Oberlin defamation suit and verdict : not a good optic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Don’t Oberlin’s liability insurance companies have a say on the litigation? If I have a car accident, it’s usually the insurance company that determines whether they will fight or settle. The insurance companies must’ve thought this is not as clear-cut as the $11 million judgment against Oberlin suggests. If so, there’s something wrong with the $11 million judgment.

You are assuming the insurance company is involved in funding Oberlin's defense (and I've no indication that is true). And of course insurance companies sometimes make mistakes in assessing case risk. So there may be nothing "wrong" with the $11 million judgment other than that the insurance company (if it is involved) mis-assessed the litigation risk.

Source pls.

Yes I'd like to see a source from the first PP indicating that insurance companies are involved at all. Pure speculation.

It cane out in open court in court’s denial of the tertiary insurance company’s motion to intervene, indicating there is primary and secondary insurance.

Source ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not surprised if insurance companies would want to get involved. $11 million is a high figure, especially for a bakery in a small town.

But the insurance company wanting to get involved doesn't mean Oberlin is innocent. At all. So don't fall into the trap of thinking that somehow it means Oberlin wasn't at fault. The insurance companies are only involved to minimize the financial damages the college will have to pay to the bakery. That is their role and it is not to provide evidence of Oberlin's innocence.

The college's board of trustees should also be reviewing the actions of certain administrators and leaders at the college and why they behaved in the way they are alleged to have behaved without first doing a due process review. And even if the college had sincere reasons to come to the defense of the students who shoplifted and started the fight with the bakery staff, it is also quite clear that the college administrators also encouraged the larger community to directly boycott and interfere with the bakery's operations instead of letting the matter be investigated properly first. That the college dean also specifically asked the bakery to not refer a crime (however petty it was) to the police but to notify the college first, and attempted to withhold evidence (the fake ID) is very much overstepping their responsibilities and implying that the college is above the law in that community. When your local police force has to threaten legal action to get the college to give up the evidence is very damning.

What you are saying is Oberlin crossed its line over zealously protecting its students. Let me know if Oberlin is involved in sexually abusing students under its care (Catholic Church), get caught up in the latest college admissions scandal, including bribery, fraud, and racketeering conspiracy (USC, Stanford, UCLA, UTexas, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Yale, U of San Diego) - or if it has ever accused innocent people of rape and sodomy (Duke.)

Eh? What is this? The subject here isn't the Catholic church. And if you paid attention to the college admissions scandal, the scandal was between certain college employees (the coaches) and parents. The colleges themselves as an entity are not being charged in the suits. These college employees will surely be disciplined appropriately (loss of job for starters). Using this example logically concludes that the Oberlin administrators should also lose their jobs and be prosecuted, but I suspect that wasn't your intent. And I'm pretty sure the Duke situation refers to the Duke lacrosse team and you might want to read up on that particular case before using it as an example.

Oberlin students pleaded *guilty* to theft and assault. I'm not sure why the college feels the need to protect those students in the manner they did. Logically they should have investigated the matter first before reaching a conclusion, which they did not. And the college administration also attempted to interfere with local police investigations on a matter that happened on non-college property and involved non-college affiliated businesses.

That you had to jump to some weird straw man claims involving other universities shows how weak Oberlin's position is here. You know you've lost your argument when you have to resort to claims that at least Oberlin isn't as bad as what other schools may have done. It also makes me wonder what other student crimes Oberlin hid from the public. After all, your reference to the Catholic church scandal does suggest this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin soccer coach tried to recruit my DD to play there. I told my DD I would not pay a dime to a school like Oberlin where there is simply no diversity of political thought on campus.

I went to Oberlin and that's just not true. There is absolutely diversity in political thought there. It's known as a very left wing place - and that is correct - but it's not correct that only left wing folks go there, or anyone else is unwelcome.

Really? Tell us about it.

Tell us about the flourishing (or even barely existing) College Republican club, Turning Point USA, or other conservative student group.

Tell us about the conservative-minded professors who feel completely free to speak and write from their point of view.

Tell us about the on-campus or nearby religious offerings, and the number of students who regularly participate.

Maybe it's self-selecting. We toured there. My DC doesn't want to go to a school with an overwhelming SJW vibe (even though he is quite liberal and politically informed) and that's what we were expecting. Granted, it was a Sunday morning and we didn't see a ton of students, but we were very surprised that we did not get the SJW vibe at all.

