Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking, but I really don't understand why so many parents prioritize language immersion. I fell prey to this myself and was crushed when we didn't get our top pick in the lottery. However, now that i know my child better, I'm fairly certain DC would have struggled in a dual language environment. And as a result, we would have struggled as a family to support DC.

Are there academic studies that show immersion is really better? Or is this this just the current parent obsession?

We had the option of a language immersion or English track and we chose the English track and it was the right decision. We were more interested in the kids learning how to read and write well in English and be able to learn math and science in English. The foreign language track can be another obstacle for some kids.

Good for you. Language immersion programs are faddish. They come at the expense of learning English. If an American family has no real connection to to the culture or language, and the language isn't Spanish, the likelihood that the kid will still speak the language as teenagers, let alone adults, isn't high. New research indicates that the famous "cognitive boost" bilingual adults enjoy is pretty much BS.

But almost all the bilingual programs are Spanish here. I imagine many in French at Stokes have a familial connection to French. So you're really just talking about Sela and Yu Ying.

That said, I do think it's important to have a desire to really HAVE your child speak a second language, as your priority, not any of the "brain boosts" or whatnot. It's not a minor thing that just kind of makes the school better, abstractly. I wish those enrolling at bilingual schools all felt strongly about the language itself, and the accompanying culture, and weren't just applying because of the rankings (top level Tier 1's). I think that is pretty clearly the case with a few families.

One of DCUM's famous mind readers of people doing something she doesn't like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking, but I really don't understand why so many parents prioritize language immersion. I fell prey to this myself and was crushed when we didn't get our top pick in the lottery. However, now that i know my child better, I'm fairly certain DC would have struggled in a dual language environment. And as a result, we would have struggled as a family to support DC.

Are there academic studies that show immersion is really better? Or is this this just the current parent obsession?

We had the option of a language immersion or English track and we chose the English track and it was the right decision. We were more interested in the kids learning how to read and write well in English and be able to learn math and science in English. The foreign language track can be another obstacle for some kids.

Good for you. Language immersion programs are faddish. They come at the expense of learning English. If an American family has no real connection to to the culture or language, and the language isn't Spanish, the likelihood that the kid will still speak the language as teenagers, let alone adults, isn't high. New research indicates that the famous "cognitive boost" bilingual adults enjoy is pretty much BS.

Here is an article from 12/2017 summarizing what's currently known from research about the language immersion schooling models widely implemented in the US in 2017. http://carla.umn.edu/immersion/documents/ImmersionResearch_TaraFortune.html

Regarding concerns that these programs come at the cost of learning English:

Initial concerns about the possible detriment to English language and literacy development were eventually laid to rest. English-proficient immersion students who achieved relatively high levels of second-language proficiency also acquired higher levels of English language skills and metalinguistic awareness—that is, the ability to think about how various parts of a language function. Researchers posit that metalinguistic skills positively impact learning to read in alphabetic languages, because it facilitates the development of critical literacy sub-skills such as phonological awareness and knowledge of letter-sound correspondences for word decoding.

Regarding the "cognitive boost" bilingual adults enjoy:

There's a well-established positive relationship between basic thinking skills and being a fully proficient bilingual who maintains regular use of both languages. Fully proficient bilinguals outperform monolinguals in the areas of divergent thinking, pattern recognition, and problem solving.

The important question is whether immersion education provides a similar boost:

While much evidence supports the benefits associated with full and active bilingualism, the relationship between language immersion education and long-term cognitive benefits is as yet less well-understood. Some research does indicate greater cognitive flexibility and better nonverbal problem-solving abilities among English-proficient language immersion students.

Decades ago, Dr. Jim Cummins cautioned about the need for a certain threshold level of second language proficiency before cognitive skills might be positively impacted. Accordingly, children who develop "partial bilingualism" in a second language may or may not experience cognitive benefits. While some studies report positive cognitive effects for partial or emerging bilinguals, Dr. Ellen Bialystok concurs that it is bilingual children with a more balanced and competent mastery of both languages who will predictably exhibit the positive cognitive consequences of bilingualism.

