Goodbye Barcroft (APS)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do the kids who are zoned to Barcorft go if this happens? It says its one of the most walkable schools, but many people don't use it. I'm guessing the Spanish speaking kids would stay and walk, but what about families who don't want immersion?

Choice out like they right now. Making Barcroft immersion isn't about making UMC in the walk zone attend. It's to draw UMC from outside who want immersion.

There are more families choosing this school with the new principal. Where will they all go? I think the issue is that all the people who could already choiced out - the rest are stuck going, which might be good for the school, but a problem if it becomes choice.

There have been multiple statements about this, that more families are choosing to stay at Barcroft rather than opt-out with the new principal. This is her first year - are folks talking about future families choosing to give it a go? 'cause enrollment is down significantly again this year.

Barcroft is like “fetch”. It’s never gonna happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do the kids who are zoned to Barcorft go if this happens? It says its one of the most walkable schools, but many people don't use it. I'm guessing the Spanish speaking kids would stay and walk, but what about families who don't want immersion?

Choice out like they right now. Making Barcroft immersion isn't about making UMC in the walk zone attend. It's to draw UMC from outside who want immersion.

There are more families choosing this school with the new principal. Where will they all go? I think the issue is that all the people who could already choiced out - the rest are stuck going, which might be good for the school, but a problem if it becomes choice.

There have been multiple statements about this, that more families are choosing to stay at Barcroft rather than opt-out with the new principal. This is her first year - are folks talking about future families choosing to give it a go? 'cause enrollment is down significantly again this year.

Barcroft is like “fetch”. It’s never gonna happen.

It definitely won't if they take Alcova to Fleet, which I think they are primed to do, and why they are thinking of making Barcroft an option. What other PU's can they pull in that won't drastically increase the fr/l rate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As someone whose children actually goes to school with kids from these apartments I find all of these comments in this thread and others incredibly insensitive and hateful. Do you think it's the fault of those children or families that they h ave fewer resources or are new to the country? Should we simply refuse to educate or house economically disadvantaged children? These are human beings, not pawns or numbers or test scores. And many of them are smart and motivated and great peers.

I’m never impressed by people who care about their politics than their own kid’s education.
That complex is 55 acres of poverty, and a huge obstacle to well ingrated schools.
No is suggesting humans aren’t living in those buildings. We are suggesting that 55 acres and 1,000’s of units ( and 100’s more planned) of 100% low income population is unbelievably bad policy.

Arlington County has basically ignored 30 years of research in urban areas across the country. ALL of them concluded that concentrating public housing in one small area produced nothing but bad outcomes, and stacked the deck against any of those families rising out of their economic/educational situation. It's why Chicago started breaking up Cabrini Green like 15-20 years ago! Cities realized it's much better to build mixed-use housing, with set aside affordable units. Or spreading smaller public housing buildings across the area. Concentrated poverty is a death spiral. And yes, I realize there are differences between AH and true public housing, but the results are the same. In an ideal world you'd raze Barcroft, and rebuild a mix of townhomes, condos and newer higher-rise apartment buildings, with a good chunk of the units set aside for low income families that qualify.

I am the PP. I never said that I think pockets of poverty are good or that I agree with all of the County Board's housing policies. My issue is that when people are complaining about these systemic issues they often use divisive and accusatory language that sounds like it is the children themselves that are failures or sinking the school. This type of language can be inflammatory, especially when dealing with language and cultural differences. It then makes it easier for old guard supposedly-well-intentioned liberals to paint you as intolerant bigots. While the comments about Barcroft apartments in this thread weren't horrible---I have little patience from reading years of this type of rhetoric.

For the record, our family uses one of the neighborhood schools with lower test scores and we are extremely happy with our children's academic achievements and progress and school community. We do believe in greater socioeconomic integration for the sake of all students. We are able to give our children additional resources and enrichment opportunities outside of school. While our school does a fantastic job with many of its students and families, the lack of additional resources from having more families with cultural and economic capital to share is a disservice to some of the more economically disadvantaged kids.

Well for starters don’t refer to a longstanding complex that

And for the record---differentiation and challenging more advanced kids is not an issue in our experience at our school (because this always comes up).

It's great to want change and not to want to have huge pockets of poverty. Let's just make sure we're addressing the systemic issues and not sounding like we're blaming the victims. When you do that it's off-putting and harder to get people on your side.