So I guess the new definition of "absolute diversity in political thought" is that at least there is no SJW vibe. That's just great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin soccer coach tried to recruit my DD to play there. I told my DD I would not pay a dime to a school like Oberlin where there is simply no diversity of political thought on campus.

I went to Oberlin and that's just not true. There is absolutely diversity in political thought there. It's known as a very left wing place - and that is correct - but it's not correct that only left wing folks go there, or anyone else is unwelcome.

Really? Tell us about it.

Tell us about the flourishing (or even barely existing) College Republican club, Turning Point USA, or other conservative student group.

Tell us about the conservative-minded professors who feel completely free to speak and write from their point of view.

Tell us about the on-campus or nearby religious offerings, and the number of students who regularly participate.

If you are conservative, count your blessings that this group isn't on campus, considering that group's own recent involvment in racist controversies. Is this really the group you want on campus?

What "racist controversies?"

Candace Owens said something stupid about Hitler, and she immediately resigned. Is that what you're referring to? Sort of like Gov Northam D-VA got caught wearing his klan outfit and black face and he res..... oh.... wait.... sorry, I'm getting the stories confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin soccer coach tried to recruit my DD to play there. I told my DD I would not pay a dime to a school like Oberlin where there is simply no diversity of political thought on campus.

Why don’t you ask Michelle Malkin what college produced her?

She graduated 30 years ago. Not relevant to today when 99% of the school body self identifies as liberal or very liberal on Niche.

The school has ALWAYS been a bastion of liberal thought and progressive ideals. First Co-educational college, first to admit African Americans and first school with co-Ed dorms, to name a few of many firsts. Protest and progressivism are part and parcel of the Oberlin experience. Michelle Malkin was an anomaly.

#learningandlabor

[Anonymous]

more like #judgmentandhate

Hope the punitive award triples the verdict.

[Anonymous]

The truth is in the complaint: Oberlin wants the real estate of Gibson’s bakery and thought they could bully their way into it by putting the bakery out of business. Really had nothing to do with racism.

[Anonymous]

Oberlin will probably buy out the bakery since they forced the mom of this mom & pop business to retire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not surprised if insurance companies would want to get involved. $11 million is a high figure, especially for a bakery in a small town.

But the insurance company wanting to get involved doesn't mean Oberlin is innocent. At all. So don't fall into the trap of thinking that somehow it means Oberlin wasn't at fault. The insurance companies are only involved to minimize the financial damages the college will have to pay to the bakery. That is their role and it is not to provide evidence of Oberlin's innocence.

The college's board of trustees should also be reviewing the actions of certain administrators and leaders at the college and why they behaved in the way they are alleged to have behaved without first doing a due process review. And even if the college had sincere reasons to come to the defense of the students who shoplifted and started the fight with the bakery staff, it is also quite clear that the college administrators also encouraged the larger community to directly boycott and interfere with the bakery's operations instead of letting the matter be investigated properly first. That the college dean also specifically asked the bakery to not refer a crime (however petty it was) to the police but to notify the college first, and attempted to withhold evidence (the fake ID) is very much overstepping their responsibilities and implying that the college is above the law in that community. When your local police force has to threaten legal action to get the college to give up the evidence is very damning.

What you are saying is Oberlin crossed its line over zealously protecting its criminals. Let me know if Oberlin is involved in sexually abusing students under its care (Catholic Church), get caught up in the latest college admissions scandal, including bribery, fraud, and racketeering conspiracy (USC, Stanford, UCLA, UTexas, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Yale, U of San Diego) - or if it has ever accused innocent people of rape and sodomy (Duke.)

FTFY.

There was no accusing "innocent people" of anything. The students were guilty, by their own admission, of theft and assault.

The only innocent people here were the hardworking small business owners trying to make an honest living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not surprised if insurance companies would want to get involved. $11 million is a high figure, especially for a bakery in a small town.

But the insurance company wanting to get involved doesn't mean Oberlin is innocent. At all. So don't fall into the trap of thinking that somehow it means Oberlin wasn't at fault. The insurance companies are only involved to minimize the financial damages the college will have to pay to the bakery. That is their role and it is not to provide evidence of Oberlin's innocence.

The college's board of trustees should also be reviewing the actions of certain administrators and leaders at the college and why they behaved in the way they are alleged to have behaved without first doing a due process review. And even if the college had sincere reasons to come to the defense of the students who shoplifted and started the fight with the bakery staff, it is also quite clear that the college administrators also encouraged the larger community to directly boycott and interfere with the bakery's operations instead of letting the matter be investigated properly first. That the college dean also specifically asked the bakery to not refer a crime (however petty it was) to the police but to notify the college first, and attempted to withhold evidence (the fake ID) is very much overstepping their responsibilities and implying that the college is above the law in that community. When your local police force has to threaten legal action to get the college to give up the evidence is very damning.

