Soooo, how is high-density looking to everyone now?

[Anonymous]

So let me see if I understand the determining factors for who wins this dumb ass debate...

Either 1/2 of New York gets wiped out and Idiot A smiles and says, "I told you so."

Or 1/2 of rural America gets wiped out and Idiot B smiles and says, "I told you so."

SMH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So let me see if I understand the determining factors for who wins this dumb ass debate...

Either 1/2 of New York gets wiped out and Idiot A smiles and says, "I told you so."

Or 1/2 of rural America gets wiped out and Idiot B smiles and says, "I told you so."

SMH

No. The question is whether it's a covid-19 health hazard to live in cities. The answer is, No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

800,000 people used to live in DC, without there being 50-story buildings.

Yes they lived in tenements on and around the mall. Not a great argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

800,000 people used to live in DC, without there being 50-story buildings.

Yes they lived in tenements on and around the mall. Not a great argument.

Not entirely. Many didn’t feel entitled to live as singles in an upscale glass box flat with quartz countertops above a Korean-Brazilian fast casual fusion eatery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine thinking that a once-in-a-century health event is an actual argument against smart growth that sets up affordability, sustainability, and accessibility for generations to come.

Or what's even worse and sadly more likely, imagine knowing how ridiculous that is yet going right ahead and using a disaster that will likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans to push your personal NIMBY agenda.

All of the arguments that I have heard advocating 'smart growth' or 'densification' seem to be arguments for building and cozying up to all of our DC builder friends. Nothing seems to acknowledge that we have a vibrant, walkable and livable city right now where you can walk outside and see the sky. I have loved my time living in NYC, but it always got to me that I was always in the shadows and I only saw the sun a couple of hours around noon.

I love NYC, not every city needs to be NYC.

If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine thinking that a once-in-a-century health event is an actual argument against smart growth that sets up affordability, sustainability, and accessibility for generations to come.

Or what's even worse and sadly more likely, imagine knowing how ridiculous that is yet going right ahead and using a disaster that will likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans to push your personal NIMBY agenda.

All of the arguments that I have heard advocating 'smart growth' or 'densification' seem to be arguments for building and cozying up to all of our DC builder friends. Nothing seems to acknowledge that we have a vibrant, walkable and livable city right now where you can walk outside and see the sky. I have loved my time living in NYC, but it always got to me that I was always in the shadows and I only saw the sun a couple of hours around noon.

I love NYC, not every city needs to be NYC.

If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

+1

This is what I've never understood. If you want to live in a more densely populated place, get off DCUM and just go move there. No one is stopping you. The rest of us like DC how it is. It's why we live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine thinking that a once-in-a-century health event is an actual argument against smart growth that sets up affordability, sustainability, and accessibility for generations to come.

Or what's even worse and sadly more likely, imagine knowing how ridiculous that is yet going right ahead and using a disaster that will likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans to push your personal NIMBY agenda.

All of the arguments that I have heard advocating 'smart growth' or 'densification' seem to be arguments for building and cozying up to all of our DC builder friends. Nothing seems to acknowledge that we have a vibrant, walkable and livable city right now where you can walk outside and see the sky. I have loved my time living in NYC, but it always got to me that I was always in the shadows and I only saw the sun a couple of hours around noon.

I love NYC, not every city needs to be NYC.

If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

+1

This is what I've never understood. If you want to live in a more densely populated place, get off DCUM and just go move there. No one is stopping you. The rest of us like DC how it is. It's why we live here.

YES. Love visiting NY and indulging in all the wonderful things it has to offer (and it truly does!) but I would hate living there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

+1000

Choice. It is one of the things that makes America great.

Why are we trying to force densification through legislation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

+1000

Choice. It is one of the things that makes America great.

Why are we trying to force densification through legislation?

And outsourcing Washington’s planning office to crony developers, as Mayor Bowser has done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

+1000

Choice. It is one of the things that makes America great.

Why are we trying to force densification through legislation?

We're not trying to force densification through legislation. We're trying to allow property owners to build stuff through legislation. We're trying to get rid of the legislation that forces property owners to only build one housing type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just found this thread. So fun. I have NEVER really understood the argument for increasing density in the name of saving the planet and global warming. Maybe at the expense of humanity as we are seeing.

Anyway, why does there seem to be an assumption in this thread that Single Family Homes are being occupied by predominately singles and empty nesters? There seem to be LOTS of families with kids of all ages in green leafy DC neighborhoods.