What phraseology would you suggest people use so that we can discuss these issues? Because it has been my experience, as a parent in one of these schools, that the entire topic is off-limits because someone might be offended. no matter how thoughtfully or respectfully one tries to be, someone puts a stop to it on behalf of someone else they presume will be offended. But we have to be able to discuss the issues of segregation, resources, needs, and impacts on education. So please provide some advice as to how that can be done without someone somewhere sometime somehow taking some kind of offense.



Well for starters don’t refer to a large complex that thousands of families call home as an “alabatross.” Don’t demean communities or belittle people regardless of your intent. Point to the numerous well-researched studies that demonstrate that economically-integrated schools are better for everyone. And recognize the fact that historically minorities and disadvantaged communities have had to bear most of the inconvenience and make sacrifices in the name of integration. Don't approach this from a position of privilege intimating that wealthier families have a right to be in schools and that poor students and English language learners bring a school down. Start from a place of shared goals (better resources and educational outcomes for all) and go from there. This is like politics, communications and coalition building 101. Also maybe try to engage directly with communities you want to influence and listen instead of approaching these issues from an us vs. them perspective.

[Anonymous]

Forget trying. No one can talk about economic segregation in this county without rousing the nutty VOICE lobby that will show up in matching T shirts and call you a racist. Even though what you want is for ARlington to stop segregating its poor. They’ll say—like this person on this thread—that you are calling poor immigrants stupid when it couldn’t be further from the truth. You get no credit for trying to help—even if you send your kids to school and volunteer everyday. Leave Randolph & Barcroft to the poor and the nasty, mindless liberal VOICE segregation advocates who manipulate them. You’ve been forewarned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As someone whose children actually goes to school with kids from these apartments I find all of these comments in this thread and others incredibly insensitive and hateful. Do you think it's the fault of those children or families that they h ave fewer resources or are new to the country? Should we simply refuse to educate or house economically disadvantaged children? These are human beings, not pawns or numbers or test scores. And many of them are smart and motivated and great peers.

I’m never impressed by people who care about their politics than their own kid’s education.
That complex is 55 acres of poverty, and a huge obstacle to well ingrated schools.
No is suggesting humans aren’t living in those buildings. We are suggesting that 55 acres and 1,000’s of units ( and 100’s more planned) of 100% low income population is unbelievably bad policy.

Arlington County has basically ignored 30 years of research in urban areas across the country. ALL of them concluded that concentrating public housing in one small area produced nothing but bad outcomes, and stacked the deck against any of those families rising out of their economic/educational situation. It's why Chicago started breaking up Cabrini Green like 15-20 years ago! Cities realized it's much better to build mixed-use housing, with set aside affordable units. Or spreading smaller public housing buildings across the area. Concentrated poverty is a death spiral. And yes, I realize there are differences between AH and true public housing, but the results are the same. In an ideal world you'd raze Barcroft, and rebuild a mix of townhomes, condos and newer higher-rise apartment buildings, with a good chunk of the units set aside for low income families that qualify.

I am the PP. I never said that I think pockets of poverty are good or that I agree with all of the County Board's housing policies. My issue is that when people are complaining about these systemic issues they often use divisive and accusatory language that sounds like it is the children themselves that are failures or sinking the school. This type of language can be inflammatory, especially when dealing with language and cultural differences. It then makes it easier for old guard supposedly-well-intentioned liberals to paint you as intolerant bigots. While the comments about Barcroft apartments in this thread weren't horrible---I have little patience from reading years of this type of rhetoric.

For the record, our family uses one of the neighborhood schools with lower test scores and we are extremely happy with our children's academic achievements and progress and school community. We do believe in greater socioeconomic integration for the sake of all students. We are able to give our children additional resources and enrichment opportunities outside of school. While our school does a fantastic job with many of its students and families, the lack of additional resources from having more families with cultural and economic capital to share is a disservice to some of the more economically disadvantaged kids.

Well for starters don’t refer to a longstanding complex that

And for the record---differentiation and challenging more advanced kids is not an issue in our experience at our school (because this always comes up).

It's great to want change and not to want to have huge pockets of poverty. Let's just make sure we're addressing the systemic issues and not sounding like we're blaming the victims. When you do that it's off-putting and harder to get people on your side.

