Care to share your child's CES raw scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. +1, PP. Sometimes true.

A girl from our school - from a first-generation immigrant Chinese family - got accepted. Her father has literally lived at our school starting from K (I guess his government job gave him this ample opportunity), volunteering for every single event and knowing everyone and everybody. He micromanaged his kid education down to the selection of books she read. He was hanging out in class every Friday. And, of course, for the girl, there were Kumons, Mathnasiums, and, the culmination of it all, A plus with the entire fall semester worth of Cogat prep.

Honestly, I have seriously mixed feelings about this. That girl is not a genius, not even close (as fate would have it, she used to be good friends with my child, until intense test-prep put too many demands on her schedule), but the sheer amount of determination/time/money/effort and opportunity cost that went into this girl's admission makes me think, hey, that dad did it. Mission accomplished, and, in some twisted way, it is fair.

However, this has nothing to do with 'gifts' and 'talents', this is outright cramming on the part of the child coupled with curry favoring on the part of the parent.

PP, you are way up in this child's business. Which means, additionally, that you know that the costs of this approach may very well far outweigh the benefit of admission into a CES.

+1 My first and only thought was "poor kid."

Of course, because a different way than yours is a harmful, crazy way, right?
How about we rewrite this with a new perspective?
Recent immigrant notices that his child is running circles around her preschool friends academically. Perhaps it is because he reads to her and does simple math games with her in the car, or perhaps because she is taught to listen to her teacher and do her very best, or perhaps because she is just clever that way. When kindergarten starts, he hopes the school will challenge her, but quickly realizes that the class pace allows for little differentiation. She cries at home because she is not learning anything, her classmates are super loud and disruptive, and she is frustrated. He decides to volunteer and sees that some of the kids are just now learning how to hold a book. Most of the kids talk only about the tv shows they watch. The teacher is kind and supportive and dealing with too much to give her more than a few minutes of enrichment a day. He asks if he can volunteer to help and she tells him that would be awesome. He comes in weekly and does photocopies, helps in reading groups and makes the teacher (and kids) lives a little better for two hours a week. He goes along on class trips and such because his daughter is a little clingy and also because he generally enjoys being with the kids. The next few years are similar, except that he comes to realize that the school has absolutely no plans to challenge his daughter’s mind unless she goes to CES. He sees how she plays “math” games on the computer and how the school library is increasingly stocked with graphic novels that have all the academic virtue of bubblegum. He decides that his daughter is perfectly capable of more and he tries a prep program. She likes it fine (way better than regular school!) and makes great leaps in math and reading. They suggest that he encourage her to read at least some “real” books instead of series trash and he couldn’t agree more. They seem to be the only people he has met in this country who believe that his daughter deserves to learn something when she is at school. In reading more interesting books, his daughter learns to love reading and gains a phenomenal vocabulary. His daughter makes friends in the weekend classes and they go to the park together for the afternoon. Those kids have something to talk about other than tv shows and video games and they don’t freak her out with constant misbehavior so she is happy to play with them.
She gets into CES and everyone looks daggers at her evil dad for supporting her mind.

Not saying this version is true, just that you don’t know if that little girl is bright or brilliant because you have no ability to assess that.

[Anonymous]

Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

You have to value education just the right amount and just the right way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

You have to value education just the right amount and just the right way.

It's the "American way is the only way" mentality.

That father *clearly* values education and wants what he thinks is best for his kid. He is willing to put that effort into it. Doesn't matter if he's an immigrant or not. If most American parents could put half the amount of effort into their kids' education as this father does, I bet kids would be doing a lot better in school.

I am not saying every parent should be like that father, but we need more parents who care about their kids' education, not less, and mocking such a parent is not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

You have to value education just the right amount and just the right way.

It's the "American way is the only way" mentality.

That father *clearly* values education and wants what he thinks is best for his kid. He is willing to put that effort into it. Doesn't matter if he's an immigrant or not. If most American parents could put half the amount of effort into their kids' education as this father does, I bet kids would be doing a lot better in school.

I am not saying every parent should be like that father, but we need more parents who care about their kids' education, not less, and mocking such a parent is not helpful.

+1 You really can't sleep on the race and class elements at play here, though. From the sneering about the government job to the mention of the family's heritage, this is textbook white fragility when it comes to high performing kids of color.

The flip side, of course, is that the same folks will turn around and complain that "all their taxes" go to pay for undeserving families who don't care about education.

In both cases, you have white people who believe that their child is somehow getting the sharp end of the stick in an increasingly multicultural county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. +1, PP. Sometimes true.

