Saratoga/Key/Lee?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could fcps make Lee the esol magnet for the entire county? That would make more sense and be less disruptive than making it the only IB school for that area.

Then it would definitely lose accreditation, which is the entire point of the exercise into looking for other options. FWIW, there was also an option of re-opening the Marshall site or moving the older ESOL program to a different school that could take the performance hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could fcps make Lee the esol magnet for the entire county? That would make more sense and be less disruptive than making it the only IB school for that area.

Then it would definitely lose accreditation, which is the entire point of the exercise into looking for other options. FWIW, there was also an option of re-opening the Marshall site or moving the older ESOL program to a different school that could take the performance hit.

Why don't they move that program to Bryant High School?

It is already a non traditional high school. 18 to 22 year old non English speakers would have a more appropriate placement there and could also transition easier into trades training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that Lee is an ESOL CSS site for new comers (they did this when they cut ESOL funding and got rid of night schools), particularly those who are older (18-20). Under the VGLA standards, they were exempt from state testing but had to put together a portfolio of learning to show competency. The state did away with this, and based on projections, Lee's performance will tank. Compared to Mount Vernon, the SOL performance wasn't impacted as much by the loss of VGLA and Stuart's ESOL population is actually falling since some older new comers are choosing to go to Lee for services. These schools' ESOL students do not qualify for VGLA in large numbers so their SOL performance is static or minimally impacted.

This is definitely something that is being considered. And what has been the most interesting is that initial projections show that it's definitely possible to execute. There is political drama, though.

I have two issues with this:

1) Why should the schools be punished for being burdened with the older ESOL population (18-20)?

2) What do you mean by saying some of the older newcomers are choosing to go to Lee? I hope you are not saying they get a choice. They should go to the nearest program. I'm going to assume they are just choosing to live in Springfield.

It seems as though the special program that was assigned to Lee may be the problem. What about the ESOL students of typical age?Are they not performing well?

Perhaps the special ESOL program should be moved elsewhere.

Legally, public schools are supposed to offer education past age 18. I think most states cap it at 20 or 21 (otherwise, you'd be kicking out 18 year old seniors, fwiw).

I don't know if these students are getting to go to Lee while living out of zone or whether it became more popular because people in the community learned about it and moved to Springfield (which honestly has more affordable housing than other areas). I don't know if it's a chicken or egg.

The ESOL program was required because the county gutted ESOL funding. This is basically the only way to show it was providing newcomer services/services to low level ESOL students to older learners. From an admin standpoint, I think Lee got it because it had space and was under enrolled and had a lot of students in this bucket. If the county didn't do this, it would be forced to spend millions in litigation (see Prince William County, which went from having one non-compliant ESOL school to having over 50). It's the cheapest choice to be compliant since they got rid of the Marshall learning site/night school.

I failed to explain my first question adequately - it seems asinine to me to score a school such as Lee the same as a school like West Springfield when one school has be designated to host a program such as the special ESOL program. Why would the State do that?

Unless the typical (age 14-17) ESOL students at Lee are also doing poorly, the obvious solution is to reopen the night school at Marshall. By the way, would Marshall be penalized because that special program shares the same building? That is how stupid this entire thing appears to be.

Reopening the night school would be much less disruptive than rearranging all the feeder elementary schools in several pyramids. Rearranging the feeders just buries the ESOL problem in the numbers. And what is the big deal if Lee goes under State oversight? The reason, assuming Lee doesn't have any other subgroups doing poorly, is pretty self-explanatory (large ESOL population).

Of course, I still think some students should be moved from West Springfield to Lee, but that will never happen.

[Anonymous]

They are doing massive construction/expansion on WSHS right now, why would they move kids out of WS at this point? If Lee really does become the IB magnet for the entire eastern and central portions of the county, WSHS will need the capacity to assume some of the kids who would have gone to Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are doing massive construction/expansion on WSHS right now, why would they move kids out of WS at this point? If Lee really does become the IB magnet for the entire eastern and central portions of the county, WSHS will need the capacity to assume some of the kids who would have gone to Lee.

West Springfield, even with the expansion, is projected to be at 105% of capacity in just a few years. Lee on the other hand, will be at 85% of capacity.