What phraseology would you suggest people use so that we can discuss these issues? Because it has been my experience, as a parent in one of these schools, that the entire topic is off-limits because someone might be offended. no matter how thoughtfully or respectfully one tries to be, someone puts a stop to it on behalf of someone else they presume will be offended. But we have to be able to discuss the issues of segregation, resources, needs, and impacts on education. So please provide some advice as to how that can be done without someone somewhere sometime somehow taking some kind of offense.



Well for starters don’t refer to a large complex that thousands of families call home as an “alabatross.” Don’t demean communities or belittle people regardless of your intent. Point to the numerous well-researched studies that demonstrate that economically-integrated schools are better for everyone. And recognize the fact that historically minorities and disadvantaged communities have had to bear most of the inconvenience and make sacrifices in the name of integration. Don't approach this from a position of privilege intimating that wealthier families have a right to be in schools and that poor students and English language learners bring a school down. Start from a place of shared goals (better resources and educational outcomes for all) and go from there. This is like politics, communications and coalition building 101. Also maybe try to engage directly with communities you want to influence and listen instead of approaching these issues from an us vs. them perspective.

Yeah, OK. So what do you recommend for the people who already do all taht? Do they have to start every sentence with all that preamble? Can they only point to studies and never speak specifically of any issue or school in Arlington? And what abut all those people who find offense, misinterpret, twist words, etc. even when the person has NOT committed any of the violations you cite? And it would be really helpful to explain how to not demean communities or belittle people even when their intention is already not to do so. If it wasn't there intent, then they already used words and phrases they did not think would be offensive. It's that statement that illustrates the point that it is essentially impossible to have a legitimate, respectful conversation because no matter what someone says or how they say it, even when they are well-intentioned, they are apparently offensive.

You and people who share your perspectives on this need to come halfway, too. Stop finding offense in absolutely everyting. But, yes, most comments and commenters on DCUM are rude, thoughtless, and un-informed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forget trying. No one can talk about economic segregation in this county without rousing the nutty VOICE lobby that will show up in matching T shirts and call you a racist. Even though what you want is for ARlington to stop segregating its poor. They’ll say—like this person on this thread—that you are calling poor immigrants stupid when it couldn’t be further from the truth. You get no credit for trying to help—even if you send your kids to school and volunteer everyday. Leave Randolph & Barcroft to the poor and the nasty, mindless liberal VOICE segregation advocates who manipulate them. You’ve been forewarned.

The County Board has been building a ghetto. That's a harsh word, but it's true. They're literally cramming as much AH on top of each other as humanly possible. And the so-called "liberal activists" who see themselves as champions of the oppressed, well ...you're complicit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget trying. No one can talk about economic segregation in this county without rousing the nutty VOICE lobby that will show up in matching T shirts and call you a racist. Even though what you want is for ARlington to stop segregating its poor. They’ll say—like this person on this thread—that you are calling poor immigrants stupid when it couldn’t be further from the truth. You get no credit for trying to help—even if you send your kids to school and volunteer everyday. Leave Randolph & Barcroft to the poor and the nasty, mindless liberal VOICE segregation advocates who manipulate them. You’ve been forewarned.

The County Board has been building a ghetto. That's a harsh word, but it's true. They're literally cramming as much AH on top of each other as humanly possible. And the so-called "liberal activists" who see themselves as champions of the oppressed, well ...you're complicit.

Accurate, sadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget trying. No one can talk about economic segregation in this county without rousing the nutty VOICE lobby that will show up in matching T shirts and call you a racist. Even though what you want is for ARlington to stop segregating its poor. They’ll say—like this person on this thread—that you are calling poor immigrants stupid when it couldn’t be further from the truth. You get no credit for trying to help—even if you send your kids to school and volunteer everyday. Leave Randolph & Barcroft to the poor and the nasty, mindless liberal VOICE segregation advocates who manipulate them. You’ve been forewarned.

The County Board has been building a ghetto. That's a harsh word, but it's true. They're literally cramming as much AH on top of each other as humanly possible. And the so-called "liberal activists" who see themselves as champions of the oppressed, well ...you're complicit.

Accurate, sadly.

