COSA denial - submitting an appeal but do we mention "gifted" designation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing wrong about wanting a better peer group for ones kids.

Exactly. Which is why we left the affluent private my kids used to go to. That peer group was unusually entitled, cliquish, and mean. They have a much better peer group in our middle class public.

Don’t assume richer = better peer group.

Some of the W feeders have a horrible peer group in terms of spoiled, entitled kids with catty and/or racist parents.

And some silver spring schools have rooming bands of ghetto kids and gang members. Stereotype much

Both stereotypes are actually true, I’m afraid. At this point, I prefer the latter group. They (and their parents) are actually much more pleasant to interact with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing wrong about wanting a better peer group for ones kids.

I mean, if you genuinely believe that the "peer group" is better at one school over another, you are very welcome to buy/rent in that school attendance zone. However, it is pretty gross to buy/rent in an economically diverse attendance zone and then claim that your own child is too special to go to school with the other children whose families can afford that neighborhood.

Not gross, hypocritical. Most people typically want nothing to do with the unwashed masses down stream.

Well, in this case the speculation is that it is the "unwashed masses" next door. Which is kind of gross. It takes a special kind of white privilege to argue that your child cannot possibly be educated alongside the children of the people who can also afford your neighborhood.

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing wrong about wanting a better peer group for ones kids.

I mean, if you genuinely believe that the "peer group" is better at one school over another, you are very welcome to buy/rent in that school attendance zone. However, it is pretty gross to buy/rent in an economically diverse attendance zone and then claim that your own child is too special to go to school with the other children whose families can afford that neighborhood.

Not gross, hypocritical. Most people typically want nothing to do with the unwashed masses down stream.

Well, in this case the speculation is that it is the "unwashed masses" next door. Which is kind of gross. It takes a special kind of white privilege to argue that your child cannot possibly be educated alongside the children of the people who can also afford your neighborhood.

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

The problem isn’t different classes for kids with different needs. The problem is when the remedial classes are nearly all poor kids and black and brown kids regardless of income. I was a poor black kid and am grateful that I didn’t grow up in MoCo because I was identified as GT in 3rd and got to skip a grade. I know AA MoCo natives my age that are much sharper than I am that never got tested at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

We all hope everyone gets the help they need. Rather than, for example, assuming that white middle-class kids need gifted classes and black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

We all hope everyone gets the help they need. Rather than, for example, assuming that white middle-class kids need gifted classes and black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

There is either an achievement gap or there isn’t. It can’t be a metric of convenience used to justify getting better stuff and invalidating test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

We all hope everyone gets the help they need. Rather than, for example, assuming that white middle-class kids need gifted classes and black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

There is either an achievement gap or there isn’t. It can’t be a metric of convenience used to justify getting better stuff and invalidating test scores.

1) It’s actually an opportunity gap as well. Which means that when opportunities are hoarded for white and Asian kids, we’re missing out on bright AA and HI students.
2) it isn’t just kids of color who are hurt by this approach. I know many white MC families who know gifted and advanced classes are not appropriate for their children. They think the compacted math to Geometry in 8th path is developmentally inappropriate for their children and question why their child was placed on that pathway despite obvious gaps in skills. They are spending money on 4 years of math tutors that could be saved for college. Others fight with counselors so they can take their kids out of MS FL and place them in fun electives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

We all hope everyone gets the help they need. Rather than, for example, assuming that white middle-class kids need gifted classes and black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

There is either an achievement gap or there isn’t. It can’t be a metric of convenience used to justify getting better stuff and invalidating test scores.

Well, there, PP, you just perfectly explained the problem.

White kids, as a group, score better. Does that mean that all white kids need gifted classes? No, it does not. Some white kids need gifted classes, some white kids need regular classes, some white kids need remedial classes.

Black and Hispanic kids, as a group, score worse. Does that mean that all black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes? No, it does not. Some black and Hispanic kids need gifted classes, some black and Hispanic kids need regular classes, some black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

[Anonymous]

Everyone is gifted in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - thanks for the quick responses. DD has severe anxiety when it comes to new situations and people. We submitted a letter from her therapist, pediatrician and we wrote a letter. The application was still denied.

We are going to appeal but we didn't mention the possibility of her moving twice in 2 years. She has scored in the 99th percentile for every MAP-P test she's taken and is reading on an "N" benchmark. I know that the designation of gifted isn't linked to CES acceptance but I thought it may be a factor.

Any insight on how we get them to understand the severity of her issues on appeal? I'm baffled that the letters from legit MD and PhDs didn't sway them.

I mean, she's going to have to deal with change at some point, and you have made the decision to move despite what you describe as "severe" issues. Basically, you are fighting an uphill battle here, and some of it your own doing.

What is your actual concern about the school in your new neighborhood?