What you are saying is Oberlin crossed its line over zealously protecting its criminals. Let me know if Oberlin is involved in sexually abusing students under its care (Catholic Church), get caught up in the latest college admissions scandal, including bribery, fraud, and racketeering conspiracy (USC, Stanford, UCLA, UTexas, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Yale, U of San Diego) - or if it has ever accused innocent people of rape and sodomy (Duke.)

FTFY.

There was no accusing "innocent people" of anything. The students were guilty, by their own admission, of theft and assault.

The only innocent people here were the hardworking small business owners trying to make an honest living.

+1,000,000
This story is unbelievable. It's frightening that there are actually people who label the grocer "racist" for calling the police on shoplifters. Who cares what race they were? They were stealing - and then they beat him up. He deserves every penny he gets from this suit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not surprised if insurance companies would want to get involved. $11 million is a high figure, especially for a bakery in a small town.

But the insurance company wanting to get involved doesn't mean Oberlin is innocent. At all. So don't fall into the trap of thinking that somehow it means Oberlin wasn't at fault. The insurance companies are only involved to minimize the financial damages the college will have to pay to the bakery. That is their role and it is not to provide evidence of Oberlin's innocence.

The college's board of trustees should also be reviewing the actions of certain administrators and leaders at the college and why they behaved in the way they are alleged to have behaved without first doing a due process review. And even if the college had sincere reasons to come to the defense of the students who shoplifted and started the fight with the bakery staff, it is also quite clear that the college administrators also encouraged the larger community to directly boycott and interfere with the bakery's operations instead of letting the matter be investigated properly first. That the college dean also specifically asked the bakery to not refer a crime (however petty it was) to the police but to notify the college first, and attempted to withhold evidence (the fake ID) is very much overstepping their responsibilities and implying that the college is above the law in that community. When your local police force has to threaten legal action to get the college to give up the evidence is very damning.

What you are saying is Oberlin crossed its line over zealously protecting its criminals. Let me know if Oberlin is involved in sexually abusing students under its care (Catholic Church), get caught up in the latest college admissions scandal, including bribery, fraud, and racketeering conspiracy (USC, Stanford, UCLA, UTexas, Wake Forest, Georgetown, Yale, U of San Diego) - or if it has ever accused innocent people of rape and sodomy (Duke.)

FTFY.

There was no accusing "innocent people" of anything. The students were guilty, by their own admission, of theft and assault.

The only innocent people here were the hardworking small business owners trying to make an honest living.

+1,000,000
This story is unbelievable. It's frightening that there are actually people who label the grocer "racist" for calling the police on shoplifters. Who cares what race they were? They were stealing - and then they beat him up. He deserves every penny he gets from this suit.

+ 2 million.

And many at Oberlin should resign or be fired.

[Anonymous]

Did anyone catch that one of Oberlin's defenses against the defamation claim was that calling someone racist can't ever be defamation because racist is an opinion? Isn't that convenient.

[Anonymous]

NYTimes ran an article including an interview with Floyd Abrams, a First Amendment lawyer. Abrams states that “the chances of ultimate reversal of the award are substantial.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NYTimes ran an article including an interview with Floyd Abrams, a First Amendment lawyer. Abrams states that “the chances of ultimate reversal of the award are substantial.”

It is an opinion, of course. Doesn't mean it will happen.

I suspect the award will be cut down on appeal but the college still found guilty of some liability.

The particular irony, and from Abrams himself, is his saying that the outcome represented “a double-barreled threat to free speech on campus." I'm not sure if there is true free speech on Oberlin's campus. The pattern of thought policing is infamously associated with Oberlin in the last few years.

And free speech has its own restrictions. Shouting fire in a crowded theater doesn't exclude you from prosecution if there was no such fire and damages occurred in the aftermath of the stampede to get out of the theater. The issue at here is defamation and whether the college aided and abetted by that defamation and if so, to what degree is the college responsible for aiding and abetting the defamation against the bakery? The reports on the actions of key Oberlin administrators surrounding the controversy is not helpful on Oberlin's behalf because it shows a pattern of the college administrators intervening on behalf of the students.

[Anonymous]

Was the shoplifter disciplined by the college?