My family has been getting a daily walk or two over the course of this event. I must say that I am very grateful that I am walking through green neighborhoods and not concrete canyons that the "make it denser and build it higher" lobby are always pushing for. Whoever passed the current height laws was a visionary and knew that people needed to breathe.

Good luck to all. Enjoy your wide quiet streets in these times.

Like in Staten Island!

https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/staten-island-reaches-highest-rate-of-confirmed-coronavirus-cases-in-city.html

^^^not to mention the concrete canyons of New Rochelle, NY.

They weren't trying to isolate when they had the initial community spread. Guessing social distancing is easier there now than say Manhattan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine thinking that a once-in-a-century health event is an actual argument against smart growth that sets up affordability, sustainability, and accessibility for generations to come.

Or what's even worse and sadly more likely, imagine knowing how ridiculous that is yet going right ahead and using a disaster that will likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans to push your personal NIMBY agenda.

Stick your head in the sand if you want, but a lot more people in New York City are going to die precisely because it is so densely populated. I dont see what's so smart about that.

From the Times:

“Density is really an enemy in a situation like this,” said Dr. Steven Goodman, an epidemiologist at Stanford University. “With large population centers, where people are interacting with more people all the time, that’s where it’s going to spread the fastest.”

The challenge facing New York and other tightly cramped cities around the United States can be seen by comparing the country’s largest city to its second biggest, Los Angeles.

As of Monday, there were more than 13,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus in New York and about 500 in Los Angeles. New York reported 125 deaths; Los Angeles reported seven.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/nyregion/corona...dule=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

A lot more people in New York City than what/where? Death RATES are the issue here, PP. Not death numbers. Obviously places with lots of people are going to have more deaths, all things being equal. What do you think is going to happen in West Virginia, where the population is already older, poorer, and sicker, with less access to health care, during normal times?

This works if you are comparing the high density of cities to low density of country-side; however, many of us are making a comparison between high density cities and corresponding neighborhoods in them, and low-density cities and corresponding neighborhoods in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If people really want a New York vibe and density, they are free to choose to live there. Vamoose bus tickets are pretty cheap. Washington is special for its open vistas, leafy green neighborhoods and the fact that you can see the sky. We don’t need to aspire to emulate New York City.

+1000

Choice. It is one of the things that makes America great.

Why are we trying to force densification through legislation?

We're not trying to force densification through legislation. We're trying to allow property owners to build stuff through legislation. We're trying to get rid of the legislation that forces property owners to only build one housing type.

Laissez faire libertarianism in support of windfall profits for large developers and real estate speculators

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in DC, and I'm really liking it. It's not like NYC where it's hard to find space. I can go for a walk and maintain plenty of distance, but I can also have a porch happy hour where I can chat with all my neighbors while we are all on our own porches. I can be by myself yet not feel lonely.

That's how I feel in Clarksburg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine thinking that a once-in-a-century health event is an actual argument against smart growth that sets up affordability, sustainability, and accessibility for generations to come.

Or what's even worse and sadly more likely, imagine knowing how ridiculous that is yet going right ahead and using a disaster that will likely kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans to push your personal NIMBY agenda.

Stick your head in the sand if you want, but a lot more people in New York City are going to die precisely because it is so densely populated. I dont see what's so smart about that.

From the Times:

“Density is really an enemy in a situation like this,” said Dr. Steven Goodman, an epidemiologist at Stanford University. “With large population centers, where people are interacting with more people all the time, that’s where it’s going to spread the fastest.”

The challenge facing New York and other tightly cramped cities around the United States can be seen by comparing the country’s largest city to its second biggest, Los Angeles.

As of Monday, there were more than 13,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus in New York and about 500 in Los Angeles. New York reported 125 deaths; Los Angeles reported seven.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/nyregion/corona...dule=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

A lot more people in New York City than what/where? Death RATES are the issue here, PP. Not death numbers. Obviously places with lots of people are going to have more deaths, all things being equal. What do you think is going to happen in West Virginia, where the population is already older, poorer, and sicker, with less access to health care, during normal times?

This works if you are comparing the high density of cities to low density of country-side; however, many of us are making a comparison between high density cities and corresponding neighborhoods in them, and low-density cities and corresponding neighborhoods in them.

Like Staten Island having the highest case rates in NYC, you mean?