My oldest is similar. It is one of the reasons we have not moved out of our too small house. Can’t find one we like that would not require changing schools. You chose to move. The end. Geez. So entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But can they? with all the handouts going on in MoCo and concentrated low income households, I am not sure. My house is almost 1mil in TP, most of the kids families at my sons school (PBES) can’t afford that. There can be huge cultural difference separated by just a few blocks.

Different kids need different classes, this has always been the case. Remedial classes help low performance kids, it isn’t fair to either side to make the classes average and stick everyone in there. To fast for the kids lagging and too slow for the bright kids, who do you think the teacher will ignore when they have to chose? I fully understand that some of the obstacles come from things outside the kids control but that doesn’t really matter. At some point someone will tell them they didn’t make the cut.

Me wishing my kids are around the other top kids isn’t wishing bad for the other kids. I hope everyone gets the help they need not the help some politically sensitive person thinks has better optics

We all hope everyone gets the help they need. Rather than, for example, assuming that white middle-class kids need gifted classes and black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

There is either an achievement gap or there isn’t. It can’t be a metric of convenience used to justify getting better stuff and invalidating test scores.

Well, there, PP, you just perfectly explained the problem.

White kids, as a group, score better. Does that mean that all white kids need gifted classes? No, it does not. Some white kids need gifted classes, some white kids need regular classes, some white kids need remedial classes.

Black and Hispanic kids, as a group, score worse. Does that mean that all black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes? No, it does not. Some black and Hispanic kids need gifted classes, some black and Hispanic kids need regular classes, some black and Hispanic kids need remedial classes.

Agreed but you fail to mention the ratios. Going by performance, the remedial classes will be disproportionately black and Hispanic. Many people here want to throw out the data lest the optics look bad. Most high schools have a basic functionality math class, what do you think the group of kids looks like that take that sort of class? Very poor and the type of kids who have more immediate stuff to focus on rather than school. That is rarely white kids around these parts but some think it it isn’t an ideal mix of SES and racial diversity it is racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your babysitter who provides after care is near a school then you can get a COSA.

This is probably a better approach than mentioning anything about being ‘gifted’.

It usually doesn’t work because otherwise everyone would just select a babysitter near the school they wanted.

I know someone who got it based on the therapist being located a 5 min dry from the school, but she could show that her son had been in therapy there for years before and the therapist only did day time appointments. Moving him really do reduce the amount of class time missed.

I think it only works when the baby sitter is a family member that can provide free childcare not available near the local school.

I'm the PP whose coworker got the COSA due to a babysitter situation. Yes, the babysitter was their unpaid grandparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is gifted in MCPS.

People like 20:23 think everyone white is gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed but you fail to mention the ratios. Going by performance, the remedial classes will be disproportionately black and Hispanic. Many people here want to throw out the data lest the optics look bad. Most high schools have a basic functionality math class, what do you think the group of kids looks like that take that sort of class? Very poor and the type of kids who have more immediate stuff to focus on rather than school. That is rarely white kids around these parts but some think it it isn’t an ideal mix of SES and racial diversity it is racist?

Now please explain how this is relevant to any given kid being gifted or not. I'll give you a hint: it's not. Because statistics about groups tell you NOTHING about individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed but you fail to mention the ratios. Going by performance, the remedial classes will be disproportionately black and Hispanic. Many people here want to throw out the data lest the optics look bad. Most high schools have a basic functionality math class, what do you think the group of kids looks like that take that sort of class? Very poor and the type of kids who have more immediate stuff to focus on rather than school. That is rarely white kids around these parts but some think it it isn’t an ideal mix of SES and racial diversity it is racist?

Now please explain how this is relevant to any given kid being gifted or not. I'll give you a hint: it's not. Because statistics about groups tell you NOTHING about individuals.

DP

Tell that to MCPS. MCPS disagrees with you and has it’s main focus as ‘closing the achievement gap’. Why does MCPS care so much about that if statistics tell you nothing about individual kids?

FTR, I agree with you and think there needs to be more of a focus on showing improvement in ALL kids. Quit the ridiculous focus on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed but you fail to mention the ratios. Going by performance, the remedial classes will be disproportionately black and Hispanic. Many people here want to throw out the data lest the optics look bad. Most high schools have a basic functionality math class, what do you think the group of kids looks like that take that sort of class? Very poor and the type of kids who have more immediate stuff to focus on rather than school. That is rarely white kids around these parts but some think it it isn’t an ideal mix of SES and racial diversity it is racist?

Now please explain how this is relevant to any given kid being gifted or not. I'll give you a hint: it's not. Because statistics about groups tell you NOTHING about individuals.

DP

Tell that to MCPS. MCPS disagrees with you and has it’s main focus as ‘closing the achievement gap’. Why does MCPS care so much about that if statistics tell you nothing about individual kids?

FTR, I agree with you and think there needs to be more of a focus on showing improvement in ALL kids. Quit the ridiculous focus on race.

No, MCPS does not. MCPS is able to understand that statistics about groups provide useful information, while simultaneously understanding that statistics about groups tell you nothing about individuals.