A girl from our school - from a first-generation immigrant Chinese family - got accepted. Her father has literally lived at our school starting from K (I guess his government job gave him this ample opportunity), volunteering for every single event and knowing everyone and everybody. He micromanaged his kid education down to the selection of books she read. He was hanging out in class every Friday. And, of course, for the girl, there were Kumons, Mathnasiums, and, the culmination of it all, A plus with the entire fall semester worth of Cogat prep.

Honestly, I have seriously mixed feelings about this. That girl is not a genius, not even close (as fate would have it, she used to be good friends with my child, until intense test-prep put too many demands on her schedule), but the sheer amount of determination/time/money/effort and opportunity cost that went into this girl's admission makes me think, hey, that dad did it. Mission accomplished, and, in some twisted way, it is fair.

However, this has nothing to do with 'gifts' and 'talents', this is outright cramming on the part of the child coupled with curry favoring on the part of the parent.

PP, you are way up in this child's business. Which means, additionally, that you know that the costs of this approach may very well far outweigh the benefit of admission into a CES.

+1 My first and only thought was "poor kid."

Of course, because a different way than yours is a harmful, crazy way, right?
How about we rewrite this with a new perspective?
Recent immigrant notices that his child is running circles around her preschool friends academically. Perhaps it is because he reads to her and does simple math games with her in the car, or perhaps because she is taught to listen to her teacher and do her very best, or perhaps because she is just clever that way. When kindergarten starts, he hopes the school will challenge her, but quickly realizes that the class pace allows for little differentiation. She cries at home because she is not learning anything, her classmates are super loud and disruptive, and she is frustrated. He decides to volunteer and sees that some of the kids are just now learning how to hold a book. Most of the kids talk only about the tv shows they watch. The teacher is kind and supportive and dealing with too much to give her more than a few minutes of enrichment a day. He asks if he can volunteer to help and she tells him that would be awesome. He comes in weekly and does photocopies, helps in reading groups and makes the teacher (and kids) lives a little better for two hours a week. He goes along on class trips and such because his daughter is a little clingy and also because he generally enjoys being with the kids. The next few years are similar, except that he comes to realize that the school has absolutely no plans to challenge his daughter’s mind unless she goes to CES. He sees how she plays “math” games on the computer and how the school library is increasingly stocked with graphic novels that have all the academic virtue of bubblegum. He decides that his daughter is perfectly capable of more and he tries a prep program. She likes it fine (way better than regular school!) and makes great leaps in math and reading. They suggest that he encourage her to read at least some “real” books instead of series trash and he couldn’t agree more. They seem to be the only people he has met in this country who believe that his daughter deserves to learn something when she is at school. In reading more interesting books, his daughter learns to love reading and gains a phenomenal vocabulary. His daughter makes friends in the weekend classes and they go to the park together for the afternoon. Those kids have something to talk about other than tv shows and video games and they don’t freak her out with constant misbehavior so she is happy to play with them.
She gets into CES and everyone looks daggers at her evil dad for supporting her mind.

Not saying this version is true, just that you don’t know if that little girl is bright or brilliant because you have no ability to assess that.

+1

Also, there is no magic formula, really. I know kids who did all this and ended up not getting into the magnet. In fact, majority of the kids who go to these classes do not get in. So there is no way one can point to a kid and say he or she qualified for a magnet program only because of mathnasium/A plus/etc. It is not my cup of tea, but I will not blame the parents who send their kids to those classes as the reason for my DC not getting into a magnet program. (Well, I do pity them since I think it is a waste of money - but hey, to each his own..)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Also, there is no magic formula, really. I know kids who did all this and ended up not getting into the magnet. In fact, majority of the kids who go to these classes do not get in. So there is no way one can point to a kid and say he or she qualified for a magnet program only because of mathnasium/A plus/etc. It is not my cup of tea, but I will not blame the parents who send their kids to those classes as the reason for my DC not getting into a magnet program. (Well, I do pity them since I think it is a waste of money - but hey, to each his own..)

I used to think these prep classes were terrible for kids, but I'm not so sure anymore, especially given the debacle of 2.0. I don't think these prep classes do that much for kids getting into CES, however, I think there is value in it just overall. An hour a week spent on extra math/reading/writing is not going to harm the kid. If anything, it will help. More kids should do this. It's also a way to make friends outside of school.

I used to be a naysayer. Not anymore. Even doing a math workbook at home is helpful. The good thing about those classes is that they get to be with other kids.

[Anonymous]

extra tutoring only helps if the kids show up. The kids who most need help don't show up even to Saturday school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

+1 OMG. This is so right on target. I've been really disgusted by the comments. Black/brown/Asian parents and kids just can't get a break no matter what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

+1 OMG. This is so right on target. I've been really disgusted by the comments. Black/brown/Asian parents and kids just can't get a break no matter what they do.

