Please explain how Henry parent position on CC makes sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goldstein also seems to be leaning against neighborhood high school because of the prolonged construction period involved.

Goldstein was against it once it was clear it would suck.
He was like, “ just stick a bunch of trailers everywhere, because I’m tired of being the only one who looks ahead and gives a FVck.

I wouldn’t say that, NVD is talking about the need to start working with the county now to identify sites for future schools, even if they’re years down the road.

[Anonymous]

Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

[Anonymous]

I’m thinking they need to run the CC “choice” program hunger games style.
When whatever program they cobble together doesn’t attract enough students, all kids are entered into the lottery. That way all families have the potential to be equally screwed by this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goldstein also seems to be leaning against neighborhood high school because of the prolonged construction period involved.

Goldstein was against it once it was clear it would suck.
He was like, “ just stick a bunch of trailers everywhere, because I’m tired of being the only one who looks ahead and gives a FVck.

I wouldn’t say that, NVD is talking about the need to start working with the county now to identify sites for future schools, even if they’re years down the road.

And I would say NVD has been sitting on the board long enough to have asked that FVCKING QUESTION YEARS AGO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone in SA knows that if a 4th HS is built, it'll probably siphon off all the UMC from Wakefield. It's not that current residents don't like the Wakefield that exists right now. Its a good facility and a mostly integrated school. But what will happen to it if a new school is plopped down north of the pike? That's a no brainer.

This is just not true. If you look at the stats for TJ and Kenmore they are almost equal demographically after the last rezone. There is enough low income housing south of the pike to split between 2 high schools almost evenly.

But the cc high school would be mostly neighborhoods north of the pike, probably including a chunk of Lyon village. That's why Wakefield will lose its middle class students. Just watch Oakridge organize a lobbying effort to get sent to a "substandard" school in a couple years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

It’s so weird and distracting. And it’s not like he’s actually staking any positions, he’s just kind of hinting at stuff and hoping other people will run with it instead of having courage of conviction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

It’s so weird and distracting. And it’s not like he’s actually staking any positions, he’s just kind of hinting at stuff and hoping other people will run with it instead of having courage of conviction.

He’s given up.
I would too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

It’s so weird and distracting. And it’s not like he’s actually staking any positions, he’s just kind of hinting at stuff and hoping other people will run with it instead of having courage of conviction.

He’s given up.
I would too.

It's a really crappy job for $25k/year (based on googling). I would not volunteer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

It’s so weird and distracting. And it’s not like he’s actually staking any positions, he’s just kind of hinting at stuff and hoping other people will run with it instead of having courage of conviction.

He’s given up.
I would too.

So his position is a neighborhood school would be inequitable, but all the buses of a choice program give him heartburn. He doesn’t want to spend reserve funds, but he wants to tear down Henry to make a field. And then maybe we should build all the amenities (including a pool) first and then add seats later. I cannot figure out what end goal he has in mind because it’s all so incoherent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

It’s so weird and distracting. And it’s not like he’s actually staking any positions, he’s just kind of hinting at stuff and hoping other people will run with it instead of having courage of conviction.

He’s given up.
I would too.

So his position is a neighborhood school would be inequitable, but all the buses of a choice program give him heartburn. He doesn’t want to spend reserve funds, but he wants to tear down Henry to make a field. And then maybe we should build all the amenities (including a pool) first and then add seats later. I cannot figure out what end goal he has in mind because it’s all so incoherent.

Sounds like he thinks everyone should just deal with their current zoned schools, until a proper high school can be built.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I’ve been following relatively closely but am confused by one thing. When the SB announced the hybrid solution — which I agree 100% was/is stupid, poorly thought out, and poorly articulated, and that Kenmore was/is the right choice for a 4th comprehensive HS — I read it entirely as choice seats for the CC site. I recall the presentation saying something about needing to settle on the educational focus, or whatever the lingo, for those seats. Fast forward 9 months or so, the neighborhoods in question are now rejecting inferior neighborhood seats (fair) *but also* rejecting additional choice seats. So how are we to read this as anything other than the neighborhoods making a grab for their own 4th comprehensive HS (which was basically already rejected as an option by the SB last year) and then throwing a hissy fit when they’re told that isn’t going to happen? Am I misremembering how we got here? Again, I completely and totally agree that this sucks and is stupid, but I don’t see how these neighborhoods truly expected some other outcome. Arl Heights poster and others in the know, what’s the answer?

And please, I’m on the 22204 list serve and am by now familiar with the talking points. Yes, it’s unfair to have inferior neighborhood seats. Yes, no other site has so many choice seats. I’m trying to figure out if I’m really missing information, or if the advocates have just wholly bought into their own spin.

