Prep for HGC and MS magnet tests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had two of my three kids in HGC, one finish magnet middle and about to start magnet HS, and the other going into magnet MS. My oldest is not in the magnet system because we moved here from another state and it was too late for him to test.

What really infuriates me about this debate is how it turns parents on each other, all scrambling for limited spaces in the magnet programs when the real issue is why MCPS keeps the pie so small, and why it does such a terrible job of differentiating and accelerating kids who would thrive under acceleration throughout the school system while keeping them in their home schools. Newsflash -- the magnet programs are *not all that accelerated* in HGC and MS. My kid who went to a school system for K-5 in another state -- with no HGC label -- got just as good or better content and instruction in English, math, and science. There are far more kids in ES who would do just as well in the HGC as my kids or any of their classmates than are given the curriculum and instruction they need based on their potential. Hell, growing up and moving around multiple times to multiple school systems *I* got far better instruction, especially in English, than my HGC kids and magnet MS kid have gotten. The Eastern MS humanities curriculum is certainly *better* than the home MS humanities curriculum in our experience, but not actually all that different than regular instruction and curricula in high-performing school districts elsewhere that don't bear a G/T label.

The magnet programs here are not designed for the "tippy top" of brilliant children. These truly are not "gifted" programs in the most rigorous sense of that word. They're designed for smart and eager students who are able to go beyond what the current (poor) mainstream MCPS curriculum offers, and there are far more kids who fit that description than MCPS makes room for in its programs. And remember what Edison said about genius -- 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration and all that. When, with support and some catch-up coaching, kids whose learning opportunities to date have been short-changed by whatever combination of poor curriculum, poor instruction, and/or life circumstances that have not given them the opportunities and supports to do their best work can succeed in these higher-quality programs, the answer is not, from the school system side, to engage in social engineering to promote access for some and deny access to others. Neither should it be, from the parental side, to spend so much time prepping our individual kids so they have a leg up over other kids because we have the resources to coach them for the tests that were never designed in the first place to be the sole determinant of a kid's ability to do more challenging work.

Just think if all the parents who put so much money and effort into prepping their kids to fight for a slice of the tiny pie would devote even a fraction of their time to advocating for systemic change to make that pie bigger.

The problem is that most don’t want the pie to be bigger. They want classrooms that look a certain way and the ability to brag how advanced their child is.

These are programs for the highly gifted - maybe top 1%+ -- IQ around 150+. That's a different group than gifted, which is top 2-3% -- IQ 130. As a parent who has children in both categories, I can tell you they have very different needs. MCPS and parents need to recognize these differences and have programs for both groups.

There are very very few kids in the 150+ range by definition. Something like 10 kids in each grade all across MCPS if you go by the standard distribution. You can't really have a "program" for such kids coming from such a large geographic area without hours of busing. Their skills would inevitably be scattered also so any sort of curriculum wouldn't really work. If your child is that gifted and feels she wants more you can always supplement outside of school or skip a few grades. There are 150+ kids who do well in normal classrooms in normal schools too you know. They aren't some weird species that needs to be separated from everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have had two of my three kids in HGC, one finish magnet middle and about to start magnet HS, and the other going into magnet MS. My oldest is not in the magnet system because we moved here from another state and it was too late for him to test.

What really infuriates me about this debate is how it turns parents on each other, all scrambling for limited spaces in the magnet programs when the real issue is why MCPS keeps the pie so small, and why it does such a terrible job of differentiating and accelerating kids who would thrive under acceleration throughout the school system while keeping them in their home schools. Newsflash -- the magnet programs are *not all that accelerated* in HGC and MS. My kid who went to a school system for K-5 in another state -- with no HGC label -- got just as good or better content and instruction in English, math, and science. There are far more kids in ES who would do just as well in the HGC as my kids or any of their classmates than are given the curriculum and instruction they need based on their potential. Hell, growing up and moving around multiple times to multiple school systems *I* got far better instruction, especially in English, than my HGC kids and magnet MS kid have gotten. The Eastern MS humanities curriculum is certainly *better* than the home MS humanities curriculum in our experience, but not actually all that different than regular instruction and curricula in high-performing school districts elsewhere that don't bear a G/T label.