I can't speak for the other groups, but as an Asian American parent, I do feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. And it's not just in education. If I act too white or married to a white guy, then I must be a race hater. If I speak my parent's language in public, then I'm not integrated to American society enough. I know not all white people think this way, but for the folks who do, there is no pleasing you, so screw you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

You have to value education just the right amount and just the right way.

It's the "American way is the only way" mentality.

That father *clearly* values education and wants what he thinks is best for his kid. He is willing to put that effort into it. Doesn't matter if he's an immigrant or not. If most American parents could put half the amount of effort into their kids' education as this father does, I bet kids would be doing a lot better in school.


Okay, but do you really think that degree of micromanaging a kid's *elementary school* career is healthy? My kid got into the CES without any of that. She was a naturally brilliant kid, whom everyone recognized as an outlier, and who from second grade sought out her own supplementary materials. All I did was take her to the library and let her pick what she wanted. She did the rest on her own, as it should be.

I am not saying every parent should be like that father, but we need more parents who care about their kids' education, not less, and mocking such a parent is not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

+1 OMG. This is so right on target. I've been really disgusted by the comments. Black/brown/Asian parents and kids just can't get a break no matter what they do.

What makes you think white parents are starting the achievement gap threads. Genuine question. When I see those, I assume it's Asian parents. Actually I've come to assume this entire forum tips Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

+1 OMG. This is so right on target. I've been really disgusted by the comments. Black/brown/Asian parents and kids just can't get a break no matter what they do.

What makes you think white parents are starting the achievement gap threads. Genuine question. When I see those, I assume it's Asian parents. Actually I've come to assume this entire forum tips Asian.

Why would you assume that? Do you know many Asian American parents?

Asian parents aren't that concerned about the achievement gap. They believe all children have potential and should try harder. It's not the Asian American parents pushing MCPS to close the achievement gap. That's not to say they don't care about other kids, but just that they believe most of it starts at home.


--signed an Asian American parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

You have to value education just the right amount and just the right way.

It's the "American way is the only way" mentality.

That father *clearly* values education and wants what he thinks is best for his kid. He is willing to put that effort into it. Doesn't matter if he's an immigrant or not. If most American parents could put half the amount of effort into their kids' education as this father does, I bet kids would be doing a lot better in school.


Okay, but do you really think that degree of micromanaging a kid's *elementary school* career is healthy? My kid got into the CES without any of that. She was a naturally brilliant kid, whom everyone recognized as an outlier, and who from second grade sought out her own supplementary materials. All I did was take her to the library and let her pick what she wanted. She did the rest on her own, as it should be.

“Other perspective” poster here.
PP, my (white) kid got into CES without prep programs, too. There are kids in his class who seem to be the “brilliant” kids who you might have picked over my child, perhaps because he is generally quiet and they like to shine for the teacher. We don’t share our test scores at the school, so not sure how any other parent could possibly know his abilities. But to say we didn’t prep “or any of that” is just ridiculous. I can read English easily, first of all, so it has always been easy to read to him. I’ve done stuff like play games with him and take him to the library and museums. I feel confident navigating our community and taking him to interesting places. If I didn’t speak the native language of my child’s public school, I might opt for purchasing some local supplementation if language skills were considered crucial... maybe. Point is, you do you and maybe don’t jump to judge as unhealthy other parents’ choices, unless you see real abuse, because every different kid and family and culture has value, even if strange to you. There are very few universal “as it should be’s.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some (white) folks on DCUM are really truly awful.

If a Black or brown kid doesn't do well, it is because their parents "don't value education."


But if a first generation immigrant kid of color does well, it is because her dad volunteers at the school too much.

My G-d.

You have to value education just the right amount and just the right way.

It's the "American way is the only way" mentality.

That father *clearly* values education and wants what he thinks is best for his kid. He is willing to put that effort into it. Doesn't matter if he's an immigrant or not. If most American parents could put half the amount of effort into their kids' education as this father does, I bet kids would be doing a lot better in school.

I am not saying every parent should be like that father, but we need more parents who care about their kids' education, not less, and mocking such a parent is not helpful.

Okay, but do you really think that degree of micromanaging a kid's *elementary school* career is healthy? My kid got into the CES without any of that. She was a naturally brilliant kid, whom everyone recognized as an outlier, and who from second grade sought out her own supplementary materials. All I did was take her to the library and let her pick what she wanted. She did the rest on her own, as it should be.

So did my kid. No prep at all in terms of the test. Like I said, I don't think we should all be like that parent, but if most parents could put in even half the effort that father does, the state of our education be a whole lot better.

I would rather have that father in my DC's class than a parent who doesn't care, never volunteers even when they could. We have plenty of those. We need more of the other kind.