So the bottom line for me is that being a fully multi-lingual adult is great. It's not clear that enrolling your kid in an immersion program without substantial support at home just to get a cognitive boost is a good use of time or effort for adults or for the kid. As a family that speaks Spanish, it's great for us that our kid was able to do Spanish immersion. As a Hebrew speaker who hasn't used the language since the 90s when I lived in Israel, it's not clear to me, for example, what benefit my kid would get from attending Sela, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking, but I really don't understand why so many parents prioritize language immersion. I fell prey to this myself and was crushed when we didn't get our top pick in the lottery. However, now that i know my child better, I'm fairly certain DC would have struggled in a dual language environment. And as a result, we would have struggled as a family to support DC.

Are there academic studies that show immersion is really better? Or is this this just the current parent obsession?

We had the option of a language immersion or English track and we chose the English track and it was the right decision. We were more interested in the kids learning how to read and write well in English and be able to learn math and science in English. The foreign language track can be another obstacle for some kids.

Good for you. Language immersion programs are faddish. They come at the expense of learning English. If an American family has no real connection to to the culture or language, and the language isn't Spanish, the likelihood that the kid will still speak the language as teenagers, let alone adults, isn't high. New research indicates that the famous "cognitive boost" bilingual adults enjoy is pretty much BS.

No, based on looking at people's lists. They are all very similar. Not all those families could care that much about Spanish, they just list them up top based on perceived HRCS status.

But almost all the bilingual programs are Spanish here. I imagine many in French at Stokes have a familial connection to French. So you're really just talking about Sela and Yu Ying.

That said, I do think it's important to have a desire to really HAVE your child speak a second language, as your priority, not any of the "brain boosts" or whatnot. It's not a minor thing that just kind of makes the school better, abstractly. I wish those enrolling at bilingual schools all felt strongly about the language itself, and the accompanying culture, and weren't just applying because of the rankings (top level Tier 1's). I think that is pretty clearly the case with a few families.

One of DCUM's famous mind readers of people doing something she doesn't like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking, but I really don't understand why so many parents prioritize language immersion. I fell prey to this myself and was crushed when we didn't get our top pick in the lottery. However, now that i know my child better, I'm fairly certain DC would have struggled in a dual language environment. And as a result, we would have struggled as a family to support DC.

Are there academic studies that show immersion is really better? Or is this this just the current parent obsession?

We had the option of a language immersion or English track and we chose the English track and it was the right decision. We were more interested in the kids learning how to read and write well in English and be able to learn math and science in English. The foreign language track can be another obstacle for some kids.

Good for you. Language immersion programs are faddish. They come at the expense of learning English. If an American family has no real connection to to the culture or language, and the language isn't Spanish, the likelihood that the kid will still speak the language as teenagers, let alone adults, isn't high. New research indicates that the famous "cognitive boost" bilingual adults enjoy is pretty much BS.

No, based on looking at people's lists. They are all very similar. Not all those families could care that much about Spanish, they just list them up top based on perceived HRCS status.

But almost all the bilingual programs are Spanish here. I imagine many in French at Stokes have a familial connection to French. So you're really just talking about Sela and Yu Ying.

That said, I do think it's important to have a desire to really HAVE your child speak a second language, as your priority, not any of the "brain boosts" or whatnot. It's not a minor thing that just kind of makes the school better, abstractly. I wish those enrolling at bilingual schools all felt strongly about the language itself, and the accompanying culture, and weren't just applying because of the rankings (top level Tier 1's). I think that is pretty clearly the case with a few families.

One of DCUM's famous mind readers of people doing something she doesn't like.

Sorry down here:
No, based on looking at people's lists. They are all very similar. Not all those families could care that much about Spanish, they just list them up top based on perceived HRCS status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking, but I really don't understand why so many parents prioritize language immersion. I fell prey to this myself and was crushed when we didn't get our top pick in the lottery. However, now that i know my child better, I'm fairly certain DC would have struggled in a dual language environment. And as a result, we would have struggled as a family to support DC.

