Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are good and bad reasons, hard to separate because they are generally true to some extent regardless of a given parent's actual weighing of factors and motivations.

* Bilingual education as more than normal elementary education. When someone asks if you want a better package as an option do you say no?
* Valuing cosmopolitan internationalism - many in DC are educated migrants or immigrants who view themselves as separate from monolingual whitebread America.
* The clear fact that almost anyone can learn a second language if it's started very early, like early elementary school, but almost no one can gain fluency without effort if started too late, e.g., during high school. And the typical American course of behavior is to start language courses at about 14, spend several years on it, and fail to achieve long-term useful language ability despite everything.

Yucky factors:
* there is a stereotype that children of Hispanic immigrant families are compliant and safe for upper class children to be with, contrasting this with children of DC's black dysfunction, who are perceived to put DCUM children at risk.
* language-based programs because of their specialization limit entry. From the beginning they are only for those who choose them - no one goes there by default, which cuts down on lazy and uninvolved parents.
* They cause the children in these programs to cohort together, meaning the pool of children mixing with DCUM children to be limited in absolute numbers and programmatically.
* The programs do not allow entry for children who have not been in these programs in the past and they do not allow entry at all after cutoff grades - the cohorts can really only get smaller. Your children are thus at decreased risk of being joined by children who have bounced around from school to school (the "churn" that happens in DC schools), e.g., no one expelled by a charter for biting their classmates goes into a bilingual program after winter break if the program is full. The general education classroom in their home DCPS for their grade gets that kid. No homeless third grader is likely to join your kid's bilingual class.
* It allows access to specialized schooling channels outside the DCPS system, e.g., the DCI secondary schools, based on a principle that is not facially based on distaste for the core longstanding population of gentrifying parts of DC - black families with poor educational and career outcomes and trauma in their lives which they are transmitting on to children with whom your DCUM child would be placed in school. Instead of having to say, negatively, that you are against having your child next to someone you think will act out and fail tests, you can then say that you want your child to be in a unique program of particular positive value to your family. And the results will effectively be the same.


A lot of truth here. Many upper middle class people will only say the "yucky" things to themselves, but you can hear more palatable versions publicly if you listen for them.

-- upper middle class parent at an immersion school who doesn't want to admit all those things about myself, but can be honest that most of them have crossed my mind. and who has seen friend groups clearly stratify by language, race, economics. Still very happy to have my kid in a diverse school that works really hard to help the poorer kids. Alternatives in DC are pretty much either: school with 85-95% kids living in poverty, or move WOTP and get much less racial, language and economic diversity.


Often these thoughts are wrongly assigned to “racist, white, UMC “ parents strictly, when in fact UMC and even middle class back parents share the sentiments. Everyone wants their child to be around “their ilk”. And what that means varies wildly! I
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's how you avoid the stupid, unmotivated kids in the general program.


+1

Because it's the only way to go to a "good" elementary school in DC.


Really! So the kids at WOTP elementaries are stupid and unmotivated, and their schools are not good. Ok...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's how you avoid the stupid, unmotivated kids in the general program.


+1

Because it's the only way to go to a "good" elementary school in DC.


Really! So the kids at WOTP elementaries are stupid and unmotivated, and their schools are not good. Ok...


Both posters are clearly making fun of this mindset. Sometimes I think this is the very first website someone is visiting on their very first day on the internet with how little they understand.
Anonymous
We accidentally ended up at a Spanish Immersion day care when our initial day care closed on our way back from visiting family over Christmas. We didn't seek out a second language but our kiddo was really happy at his daycare, so we stuck with it. Made sense to at least try to keep up his Spanish if we could through the lottery, and now both kids are at LAMB. I envy my kids that they have this whole set of knowledge that I struggle to gain as a grown up.


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's how you avoid the stupid, unmotivated kids in the general program.


+1

Because it's the only way to go to a "good" elementary school in DC.


Really! So the kids at WOTP elementaries are stupid and unmotivated, and their schools are not good. Ok...