As I recall, only a short time before the hybrid option came down the SB decided to expand Arl Tech by another 800 (now 600) seats and brought up CTE to 300 seats. Once people started hearing about this they conflated it with the hybrid option seats, and then lost some trust when it was explained to them that the SB planned to add 1900 seats over the next couple of years but had only really advertised about 800 of those seats. Most of that number were choice seats, but when the SB refused to commit to an educational focus for the 800, that started to worry people. The nightmare scenario was that the SB would say these would "probably" be choice seats while they built it, only to be unable to fill these seats and then switch gears to make it a neighborhood school without any of the facilities. (We've seen this borne out to an extent as Arl Tech, which is a great program, has struggled to meet its enrollment targets). And why else would the SB refuse to commit to a focus at that point but to preserve that option down the road? If you're the neighborhood in that situation, you have several choices:
1)Do Nothing. Wait as the process plays itself out, and hope that the SB doesn't decide to screw the rare neighborhood that has yet to demand anything from them.
2)Go full NIMBY and threaten to burn this mother down (I like to call this the "Glencarlyn gambit")
3)Push the SB to commit to making them choice seats. The problem with this is that A)There's already a lot of choice seats and that's a big burden on the neighborhood in terms of traffic and construction w/out much in return, and B)you can't stop the school board from reversing itself later on when the students don't show up. Which seems more likely if they don't bother to put in at least some of the trappings of a high school, like a field space.
4)Push the SB to admit it's preserving the option for neighborhood seats because it is very likely to actually need them, and it would be better for the entire county to recognize this fact before spending $100 million on a gamble to avoid building a 4th high school, only to be in an even worse fiscal position once it realizes the gamble failed.

It's clear from the fact that so many Arlington residents are accusing the neighborhood of a brazen "grab" followed by "hissy fits" and "buying their own spin," that the correct answer was, and always will be 2). Don't play along with the County because they will likely try to screw you. And don't ask for anything from the county like fair or equal treatment because then you're just a selfish jerk. Just say no and fight it all tooth and nail, and hope that someone else ends up getting screwed instead, because you can be sure that's the other neighborhood's plan for you.

I've learned a lot about my fellow Arlingtonians during this process.

I appreciate how you remembered some of the finer details re. all the option seats and determining what type of option programs people were interested in. Remember that survey and the big list of potential option programs? Whatever happened to that, anyway!?

But once again, it has been mis-stated that Arlington Tech has had trouble meeting its enrollment goals. We are entering the third year and it has met its original goals for all three years. It technically fell short this year at 130 instead of 200 but that 200 was an increased goal. So, it actually significantly exceeded its originally planned goal of 100. And in fairness, the program doesn't seem to be gaining broad popularity fast because of a number of factors, primarily the lack of investment in time and properly making PARENTS understand what the program is and selling it. And, even more relevant, additional students continue to be interested but ultimately opt not to go becaues of the lack of athletics and/or music/arts, or because their parents don't get it yet.

Interesting point that APS could have just gone ahead with the 800-seat expansion instead of establishing a working group. I was kind of wondering why we needed a working group to determine how to add 800 seats. But the impetus for the working group was really to feel out the site for a 4th high school and how one could be phased in. Because the SB finally was coming around to seeing the need for a fourth comprehensive. So, the neighborhood has no business fighting the 800 seats because that was the other half of the ed center solution. And the SB did indeed change course and made those 800 seats (or is now calling them such in all their proposals) neighborhood seats - precisely because that's what hte neighborhood kept clamoring for and insisting on.

I think the neighborhoods are also ignoring the fact that even with neighborhood seats, there are going to be more students coming in by cars and buses for choice seats and some of those neighborhood seats. If we want to debate the traffic and parking impacts, we should look at how many students within the walk zones of the other high schools actually walk and see exactly how much of a difference neighborhood v. choice makes.

Neighborhoods can provide input and advocate for what they want; but it isn't their high school. It's the County's and other peoples' desires and needs matter, too. The whole point of a working group is to bring those desires as well as the concerns to the table - concerns to be noted and mitigated the best possible once a decision is made. But neighborhoods do not have a "right" to "refuse" choice v. neighborhood seats, or even instructional focus. Those are decisions to be made to serve the system, not the neighborhood. The timeline for the CC portion of the 1300 seats is already being delayed by two or possibly four years - at least partially in an effort to provide more funds to be able to provide at least some amenities when the seats open. Meanwhile, the CTE, CC, ACHS, and AT students continue to be crammed into an insufficient space - I don't care how many internal renovations they do, it's insufficient and lacks basics like a library and cafeteria and a full gymnasium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I’ve been following relatively closely but am confused by one thing. When the SB announced the hybrid solution — which I agree 100% was/is stupid, poorly thought out, and poorly articulated, and that Kenmore was/is the right choice for a 4th comprehensive HS — I read it entirely as choice seats for the CC site. I recall the presentation saying something about needing to settle on the educational focus, or whatever the lingo, for those seats. Fast forward 9 months or so, the neighborhoods in question are now rejecting inferior neighborhood seats (fair) *but also* rejecting additional choice seats. So how are we to read this as anything other than the neighborhoods making a grab for their own 4th comprehensive HS (which was basically already rejected as an option by the SB last year) and then throwing a hissy fit when they’re told that isn’t going to happen? Am I misremembering how we got here? Again, I completely and totally agree that this sucks and is stupid, but I don’t see how these neighborhoods truly expected some other outcome. Arl Heights poster and others in the know, what’s the answer?

