229 Teachers RIFed, see DC Wire for full story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, the DCPS my children attend is worse for Rhee.

But what would I know, I'm just a parent. Ignorant, uninvolved, on crack, lots of baby daddies, blah, blah, blah.

Who said that? No need to wonder where your prejudice lies.

[Anonymous]

So what kinds of positions have your kids' schools lost? I know our school had to participate in the RIF but haven't yet heard who was cut. Was there a general effort to spare classroom teachers to minimize disruption?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is denying that the DC system has some poor educators. What is really at stake here, is the removal of EXCELLENT educators from the classroom, many of whom where not even observed this year. In a system that appears to have so few check and balances, nobody is safe -even 21:44.

But right now all you have is an anecdote about one excellent teacher. Let's face it, even the "best" DC public schools have plenty of mediocre-to-terrible teachers who were not riffed yesterday. I would find it very hard to believe that there were really that many gifted teachers who were subject to the RIF. All the complaining about Rhee is fascinating. The schools were terrible before she got here, we went through a revolving door of Superintendents who couldn't stand to deal with the entrenched system, and now we have someone who will - at least - make the effort to revitalize and revamp the schools. I'm willing to let her keep doing what she's doing for now. The schools are certainly not worse than they were, and most seem to be better. I think many people have short memories about the dangerous facilities, inability to get books and supplies, crazy registration process, etc. Things have improved in just a short 2-year period. I hope that Rhee sticks at it longer,

Would you apply the same logic to a missile attack? Just bomb them and as long as we get some of the bad guys, that's ok? Pretty appalling way to run a system (that as you seem to imply) isn't currently over flowing with quality educators!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is denying that the DC system has some poor educators. What is really at stake here, is the removal of EXCELLENT educators from the classroom, many of whom where not even observed this year. In a system that appears to have so few check and balances, nobody is safe -even 21:44.

But right now all you have is an anecdote about one excellent teacher. Let's face it, even the "best" DC public schools have plenty of mediocre-to-terrible teachers who were not riffed yesterday. I would find it very hard to believe that there were really that many gifted teachers who were subject to the RIF. All the complaining about Rhee is fascinating. The schools were terrible before she got here, we went through a revolving door of Superintendents who couldn't stand to deal with the entrenched system, and now we have someone who will - at least - make the effort to revitalize and revamp the schools. I'm willing to let her keep doing what she's doing for now. The schools are certainly not worse than they were, and most seem to be better. I think many people have short memories about the dangerous facilities, inability to get books and supplies, crazy registration process, etc. Things have improved in just a short 2-year period. I hope that Rhee sticks at it longer,

Would you apply the same logic to a missile attack? Just bomb them and as long as we get some of the bad guys, that's ok? Pretty appalling way to run a system (that as you seem to imply) isn't currently over flowing with quality educators!

No because a missile attack no way equates to the firing of teachers. Most schools lost only one teacher. And you bring up missile attacks? Come on now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is denying that the DC system has some poor educators. What is really at stake here, is the removal of EXCELLENT educators from the classroom, many of whom where not even observed this year. In a system that appears to have so few check and balances, nobody is safe -even 21:44.

But right now all you have is an anecdote about one excellent teacher. Let's face it, even the "best" DC public schools have plenty of mediocre-to-terrible teachers who were not riffed yesterday. I would find it very hard to believe that there were really that many gifted teachers who were subject to the RIF. All the complaining about Rhee is fascinating. The schools were terrible before she got here, we went through a revolving door of Superintendents who couldn't stand to deal with the entrenched system, and now we have someone who will - at least - make the effort to revitalize and revamp the schools. I'm willing to let her keep doing what she's doing for now. The schools are certainly not worse than they were, and most seem to be better. I think many people have short memories about the dangerous facilities, inability to get books and supplies, crazy registration process, etc. Things have improved in just a short 2-year period. I hope that Rhee sticks at it longer,

Some people used to find it "very hard to believe" that the earth wasn't flat. Others found it "very hard to believe" that leeching wasn't the best treatment for disease. Still more found it "very hard to believe" that the earth didn't revolve around the sun instead of vice versa.

Do you have any empirical data for your very entrenched beliefs or are you the sort that is easily swayed without it? (Baaaaaahhh)

It's very easy for you to "let her keep doing what she's doing for now" - you are not a dedicated and highly-rated employee (who just lost her job without a fair evaluation). Furthermore your child's education obviously wasn't affected or you wouldn't be so cavalier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While it's very sad to hear some of these personal stories of seemingly great teachers who got RIFed quite unjustly, I wanted to share that it is not the case for all schools. At my school (I am a DCPS teacher) we lost one teacher who definitely NEEDED TO GO. This person was a "veteran" who had bounced around from school to school for years, basically avoiding the lengthy 90 day plan for firing by being relocated/pushed off on other schools. This person was mean to children, mean to staff, did little visible work, had constant parent complaints, and was not emotionally stable. It took less than a month at our school for everyone to realize this, but by then it's already very hard to just let someone go as you would in a business model, like a PP suggested, due to the complicated and lengthy method for removing a poor teacher. So, while I certainly sympathize with those who were doing everything right and still got fired, I do know that there are also schools that are breathing a sigh of relief (like mine).

she will be back with backpay and attorney fees to boot. you can not do a reduction in force for performance. reduction in force is last in-first out (lifo). if people would simply take the time and do the requisite paperwork, however cumbersome, this unfit employee you describe could be properly terminated with cause. but that's too much like right.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
No because a missile attack no way equates to the firing of teachers. Most schools lost only one teacher. And you bring up missile attacks? Come on now.