Both posters are clearly making fun of this mindset. Sometimes I think this is the very first website someone is visiting on their very first day on the internet with how little they understand.


Well, good for them if they are, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were serious.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.


OP here, and I agree that parents, consciously of not, use the immersion screen to narrow down to school with "people like them." You start with this giant list of of schools and you have to make sense of it somehow.

I just find it interesting that now that my family has settled at our school, all the things I thought were so important really weren't that important. And the things I didn't consider have turned out to be way more important than I thought. But when I try to share these insights with others going through the process, it falls on deaf ears. Maybe someone tried to share wisdom with me when I was going through it and I didn't hear it either.

I guess in the end, at this time of year, I'm struck by all the hand wringing. School choice is in many ways a burden and creates endless opportunities for parents to feel like they aren't doing the best for their kids.



Maybe this warrants a new thread, but really interested in what you'd list off? Please do share - just for those newbies who might listen...

And, I disagree re immersion "screen" - our school has quite a vibe of Latin culture which isn't "like us" and why I had chosen it. I really hope it's not why some others did. I just think these schools are some of the top schools, and offer a really attractive extra benefit.

I'd now say the learning of the second language is just huge, and on my list of those things I thought were important, and have turned out to indeed be important.
Anonymous
We did not. We are a family of two immigrants who spoke our native languages with our children since birth, so they already have two languages in addition to English. We did not want to add another language we could not support at home.

We prioritized overall quality of academics and STEM.
Anonymous
We would've, but we didn't get into any.
Now we have to do languages and STEM both. Would've been nice not to worry about languages.
Nobody mentioned this, but US doesn't really have a culture of learning languages. Good teachers are hard to find and foreign languages at school start very late. These two things alone would make me choose immersion.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:That's how you avoid the stupid, unmotivated kids in the general program.


Precisely this. It’s a barrier to screen for less engaged (generally less affluent or aspiring) families
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.


We are inbounds to an excellent and desireable school on Capitol Hill (pricey too!) and we send our kid to an immersion school. We do so because we speak the target language at home and want our children to be biliterate.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.


We are inbounds to an excellent and desireable school on Capitol Hill (pricey too!) and we send our kid to an immersion school. We do so because we speak the target language at home and want our children to be biliterate.


Forgot to mention that people actually WANT their kid to learn a new language. Not just to be in a desirable school.
Anonymous
Do any of the DC public schools have good STEM programs?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this warrants a new thread, but really interested in what you'd list off? Please do share - just for those newbies who might listen...

And, I disagree re immersion "screen" - our school has quite a vibe of Latin culture which isn't "like us" and why I had chosen it. I really hope it's not why some others did. I just think these schools are some of the top schools, and offer a really attractive extra benefit.

I'd now say the learning of the second language is just huge, and on my list of those things I thought were important, and have turned out to indeed be important.


Yeah, me too. We chose Spanish immersion because we wanted DS to speak Spanish well like his (non-Latino) parents. It's fun to travel to Spanish speaking countries and shift from speaking English as a family to speaking Spanish, and people really seem to appreciate it -- we meet a lot more people and interact with them when they hear us speaking Spanish to each other. Also, here in DC we can socialize in Spanish-speaking settings, which is nice and broadens our social circle. Having traveled for spring break this year to a country where we don't speak more than a smattering of the local language, we all appreciate it even more --- I think we underestimated the difference it makes to how much we enjoy our trips to Spanish speaking countries.
Anonymous
It's the only thing we cannot teach by ourselves.
Anonymous
I chose it because I was language major in college but learning the language was a constant struggle because I started later.

But now that my kids are older I do think that I really had no idea what I was getting into. Neither of my kids were those kids who just taught themselves to read. we had to spend a lot of time on sight words and reading with them - and then had to double it for two languages. But I will say it is pretty amazing to watch how easily they converse in their other language now. So I guess it is worth it - but not for the faint of heart and I think you have to really want it!!
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