And please, I’m on the 22204 list serve and am by now familiar with the talking points. Yes, it’s unfair to have inferior neighborhood seats. Yes, no other site has so many choice seats. I’m trying to figure out if I’m really missing information, or if the advocates have just wholly bought into their own spin.

This is exactly how I remember it, too. All along they have said they can't put the equivalent amenities on the site, which was why they said the seats were TBD, focus decided later. Frankly, that is asinine. Who just plops a school down at a site and then decides what the focus should be after the fact? Should t the site itself dictate what the optimal focus would be? But, I digress.

The neighborhood kept on with the drum beat of "neighborhood seats," so what staff and the SB heard was, "yes, we understand the site and financial limitations and we accept whatever you put here, as long as they are neighborhood seats." Y'all were misled, but not by APS. They also didn't promise you that the Henry boundary would not change when the school moved to a new physical location. Again, you're hearing what you want to hear and not hearing what they are actually saying.

Arl Heights poster again. The "all along they have said they can't put the equivalent amenities" is NOT true. The architects showed us 6 to 8 story buildings with a gymnasium, auditorium, pool--everything--within the footprint of the building. All that was left was outside space. The 6 to 8 story building would take up about 4 acres, leaving 8 acres for open space. This is what we were told, and in hindsight, with the intent to get community buy-in.

Fast forward to today. Now we are told: can't move Henry, can't move Community High School, can't move any CTE programs, can't move the daycare. Okay, then. Why they thought with so many competing interests on that small piece of land that they could do anything with it is beyond me. BTW, this is all stuff we learned along the process.

And again, we NEVER said we accept whatever you put here. NEVER. Please stop spreading that lie.

I'll leave your Henry boundary stuff for another post.

THAT's not true. Per the CCWG charge, all programs on the site in 2019 were to remain "at least through 2022." So, it is misleading to say that they changed their tune and recently started to say those things can't be moved. As someone who has been at almost all of the CCWG meetings, I never once heard the architects say they could fit ALL amenities on the site - there was ALWAYS discussion of at least some being off-site. This is not stuff learned along the process - perhaps for you; but not for those who were listening at the beginning. And even if all the amenities in totem could fit on the parcel, the funding isn't currently there to make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Reid turned away from the table staring at the wall?

Because what does it matter

It’s so weird and distracting. And it’s not like he’s actually staking any positions, he’s just kind of hinting at stuff and hoping other people will run with it instead of having courage of conviction.

He’s given up.
I would too.

So his position is a neighborhood school would be inequitable, but all the buses of a choice program give him heartburn. He doesn’t want to spend reserve funds, but he wants to tear down Henry to make a field. And then maybe we should build all the amenities (including a pool) first and then add seats later. I cannot figure out what end goal he has in mind because it’s all so incoherent.

Sounds like he thinks everyone should just deal with their current zoned schools, until a proper high school can be built.

No, he wants us to use commercial space, even though he doesn't know what the difference would be between buying or leasing that space or anything about how it would work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, I guess that is the disconnect then. I mean, they certainly strung us along by asking for private meetings, forming the working group (which in hindsight was totally unnecessary), and telling us privately that there was space for everything except baseball/softball diamonds. They certainly got a lot of us supporting them and trying to get the neighborhood behind it. And believe me, it's much easier to get a group of people to oppose something, rather than support something.

I also hear the Wakefield thing quite a lot, and it makes me sad. My kids aren't old enough yet, but the neighborhood kids who go there love it. Again, another reason to have been a NIMBY all along. And most of you won't believe me anyway.

It's never too late to go full NIMBY! Just think of the possibilities: use permits, environmental impact assessments, zoning changes. Some people are even threatening Title VII! Why, the right lawyer could drag this process out for YEARS. [/sarcasm]

Okay. If you were in my place, WWYD?

Advocate like hell and get all your friends and neighbors to do the same against neighborhood seats in the short-term at the CC. Make sure they are option seats with a developed plan for ultimately creating the 4th high school properly.