I think, despite what the Gatehouse insider says, that the School Board will never be able to pull off closing Lee. There are just too many political hurdles. If it angers some West Springfield parents to think about moving some neighborhoods to Lee with just a simple boundary change, imagine what moving even more of them out would do under the Lee closing scenario (and moving Lee students to that school). And Annandale would have to be involved and that would probably mean moving Lynbrook there because it is geographically the logical choice. So you would move Lynbrook, the second or third poorest school in the entire county, from the third poorest high school to the second poorest high school. And both have very high ESOL populations. That will not help Annandale very much.

Steps that can be done to help Lee:

1) Reopen the Marshall night school (it appears that the special ESOL program is going to cause Lee some accreditation trouble) - or otherwise separate that ESOL program from Lee
2) Return to full AP and drop IB
3) Guarantee AP classes will be taught even with low enrollment (lower student to teacher ratio might entice more parents to keep their students at the school)
4) Counter pupil placement for language - If a bunch of students try to pupil place for Japanese in 9th grade - then offer Japanese. Don't cancel language offerings because of low enrollment
5) Start an AAP center at Key - a number of AAP students currently leave the pyramid (Lake Braddock and Twain) and never return

Big changes like this in the Lee pyramid are the only way to ensure parents that FCPS is serious about fixing Lee. They need to make these changes and make it a big news item.

I also don't think IB is popular enough to fill a school with students. The entire county only produces around 450-475 IB graduates a year. A large number of those come from Robinson and Marshall which are not likely to be closed. Same with South Lakes. So it would be a big gamble to close Lee as a regular school, make it an IB magnet, and then hope students enroll - what if they don't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are doing massive construction/expansion on WSHS right now, why would they move kids out of WS at this point? If Lee really does become the IB magnet for the entire eastern and central portions of the county, WSHS will need the capacity to assume some of the kids who would have gone to Lee.

West Springfield, even with the expansion, is projected to be at 105% of capacity in just a few years. Lee on the other hand, will be at 85% of capacity.

I think, despite what the Gatehouse insider says, that the School Board will never be able to pull off closing Lee. There are just too many political hurdles. If it angers some West Springfield parents to think about moving some neighborhoods to Lee with just a simple boundary change, imagine what moving even more of them out would do under the Lee closing scenario (and moving Lee students to that school). And Annandale would have to be involved and that would probably mean moving Lynbrook there because it is geographically the logical choice. So you would move Lynbrook, the second or third poorest school in the entire county, from the third poorest high school to the second poorest high school. And both have very high ESOL populations. That will not help Annandale very much.

Steps that can be done to help Lee:

1) Reopen the Marshall night school (it appears that the special ESOL program is going to cause Lee some accreditation trouble) - or otherwise separate that ESOL program from Lee
2) Return to full AP and drop IB
3) Guarantee AP classes will be taught even with low enrollment (lower student to teacher ratio might entice more parents to keep their students at the school)
4) Counter pupil placement for language - If a bunch of students try to pupil place for Japanese in 9th grade - then offer Japanese. Don't cancel language offerings because of low enrollment
5) Start an AAP center at Key - a number of AAP students currently leave the pyramid (Lake Braddock and Twain) and never return

Big changes like this in the Lee pyramid are the only way to ensure parents that FCPS is serious about fixing Lee. They need to make these changes and make it a big news item.

I also don't think IB is popular enough to fill a school with students. The entire county only produces around 450-475 IB graduates a year. A large number of those come from Robinson and Marshall which are not likely to be closed. Same with South Lakes. So it would be a big gamble to close Lee as a regular school, make it an IB magnet, and then hope students enroll - what if they don't?

Moving part of WS to Lee and dropping IB are critical.

[Anonymous]

Saw this in another thread, but it reminds me of FCPS and IB:

Regina from Mean Girls: "Stop trying to make fetch happen!"

Me to FCPS: "Stop trying to make IB happen!"

Certainly in most of the IB school this just isn't working. Quit already.

[Anonymous]

I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

How long ago did you graduate? I’m guessing at least 5 years? Maybe 10? That makes a huge difference in the validity of your post. There have been big changes in the last few years and not for the better. It’s not the same school it once was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

McLean is about 10% low-income and 45% minority, and one of its feeders is a Title I elementary school in Falls Church. How does that translate into an “utter lack of economic and racial diversity”? Perhaps IB didn’t teach you enough about fact-checking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

McLean is about 10% low-income and 45% minority, and one of its feeders is a Title I elementary school in Falls Church. How does that translate into an “utter lack of economic and racial diversity”? Perhaps IB didn’t teach you enough about fact-checking.