The magnet programs here are not designed for the "tippy top" of brilliant children. These truly are not "gifted" programs in the most rigorous sense of that word. They're designed for smart and eager students who are able to go beyond what the current (poor) mainstream MCPS curriculum offers, and there are far more kids who fit that description than MCPS makes room for in its programs. And remember what Edison said about genius -- 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration and all that. When, with support and some catch-up coaching, kids whose learning opportunities to date have been short-changed by whatever combination of poor curriculum, poor instruction, and/or life circumstances that have not given them the opportunities and supports to do their best work can succeed in these higher-quality programs, the answer is not, from the school system side, to engage in social engineering to promote access for some and deny access to others. Neither should it be, from the parental side, to spend so much time prepping our individual kids so they have a leg up over other kids because we have the resources to coach them for the tests that were never designed in the first place to be the sole determinant of a kid's ability to do more challenging work.

Just think if all the parents who put so much money and effort into prepping their kids to fight for a slice of the tiny pie would devote even a fraction of their time to advocating for systemic change to make that pie bigger.

Would love to know which county has such an amazing public school system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had two of my three kids in HGC, one finish magnet middle and about to start magnet HS, and the other going into magnet MS. My oldest is not in the magnet system because we moved here from another state and it was too late for him to test.

What really infuriates me about this debate is how it turns parents on each other, all scrambling for limited spaces in the magnet programs when the real issue is why MCPS keeps the pie so small, and why it does such a terrible job of differentiating and accelerating kids who would thrive under acceleration throughout the school system while keeping them in their home schools. Newsflash -- the magnet programs are *not all that accelerated* in HGC and MS. My kid who went to a school system for K-5 in another state -- with no HGC label -- got just as good or better content and instruction in English, math, and science. There are far more kids in ES who would do just as well in the HGC as my kids or any of their classmates than are given the curriculum and instruction they need based on their potential. Hell, growing up and moving around multiple times to multiple school systems *I* got far better instruction, especially in English, than my HGC kids and magnet MS kid have gotten. The Eastern MS humanities curriculum is certainly *better* than the home MS humanities curriculum in our experience, but not actually all that different than regular instruction and curricula in high-performing school districts elsewhere that don't bear a G/T label.

The magnet programs here are not designed for the "tippy top" of brilliant children. These truly are not "gifted" programs in the most rigorous sense of that word. They're designed for smart and eager students who are able to go beyond what the current (poor) mainstream MCPS curriculum offers, and there are far more kids who fit that description than MCPS makes room for in its programs. And remember what Edison said about genius -- 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration and all that. When, with support and some catch-up coaching, kids whose learning opportunities to date have been short-changed by whatever combination of poor curriculum, poor instruction, and/or life circumstances that have not given them the opportunities and supports to do their best work can succeed in these higher-quality programs, the answer is not, from the school system side, to engage in social engineering to promote access for some and deny access to others. Neither should it be, from the parental side, to spend so much time prepping our individual kids so they have a leg up over other kids because we have the resources to coach them for the tests that were never designed in the first place to be the sole determinant of a kid's ability to do more challenging work.

Just think if all the parents who put so much money and effort into prepping their kids to fight for a slice of the tiny pie would devote even a fraction of their time to advocating for systemic change to make that pie bigger.

Would love to know which county has such an amazing public school system

We moved here from Massachusetts, and have had the same experience. The magnet programs in the elementary and middle school are pretty much the same as the standard programs in our Massachusetts town.

[Anonymous]

A lot of what is written here seems intent on misleading others probably to thin the competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We moved here from Massachusetts, and have had the same experience. The magnet programs in the elementary and middle school are pretty much the same as the standard programs in our Massachusetts town.

Same here (from Illinois)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved here from Massachusetts, and have had the same experience. The magnet programs in the elementary and middle school are pretty much the same as the standard programs in our Massachusetts town.

Same here (from Illinois)

Curious about the typical reading list for an advanced 6th grade student in MA or IL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved here from Massachusetts, and have had the same experience. The magnet programs in the elementary and middle school are pretty much the same as the standard programs in our Massachusetts town.

Same here (from Illinois)

Curious about the typical reading list for an advanced 6th grade student in MA or IL.

PP from IL here. I can’t remember what they read in 6th, and DC is at overnight camp. I can report back in a couple of weeks. I’m pretty sure DC had already read many of the books before they read them in class, but the assignments were deeper. Overall, in reading/writing, our IL schools focused more on anysis (reading) and content (writing), while our MCPS schools seem to focus more on content (reading) and mechanics (writing). So the work here feels more superficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No gifted child needs to prep, study or be tutored. The gift of intelligence, smarts and knowledge is either there or not there.

