Saratoga/Key/Lee?

[Anonymous]

Looking for personal experiences. I know they're not highly ranked, but are they really bad for motivated kids who will be in honors type classes? Is there a decent-sized cohort of academically minded kids?

How easy is it for a new kid to fit in? How are the boys and girls basketball? Girls volleyball? Baseball? Can a new kid make the freshman teams?

[Anonymous]

Motivated students end up at UVA, William and Mary, Virginia Tech, etc. A student this year has a full scholarship to the University of Chicago. I'm sure there are Lee students attending other good schools. Basic answer, if your student is motivated they can do very well. Lots of people will say negative things if Ivy schools aren't well represented, but I find that generally unreasonable. Most FCPS students don't end up at Ivies.

Sports teams are not the best (that is no secret). Enrollment at Lee is the lowest in FCPS high schools which means the talent pool is going to be smaller. If your student is a solid player they will have a good chance of making a team, but there are no guarantees.

[Anonymous]

There’s not really any cohort at Lee that is doing great. SAT scores are usually in the bottom two or three for FCPS, it’s been years since the school has had a National Merit Semifinalist; the school is saddled with the IB program, which gives parents the ability to pupil place their kids to AP schools in the area; and the School Board has granted requests by certain neighborhoods to be redistricted out of Lee to West Springfield.

Of course, every school in FCPS meets certain minimum requirements, and Lee is no exception, but overall it is a neglected school that most people try to avoid. That is why you see threads speculating as to whether the school eventually will be closed or turned into a county-wide IB high school (under a scenario where the other IB schools would revert to AP schools).

[Anonymous]

My personal experience before moving - the biggest issue at Lee was attendance. Sure, some students are motivated but they will know kids who stay home a lot. They start to think it’s normal for kids to miss school when everyone is doing it. We were not there long and needed to move for our jobs.

How old are your children? If they are young there is no guarantee they will be highly motivated and in honors classes despite everything you try as a parent.

[Anonymous]

I have one child at Saratoga and another at Key Middle. They are both doing very well and had the option of attending the Level IV AAP Center but decided not to. We haven’t decided what to do for high school yet. So far, our school experience has been very positive despite the low GS rating. We love the Saratoga neighborhood, good commute, proximity to shopping, VRE, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s not really any cohort at Lee that is doing great. SAT scores are usually in the bottom two or three for FCPS, it’s been years since the school has had a National Merit Semifinalist; the school is saddled with the IB program, which gives parents the ability to pupil place their kids to AP schools in the area; and the School Board has granted requests by certain neighborhoods to be redistricted out of Lee to West Springfield.

Of course, every school in FCPS meets certain minimum requirements, and Lee is no exception, but overall it is a neglected school that most people try to avoid. That is why you see threads speculating as to whether the school eventually will be closed or turned into a county-wide IB high school (under a scenario where the other IB schools would revert to AP schools).

You don't sound like you're speaking with personal experience.

[Anonymous]

OP - you appear to be an education-focused parent. Probably wouldn't be on this site if you weren't. Think about what happens when you and the other people like you flee schools like Lee. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If your student does not attend Lee that shrinks the cohort just a bit more. No doubt that FCPS is responsible for some of the drop in Lee's performance - pupil placements out and boundary changes. I believe the cohort at Lee of high-performing students is still large enough for your student to have peers. Is it really large ? No. In the end your student is an individual and not a cohort. It really depends on how motivated they are as an individual.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to SAT scores since they are just a single number average. They don't even bother to provide any real statistics - like minimum score, maximum score, normal distribution, top 20 scores, etc. They literally provide a single number average for the different ethnic groups - hardly a way to judge how any one person may perform.

Interesting that Great School scores for a number of schools dropped this year. Will people moving to the area now avoid schools like Woodson - which dropped to a 6 on Great Schools. Local residents may still consider it a good school if not a very good school, but will new residents know this (or will their real estate search automatically filter out any school below a 7)? This is how things start to go down hill in a highly mobile area.

Not sure if you currently live here or are looking to move here. I would not use DC Urban Moms as a good source of information. I would talk to families who actually have students at the school. My kids are doing quite well there. Is everything great? Certainly not, but I think you will find issues of one type or another at every FCPS high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - you appear to be an education-focused parent. Probably wouldn't be on this site if you weren't. Think about what happens when you and the other people like you flee schools like Lee. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If your student does not attend Lee that shrinks the cohort just a bit more. No doubt that FCPS is responsible for some of the drop in Lee's performance - pupil placements out and boundary changes. I believe the cohort at Lee of high-performing students is still large enough for your student to have peers. Is it really large ? No. In the end your student is an individual and not a cohort. It really depends on how motivated they are as an individual.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to SAT scores since they are just a single number average. They don't even bother to provide any real statistics - like minimum score, maximum score, normal distribution, top 20 scores, etc. They literally provide a single number average for the different ethnic groups - hardly a way to judge how any one person may perform.

Interesting that Great School scores for a number of schools dropped this year. Will people moving to the area now avoid schools like Woodson - which dropped to a 6 on Great Schools. Local residents may still consider it a good school if not a very good school, but will new residents know this (or will their real estate search automatically filter out any school below a 7)? This is how things start to go down hill in a highly mobile area.

Not sure if you currently live here or are looking to move here. I would not use DC Urban Moms as a good source of information. I would talk to families who actually have students at the school. My kids are doing quite well there. Is everything great? Certainly not, but I think you will find issues of one type or another at every FCPS high school.