It may well have seemed like a missile attack to those who got dismissed. But, I'm curious, just what margin of error in these firings would you find acceptable? Based on the post from the riff'd teacher in this thread, it seems that there was at least one mistake. How many more would you still find acceptable? Two hundred, twenty-nine teachers were let go. If one hundred, fifteen were good teachers, would you still support Rhee's move? What if the number was higher or lower. Just how many good teachers need to be lost before the collateral damage would be too high for you? For me, that number is very low.

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to figure out how to manage the realities in a way that will benefit kids," she told The Washington Post. "As we are having to downsize staff, are we [looking at] people who add the least value? Absolutely."

Missile strikes aside, what is at stake is the validity of this statement made by the Chancellor last week. I've met as many incompetent administrators in the system as teachers, it's the administrators who made the selections on who was to be riffed. It is arguable that many were not capable of carrying out the chancellor's orders properly, chose not to spend the time evaluating staff, or just made up their own rules all together.

I urge you to be less complacent about your views until the facts emerge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While it's very sad to hear some of these personal stories of seemingly great teachers who got RIFed quite unjustly, I wanted to share that it is not the case for all schools. At my school (I am a DCPS teacher) we lost one teacher who definitely NEEDED TO GO. This person was a "veteran" who had bounced around from school to school for years, basically avoiding the lengthy 90 day plan for firing by being relocated/pushed off on other schools. This person was mean to children, mean to staff, did little visible work, had constant parent complaints, and was not emotionally stable. It took less than a month at our school for everyone to realize this, but by then it's already very hard to just let someone go as you would in a business model, like a PP suggested, due to the complicated and lengthy method for removing a poor teacher. So, while I certainly sympathize with those who were doing everything right and still got fired, I do know that there are also schools that are breathing a sigh of relief (like mine).

she will be back with backpay and attorney fees to boot. you can not do a reduction in force for performance. reduction in force is last in-first out (lifo). if people would simply take the time and do the requisite paperwork, however cumbersome, this unfit employee you describe could be properly terminated with cause. but that's too much like right.

Agree with this. The termination process is cumbersome and should be simplified -- but it ought to be the preferred approach rather than using RIF.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No because a missile attack no way equates to the firing of teachers. Most schools lost only one teacher. And you bring up missile attacks? Come on now.

It may well have seemed like a missile attack to those who got dismissed. But, I'm curious, just what margin of error in these firings would you find acceptable? Based on the post from the riff'd teacher in this thread, it seems that there was at least one mistake. How many more would you still find acceptable? Two hundred, twenty-nine teachers were let go. If one hundred, fifteen were good teachers, would you still support Rhee's move? What if the number was higher or lower. Just how many good teachers need to be lost before the collateral damage would be too high for you? For me, that number is very low.

My answer to that is at this point there are too many what if's and speculations. Everyone says we don't yet know on what basis the teachers were released, so we can't assume it was for poor performance. So how can so many conclusions still be drawn (all bad, I might add) without that information? No one wants great teachers to be fired, but I seriously doubt there's a single teacher out there that could give an impartial opinion as to their performance and how great of a teacher they are.

[jsteele]

Rhee will have a chance to explain her side of the RIF controversy on NBC 4 tonight:

DC SCHOOL FALLOUT
There's more fallout today over the DC School chief's decision to fire 200some teachers last week. Yesterday, we heard from students about disruptions in their schedule and laid off teachers about how the moves affect their lives. Today, we're expecting to hear from the chancellor ... can she explain what so many don't understand? More tonight on News4 at 5pm.

[Anonymous]

Ok- I agree that it would be hard for a teacher to objectively rate his/her performance. However, what can not be disputed is that I and other Riffed teachers in my school were never evaluated. Nobody observed us this school year!

[Anonymous]

to 14:45:

Were you evaluated last year? What has been the teacher evaluation process since the beginning of Rhee's tenure at DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I was evaluated last year. I received 'exceeds expectations,' the highest rating.

[Anonymous]

I don't trust the people actually making the decisions, and Rhee, I am sure, didn't decide on each individual person Riffed. How can an administrator observe someone for 5 mins and make a decision? I'd like proof the RIFs weren't political on the part of the administrator making the recommendation.