No child who is behind due to achievement gap should also prep, study or be tutored. The gift of intelligence, smarts and knowledge is either there or not there.

So you don’t account at all for early childhood experiences. You think the gifted kids in MCPS all taught themselves to read at two or do triple digit subtraction at three?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No gifted child needs to prep, study or be tutored. The gift of intelligence, smarts and knowledge is either there or not there.

No child who is behind due to achievement gap should also prep, study or be tutored. The gift of intelligence, smarts and knowledge is either there or not there.

So you don’t account at all for early childhood experiences. You think the gifted kids in MCPS all taught themselves to read at two or do triple digit subtraction at three?

Absolutely. Brilliant geniuses and idiots losers all are naturally born. No need for magnet programs and no need to educated students to close the achievement gap. Some children should be left behind.

[Anonymous]

Why can't we have all kids who are neurotypical and average? Why do we have variations in abilities? Also, were the Spartans right?

[Anonymous]

My kid isn’t “gifted” but is a high performer so I’m prepping her so that she doesn’t have to go to our zoned low performing school that focuses way too much on low performing students. I just want my kid to have a decent and challenging curriculum. Magnet admission for us isn’t about giftedness. It’s about escaping our crappy middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid isn’t “gifted” but is a high performer so I’m prepping her so that she doesn’t have to go to our zoned low performing school that focuses way too much on low performing students. I just want my kid to have a decent and challenging curriculum. Magnet admission for us isn’t about giftedness. It’s about escaping our crappy middle school.

I would then caution you to not let down your guard. Magnet MS, ES and all GT education in MCPS have deteriorated significantly because of MCPS attempts to water down curriculum throughout as well as pushing out excellent teachers. At this point, if you do not supplement outside the school and depend on your kid to learn everything from the magnet program (even if it is better than your crappy school) then you will face another kind of achievement gap. My suggestion would be to look online for curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can't we have all kids who are neurotypical and average? Why do we have variations in abilities? Also, were the Spartans right?

MCPS failed to teach some kids the basic reading and math in their preK,, K, 1st, and 2nd grade years for the past decades. Of course they also received many of the kids who cannot read and do math when they enrolled in MCPS in upper grades. Instead of admit that they have a challenge that beyond their control, MCPS decided to have a war on the students who are at the other end of the normal distribution, or the bell-curve. They spread the runor that the test prep center knows s the content of the test for HGC and magnets, they blamed the parents who prepare their kids for school, and they used dirty methods to reduce the number of Asian students in the Magnet programs.
There is no one size-fit-all education. MCPS works with human beings with different heights, body weights, skin tones, and ability to aquire knowledge. Busing students around will not erase these differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can't we have all kids who are neurotypical and average? Why do we have variations in abilities? Also, were the Spartans right?

MCPS failed to teach some kids the basic reading and math in their preK,, K, 1st, and 2nd grade years for the past decades. Of course they also received many of the kids who cannot read and do math when they enrolled in MCPS in upper grades. Instead of admit that they have a challenge that beyond their control, MCPS decided to have a war on the students who are at the other end of the normal distribution, or the bell-curve. They spread the runor that the test prep center knows s the content of the test for HGC and magnets, they blamed the parents who prepare their kids for school, and they used dirty methods to reduce the number of Asian students in the Magnet programs.
There is no one size-fit-all education. MCPS works with human beings with different heights, body weights, skin tones, and ability to aquire knowledge. Busing students around will not erase these differences.

That must be some powerful weed you've been smoking. It's not that there isn't some kernel of truth here, but most of what you're saying is patently false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid isn’t “gifted” but is a high performer so I’m prepping her so that she doesn’t have to go to our zoned low performing school that focuses way too much on low performing students. I just want my kid to have a decent and challenging curriculum. Magnet admission for us isn’t about giftedness. It’s about escaping our crappy middle school.

I would then caution you to not let down your guard. Magnet MS, ES and all GT education in MCPS have deteriorated significantly because of MCPS attempts to water down curriculum throughout as well as pushing out excellent teachers. At this point, if you do not supplement outside the school and depend on your kid to learn everything from the magnet program (even if it is better than your crappy school) then you will face another kind of achievement gap. My suggestion would be to look online for curriculum.

The opposite seems to be true. In fact, since the advent of universal screening the applicant pool is 5X larger and the most qualified cohort in the county history is now selected. Sure, the uber-preppers whose parents used to game system have a harder time gaining admission, but that's because their kids just aren't that smart.