

I was providing the scientific support that they were questioning. There were no other ifs in my original post that required scientific backup besides the T1D statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a great post on FB from Christine Esposito

I get it. I do. You need schools to open because...holy crap you’re not getting anything done, your kids need to see other kids, you have a job to do, and you just plain need a break. I get it. I do.
I’ve seen the research. Kids are, as much as we can determine barely six months into a pandemic, less likely to get it. They’re less likely to suffer from a severe form of the disease, possibly less likely to transmit it. The calls for opening schools with this data make total sense. Are you going to send your kids into a building with no adults? No. So when you’re out there demanding that schools open and all of your arguments are about you, about what you need, about what your kids need, but NEVER ONCE mention the dangers to the staff and faculty who will necessarily need to be in those schools, you can see where I’m a little concerned.
I’ve accepted that I ask my friends two or three times a year to donate food to our “snack closet” because ending poverty, let alone childhood poverty and all the many things that encompasses it, seems to be beyond us. I’ve accepted that I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money every year to buy things my students need because adequately funding schools seems to be beyond us. I’ve accepted that there might come a time I have to lock my students in the closet in my classroom - and let me tell you how blessed I feel that I have a closet big enough to fit all of my kids - because reasonable gun control seems to be beyond us.
Now you’re asking us to accept going back into classrooms in the middle of a pandemic. Classrooms that are located in buildings that have been neglected for decades (please see: adequate funding), that in some cases have no windows that open, where our support people - occupational therapists, speech therapists are working in closets (please see: adequate funding), and buildings that have sketchy HVAC on a good day.
You’ll forgive us if we’re not quite onboard with this idea yet. You see, if we want hand sanitizer in our classrooms, we have to ask parents to donate it. If we want Lysol wipes for our classrooms, we have to ask our parents to donate it. If we want tissues for snotty noses, we have to ask our parents to donate it. They do. Every year they do and many of them donate these things despite their precarious financial situations. I have no doubt that those parents would make these donations again - despite their much more precarious financial situation - if those things were available for purchase.
Since, for the entire two decades I’ve been teaching, we’ve been asking parents to donate basic school supplies because we can’t or won’t adequately fund education, you might see where we’re a little hesitant to go back into those classrooms without masks, without face shields, because masks don’t work with the littlest kids (though face shields really aren’t nearly as effective as masks, but…), without any promise of reliable, regular testing with a quick turnaround of results, without any plan for what happens when someone gets sick, without any plan for what staff and faculty do when someone in their family is sick, without any plan on how we help parents who need the childcare, so they’re forced to give kids Tylenol in order to get through the temperature screening so they don’t lose their job, without any promise of additional money to hire more teachers, to lease more space, to scale up what distance learning will or could look like. (Does anyone really think we’re going to make it through flu season without ending up right where we were in March?)
Do you know what schools look like once school starts? We are a snotty, sneezing, sniffly, coughing mess and that's without spike proteins invading our beings.
I’m worried for me. I have parents who are considered elderly (sorry about that, but you are). Parents I have only seen from a distance since early March, except for that super socially-distanced Father’s Day. I’m worried for teachers who are parents - what will they do with their kids whose school schedules might be wildly different than that of their parents. I’m worried for the teachers who are older (and I’m REALLY sorry I’m considered one of them). But I’m more worried about our custodial staff, bus drivers, our cafeteria workers, our instructional assistants who are far more likely to be BIPOC, people who are far less likely to have the resources needed to survive an extended illness (again, not funding what matters), whose family members are more likely to be considered an essential worker in some other field.I don’t see anyone having these conversations.
I don’t see ANY consideration for the adults in school buildings in all the articles calling for schools to open. AAP is telling schools to open, but not giving any guidance on how to do so safely for students AND staff alike. That must be nice. You have to open and good luck on figuring out how to make that work. We’re used to flying by the seat of our pants and making it work. This is a piss-poor solution most of the time and it is a completely untenable one in the middle of a pandemic, one that has been managed in the worst possible way at the federal level.
I’m worried for my kids. I know they need to be back at school. I saw how distance learning went this spring. It wasn’t pretty. I know that our kids need teachers who aren’t terrified to be at work because there’s nothing in place that would suggest society values teachers as more than cheap childcare, despite the fact that this spring and summer should have sounded that message loud and clear. I know our kids need to be around each other.
I’m worried that people are going to start calling for “normal” school. Nothing about this is normal. Even if kids are in school full time, nothing about this is going to be normal. We’re going to be facing kids who are dealing with layer upon layer of trauma, we need to make time and space for that, so stop telling me kids are behind. They’re not any further behind than anyone else. They’re behind some arbitrary lines we drew in the sand so long ago we’re not sure we remember why we drew them. We need to meet our kids where they are. I don't want to hear one word about testing, unless it involves a nasal or throat swab. Not. One. Word.
The worst part about this is the completely cavalier attitude I see from far too many about doing what needs to be done if you have even half a prayer of opening schools this fall. Wear a mask. Stay home. No, you don’t need to eat in that restaurant. No, you don’t need to go visit your parents or friends 5 states away. No, you don’t need to go hang out with your friends because you’ll really stay 6 feet away - let me assure you that the pictures you’ve posted show me that is almost never true. Yes. You need to wear a mask. Yes. You need to stay home unless it’s really important. If you can’t do any of those things, but want me to go back to school in August with a smile on my face, you’re asking me to make far bigger sacrifices than the ones you’ve been willing to make so far.

I love this.

Ugh. No. Between her assumption that "you’re not getting anything done, your kids need to see other kids, you have a job to do, and you just plain need a break" is the reason parents want their kids in school and the demeaning reference to "cheap childcare," this one gets a hard pass from me.