Are there academic studies that show immersion is really better? Or is this this just the current parent obsession?

We had the option of a language immersion or English track and we chose the English track and it was the right decision. We were more interested in the kids learning how to read and write well in English and be able to learn math and science in English. The foreign language track can be another obstacle for some kids.

Good for you. Language immersion programs are faddish. They come at the expense of learning English. If an American family has no real connection to to the culture or language, and the language isn't Spanish, the likelihood that the kid will still speak the language as teenagers, let alone adults, isn't high. New research indicates that the famous "cognitive boost" bilingual adults enjoy is pretty much BS.

But almost all the bilingual programs are Spanish here. I imagine many in French at Stokes have a familial connection to French. So you're really just talking about Sela and Yu Ying.

That said, I do think it's important to have a desire to really HAVE your child speak a second language, as your priority, not any of the "brain boosts" or whatnot. It's not a minor thing that just kind of makes the school better, abstractly. I wish those enrolling at bilingual schools all felt strongly about the language itself, and the accompanying culture, and weren't just applying because of the rankings (top level Tier 1's). I think that is pretty clearly the case with a few families.

The problem is that there aren't enough good-quality schools in DC. If there were, then parents who want language immersion could choose a good school that has language immersion, and parents who don't could choose a good school without language immersion. But as-is, there are so few good schools that you have to get lucky to get into any of them.

[Anonymous]

I can understand this pp.

[Anonymous]

For anyone interested in an academic discussion, there will be a presentation tomorrow entitled “The Benefits of Bilingual Education” at the French International School. The speaker is a McGill professor who studies this topic. The presentation will be in English.

https://www.rochambeau.org/pagecalpop.cfm?p=1&bID=209&verbose=28873

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For anyone interested in an academic discussion, there will be a presentation tomorrow entitled “The Benefits of Bilingual Education” at the French International School. The speaker is a McGill professor who studies this topic. The presentation will be in English.

https://www.rochambeau.org/pagecalpop.cfm?p=1&bID=209&verbose=28873

[Anonymous]

Why is it funny if someone points out it will be in English given it is given by a Canadian professor at a French school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it funny if someone points out it will be in English given it is given by a Canadian professor at a French school?

I'm sure it will be complete unbiased.

[Anonymous]

For those of us who speak a second language, I think it's a no-brainer. I can see the benefits to my own brain (and understanding of my first language) on a daily basis, more so when I was a student of that language every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it funny if someone points out it will be in English given it is given by a Canadian professor at a French school?

Because Americans don't know French because we don't value dual language education, so why wouldn't it be in English?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it funny if someone points out it will be in English given it is given by a Canadian professor at a French school?

Because Americans don't know French because we don't value dual language education, so why wouldn't it be in English?

I’m the PP who posted the link to the bilingual talk. Most families at the school speak French—either one or both parents typically are French speakers. For those that are not fluent (c’est moi), some events are held in English, since almost all families also speak English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.

Capital Hill is fine, but there's nothing after ES. Upper NW is awful, though. If all you care about is good schools instead of living in the city, then might as well move to the suburbs, which are truly good. Instead, you have the worst of both worlds.

Immersion is a draw for a certain type of family that has high expectations, but is also open and worldly, in a way that those who prefer Tenleytown are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.

Capital Hill is fine, but there's nothing after ES. Upper NW is awful, though. If all you care about is good schools instead of living in the city, then might as well move to the suburbs, which are truly good. Instead, you have the worst of both worlds.

Immersion is a draw for a certain type of family that has high expectations, but is also open and worldly, in a way that those who prefer Tenleytown are not.

I agree with this, but I’m also tired of try hards who have to keep up with the Joneses and force Immersion on kids who really can’t deal with it. Past PK4, it is a REAL COMMITMENT. Make no mistake.