It’s a lot to ask a parent to take a gamble on a school like Lee. It should be up to FCPS to take concrete steps to improve the school by moving West Springfield neighborhoods to Lee, getting rid of IB, or adding an Academy program. Until then, people should look for something elsewhere if they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you appear to be an education-focused parent. Probably wouldn't be on this site if you weren't. Think about what happens when you and the other people like you flee schools like Lee. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If your student does not attend Lee that shrinks the cohort just a bit more. No doubt that FCPS is responsible for some of the drop in Lee's performance - pupil placements out and boundary changes. I believe the cohort at Lee of high-performing students is still large enough for your student to have peers. Is it really large ? No. In the end your student is an individual and not a cohort. It really depends on how motivated they are as an individual.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to SAT scores since they are just a single number average. They don't even bother to provide any real statistics - like minimum score, maximum score, normal distribution, top 20 scores, etc. They literally provide a single number average for the different ethnic groups - hardly a way to judge how any one person may perform.

Interesting that Great School scores for a number of schools dropped this year. Will people moving to the area now avoid schools like Woodson - which dropped to a 6 on Great Schools. Local residents may still consider it a good school if not a very good school, but will new residents know this (or will their real estate search automatically filter out any school below a 7)? This is how things start to go down hill in a highly mobile area.

Not sure if you currently live here or are looking to move here. I would not use DC Urban Moms as a good source of information. I would talk to families who actually have students at the school. My kids are doing quite well there. Is everything great? Certainly not, but I think you will find issues of one type or another at every FCPS high school.

It’s a lot to ask a parent to take a gamble on a school like Lee. It should be up to FCPS to take concrete steps to improve the school by moving West Springfield neighborhoods to Lee, getting rid of IB, or adding an Academy program. Until then, people should look for something elsewhere if they can.

I think saying it is a gamble is a bit strong. What is the gamble? If their student is motivated and works hard they will likely get into a good university. If they are not motivated and do not work hard, they won't succeed at any school.

I would like to see them get rid of IB and maybe add a special program like an academy to draw in students, but they are absolutely not going to move any West Springfield students to Lee. These are elected officials who have no will to do that.

[Anonymous]

What's the aversion to IB? It's one of the reasons we are considering it. That and that it's a smaller school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the aversion to IB? It's one of the reasons we are considering it. That and that it's a smaller school.

Fcps put Lee in all of its low performing schools which happen to be clustered together in that part of the county.

They thought it would draw in high performing families to bring up test scores.

What actually happened was that families of high achieving kids used IB as a means of transferring out of zone to the higher performing IB schools.

When this became obvious that this is what is happening, fcps did nothing and kept IB at all of those schools.

As more kids transferred out using the IB loophole, test scores dipped furthur, resulting in fewer people choosing Lee.

It became a vicious cycle, until we are where we are today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the aversion to IB? It's one of the reasons we are considering it. That and that it's a smaller school.

Fcps put Lee in all of its low performing schools which happen to be clustered together in that part of the county.

They thought it would draw in high performing families to bring up test scores.

What actually happened was that families of high achieving kids used IB as a means of transferring out of zone to the higher performing IB schools.

When this became obvious that this is what is happening, fcps did nothing and kept IB at all of those schools.

As more kids transferred out using the IB loophole, test scores dipped furthur, resulting in fewer people choosing Lee.

It became a vicious cycle, until we are where we are today.

And then because IB is now almost exclusively in the lowest performing schools (with the exception of two programs) most of fcps associates IB as a much less desireable prpgram that you want to avoid if you have an academic minded, high performing kid.

The best thing that fcps could do for those lower IB schools is to remove IB, switch to AP, and only offer IB at the two higher performing schools.

[Anonymous]

The IB program lacks flexibility. With the AP program, students can pick and choose AP classes according to their strengths and interests. Their diploma will reflect that they are graduating as an “AP scholar” if they take 3 or 4 AP classes during HS.

A student at an IB school can choose to take a few IB classes, but will not receive the “IB diploma” unless they complete all of the IB course requirements, which are extensive. Most students find that the requirements of the full IB diploma are too stringent and don’t align with their interests. The percentage of students at IB schools who receive the IB diploma is very small.

[Anonymous]

My children have had some very good teachers at Saratoga and Key. If a child is hard-working and has involved parents, they will be just fine. It may be a little harder to find like-minded peers, but they are there. It helps to get your child involved in extracurricular activities like scouts to help them find their tribe.

It may also be easier for a good student to stand out and become a leader in a less-pressured environment. Parents need to consider the individual needs of their children. Some will thrive as a big fish in a small pond and others will crave a larger group of competitive peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The IB program lacks flexibility. With the AP program, students can pick and choose AP classes according to their strengths and interests. Their diploma will reflect that they are graduating as an “AP scholar” if they take 3 or 4 AP classes during HS.

A student at an IB school can choose to take a few IB classes, but will not receive the “IB diploma” unless they complete all of the IB course requirements, which are extensive. Most students find that the requirements of the full IB diploma are too stringent and don’t align with their interests. The percentage of students at IB schools who receive the IB diploma is very small.

It tops out in the low 20s at the “better” IB schools and is somewhere around 5% at Lee. Think about it: roughly 95% of the graduates leave not on track to receive the IB diploma, when the school’s entire curriculum is designed around that program. It is a disservice to students, yet a vocal handful of IB supporters fight to preserve it. As PP mentioned, some likely do so because it enables their kids to transfer to other schools.