McLean is less than 5% ESOL according to fcps and just under 10% free lunch. It is around 2,5% black and just under 12% hispanic (mostly English speaking, non ESOL students)

To compare McLean and its one title 1 feeder elementary school to Lee is kind of laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

McLean is about 10% low-income and 45% minority, and one of its feeders is a Title I elementary school in Falls Church. How does that translate into an “utter lack of economic and racial diversity”? Perhaps IB didn’t teach you enough about fact-checking.

McLean is less than 5% ESOL according to fcps and just under 10% free lunch. It is around 2,5% black and just under 12% hispanic (mostly English speaking, non ESOL students)

To compare McLean and its one title 1 feeder elementary school to Lee is kind of laughable.

I wasn’t comparing it to Lee. I was disputing PP’s assertion it is utterly lacking in racial or economic diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

This is probably true. A motivated student from a good family can probably do just fine at Lee. But, most parents with the means to do so are not going to roll the dice on a school like Lee if they can buy in the West Springfield pyramid. This creates a vicious cycle at schools like Lee and virtuous cycles at schools like West Springfield. No number of anecdotal stories about Lee is going to convince your typical family that Lee is just as good as West Springfield. IMO, it’s not ideal to have poverty and challenging student populations increasingly concentrated in certain schools - it makes it more difficult to help those challenging student populations and more likely that the non-disadvantaged students in those schools will fall through the cracks. Whether anyone cares about this likely depends on your point of view. If you live in a good school pyramid, you only have the potential to lose in any school restructuring scenario, so you likely oppose any change. If you live in a poorly viewed pyramid, you’re all for restructuring - the reputation of schools in the Lee pyramid are already about as low as they can get, so just potential upside for you. If you’re a neutral school administrator responsible for the entire district, I would think you know something needs to be done, but it’s tough to do so against the backdrop of differing political interests. Easier to do nothing until your hand is forced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never posted to this forum before but I feel pretty strongly about this. I am late to this thread but your child will get a fine education at Key/Lee. I attended both of those schools and received a good education. The IB program challenged me immensely and I learned things through it that I didn't in college. IB is incredibly challenging but I honestly think it prepared me for college more than AP would have. My biggest gripe with IB is that colleges tend to give out less credit for it though but it seems like Lee is offering AP classes which will mitigate that.

Your child can get into and attend UVA/W&M/VA Tech from Lee. There are groups of motivated students at the school who attend these places and even more prestigious schools than UVA. Students from Lee thrive at Lee, attend college and graduate from college every year.

Honestly, the best part about Lee is the true diversity that you experience there. I was friends with people from different races, ethnicities and religions and it has positively impacted the way that I view the world today. I would never have wanted to attend a school like Langley or McLean with the utter lack of economic and racial diversity. I know this sentiment is incredibly unpopular on this board.

Also, it was my Lee education that allowed me to attend an amazing college, graduate in 4 years with less than 6k in debt so I think that attending Lee hasn't hurt me at all.

This is probably true. A motivated student from a good family can probably do just fine at Lee. But, most parents with the means to do so are not going to roll the dice on a school like Lee if they can buy in the West Springfield pyramid. This creates a vicious cycle at schools like Lee and virtuous cycles at schools like West Springfield. No number of anecdotal stories about Lee is going to convince your typical family that Lee is just as good as West Springfield. IMO, it’s not ideal to have poverty and challenging student populations increasingly concentrated in certain schools - it makes it more difficult to help those challenging student populations and more likely that the non-disadvantaged students in those schools will fall through the cracks. Whether anyone cares about this likely depends on your point of view. If you live in a good school pyramid, you only have the potential to lose in any school restructuring scenario, so you likely oppose any change. If you live in a poorly viewed pyramid, you’re all for restructuring - the reputation of schools in the Lee pyramid are already about as low as they can get, so just potential upside for you. If you’re a neutral school administrator responsible for the entire district, I would think you know something needs to be done, but it’s tough to do so against the backdrop of differing political interests. Easier to do nothing until your hand is forced.

Their hands are being forced since Lee teeters on the brink of losing state accreditation. It will be interesting to see how FCPS decision-makers deal with the situation. Doing nothing is not an option.

[Anonymous]

NP considering Lee. When is Lee expected to lose accreditation? And what will it mean for the students who are enrolled there?