The thing is, AH is not really an ideological issue as much as it is now a professional concern. There are lots of people whose jobs consist of planning and building and managing AH, before during and after construction. The tenants are temporary; but the industry is now permanent and professionalized. It's fully integrated with the county board and it's become the primary way in which developers influence CB decision making. Questioning the "win-win" logic of the political arrangement gets one attacked as racist or hard-hearted, but it's mostly about threatening white collar people's professional and political
interests.

[Anonymous]

Which is why the affordable housing developers were all present and nervous with the master plan was voted on a couple years ago. I was there. I literally heard a sigh of relief.

[Anonymous]

No good answers. Barcroft apts means you can’t have integrated schools. Too many units. No way to fix it.

[Anonymous]

Barcroft apartments is one of the major contributors to segregated schools, but certainly not the only one. If Columbia Hills is allowed a full build out, it will have just as many people, just vertically positioned. Almost every apartment complex along the western Pike is a MARK or CAF.

I still do not see how moving the two immersion schools could allow local Spanish speaking families much more access to the immersion programs in the first several years. Both Claremont and Key are bursting at the seams and neither the Barcroft nor Carlin Springs site can accommodate most of the existing students and the "new" students. The change over will have to happen year to year with the hope that local Spanish speaking families will apply. But even if they do, the school still has to be balanced, so those families will only have access to half of the seats. The remainder will have to go elsewhere. So, when people report that families at Carlin Springs would be happy with immersion, they may soon realize that they no longer have access to that their old school under any program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Barcroft apartments is one of the major contributors to segregated schools, but certainly not the only one. If Columbia Hills is allowed a full build out, it will have just as many people, just vertically positioned. Almost every apartment complex along the western Pike is a MARK or CAF.

I still do not see how moving the two immersion schools could allow local Spanish speaking families much more access to the immersion programs in the first several years. Both Claremont and Key are bursting at the seams and neither the Barcroft nor Carlin Springs site can accommodate most of the existing students and the "new" students. The change over will have to happen year to year with the hope that local Spanish speaking families will apply. But even if they do, the school still has to be balanced, so those families will only have access to half of the seats. The remainder will have to go elsewhere. So, when people report that families at Carlin Springs would be happy with immersion, they may soon realize that they no longer have access to that their old school under any program.

Hence the point.
Half need to go, they can’t all stay and have a balanced school. It’s the best option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Barcroft apartments is one of the major contributors to segregated schools, but certainly not the only one. If Columbia Hills is allowed a full build out, it will have just as many people, just vertically positioned. Almost every apartment complex along the western Pike is a MARK or CAF.

I still do not see how moving the two immersion schools could allow local Spanish speaking families much more access to the immersion programs in the first several years. Both Claremont and Key are bursting at the seams and neither the Barcroft nor Carlin Springs site can accommodate most of the existing students and the "new" students. The change over will have to happen year to year with the hope that local Spanish speaking families will apply. But even if they do, the school still has to be balanced, so those families will only have access to half of the seats. The remainder will have to go elsewhere. So, when people report that families at Carlin Springs would be happy with immersion, they may soon realize that they no longer have access to that their old school under any program.

Hence the point.
Half need to go, they can’t all stay and have a balanced school. It’s the best option.

But they are technically competing with students from the entire county for the Spanish-dominant slots, so there’s no telling how that will actually work out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Barcroft apartments is one of the major contributors to segregated schools, but certainly not the only one. If Columbia Hills is allowed a full build out, it will have just as many people, just vertically positioned. Almost every apartment complex along the western Pike is a MARK or CAF.

I still do not see how moving the two immersion schools could allow local Spanish speaking families much more access to the immersion programs in the first several years. Both Claremont and Key are bursting at the seams and neither the Barcroft nor Carlin Springs site can accommodate most of the existing students and the "new" students. The change over will have to happen year to year with the hope that local Spanish speaking families will apply. But even if they do, the school still has to be balanced, so those families will only have access to half of the seats. The remainder will have to go elsewhere. So, when people report that families at Carlin Springs would be happy with immersion, they may soon realize that they no longer have access to that their old school under any program.

Hence the point.
Half need to go, they can’t all stay and have a balanced school. It’s the best option.

But they are technically competing with students from the entire county for the Spanish-dominant slots, so there’s no telling how that will actually work out.

Yep. It sucks. But it sucks less than doing nothing.