No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. And no, no bias or preference. Teachers help students choose the appropriate level courses for the following year based on student's performance and teacher's observations, but parents/students really have the final say.

I have kids in AAP and it delights me to hear of non-AAP kids getting into schools like W&M and UVA.

Out of curiosity why does it delight you to see "regular track" kids ultimately do just as well as the advanced academic kids?

If your kid has been taking the harder courses up until HS it would be natural to want to see that effort pay off - qualifying for/taking/doing well in the tougher classes in HS and getting into the top college as a result of that effort.

It delights me because I hear so many AAP parents (here and IRL) and kids talk so smugly about how advanced they are and how much smarter they are than the "regular" kids. I hear it IRL while having three kids go through AAP in a center school where the AAP kids and the gen ed kids seem to be set up in a "have and have not" system.

I have always known that there are extremely bright kids in gen ed who didn't make the cutoff when they were in second grade. They didn't pursue it in subsequent years because it wasn't important to their families and they didn't feel their child needed it in order to be successful. So it makes me happy to see it when that plays out. There are many paths to success and I've always hated how AAP parents think that being in the program is the only path and place so much importance on it and get such a sense of validation from it, as well, thereby putting that idea in their kids' heads. It's often to the detriment of others if their kid happens to be the braggy, superior type.

Of course, I want to see my own children's effort pay off in all the ways you mentioned. Like you said, it's natural. Wanting great outcomes for non-AAP kids doesn't mean I want to see AAP kids struggle or flounder. I just enjoy seeing another path to success.

"I just enjoy seeing another path to success." Many people agree with this while also disagreeing with these statements from you. "It delights me" and "it's sweet justice". Why would there need to be justice in just seeing another path to success? And why the assumption that AAP kids don't also want other kids to be into academics? I bet in reality many AAP kids are very happy to have more kids finally find academics interesting like they have been since a younger age.

You're combining two posters. I said "it delights me" but I did not say "it's sweet justice."

But why do you feel it's negative to be delighted to see a "regular" kid find the same academic success as one who was labeled "smart" in 2nd grade? I'm not making a dig at the AAP kid, I'm just happy for the gen ed kid. Perhaps I've heard too many smug AAP kids brag to the faces of gen ed kids and it has me jaded. It's gross. My AAP kids don't care what the level of their friends' interest in academics is. It's nothing they consider one way or the other.

+1
This, exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. And no, no bias or preference. Teachers help students choose the appropriate level courses for the following year based on student's performance and teacher's observations, but parents/students really have the final say.

I have kids in AAP and it delights me to hear of non-AAP kids getting into schools like W&M and UVA.

Out of curiosity why does it delight you to see "regular track" kids ultimately do just as well as the advanced academic kids?

If your kid has been taking the harder courses up until HS it would be natural to want to see that effort pay off - qualifying for/taking/doing well in the tougher classes in HS and getting into the top college as a result of that effort.

It delights me because I hear so many AAP parents (here and IRL) and kids talk so smugly about how advanced they are and how much smarter they are than the "regular" kids. I hear it IRL while having three kids go through AAP in a center school where the AAP kids and the gen ed kids seem to be set up in a "have and have not" system.

I have always known that there are extremely bright kids in gen ed who didn't make the cutoff when they were in second grade. They didn't pursue it in subsequent years because it wasn't important to their families and they didn't feel their child needed it in order to be successful. So it makes me happy to see it when that plays out. There are many paths to success and I've always hated how AAP parents think that being in the program is the only path and place so much importance on it and get such a sense of validation from it, as well, thereby putting that idea in their kids' heads. It's often to the detriment of others if their kid happens to be the braggy, superior type.

Of course, I want to see my own children's effort pay off in all the ways you mentioned. Like you said, it's natural. Wanting great outcomes for non-AAP kids doesn't mean I want to see AAP kids struggle or flounder. I just enjoy seeing another path to success.

"I just enjoy seeing another path to success." Many people agree with this while also disagreeing with these statements from you. "It delights me" and "it's sweet justice". Why would there need to be justice in just seeing another path to success? And why the assumption that AAP kids don't also want other kids to be into academics? I bet in reality many AAP kids are very happy to have more kids finally find academics interesting like they have been since a younger age.

Not the PP, but you sound completely out of touch. You actually don't think Gen Ed kids "find academics interesting"?? My kids have been avid readers since kindergarten. Most of what they've learned has been on their own time, from reading books of their own choosing. I can honestly say, I've never met kids more curious about the world in my life - except, of course, for many of their good friends, none of whom were in AAP and all of whom "find academics interesting." At this point (they're teens and in college), they know more than I do in many subjects, especially history and literature.

Because they didn't get a certain score on a certain test on a certain day, they were not in AAP. As another poster said, we didn't find it important enough to pursue appealing and retesting, year after year - especially for a program that's *barely* more in depth than Gen Ed is. We felt they were learning more on their own than they'd ever be taught in a classroom. And we were right. Not being in AAP hasn't held them back one iota; in fact, quite the opposite. They've excelled in AP classes and our oldest is at an excellent university - one that even DCUM snobs rave about.

I hope any younger parents reading this and wringing their hands about AAP will realize it's *just not that important.* It really isn't. It's not some magical program that will change your child's life, especially if you also have kids who are independent, self-taught learners. Any child like that is going to succeed, regardless of a silly label bestowed on him or her in the 3rd grade.

Thank you for your eloquent reply, OP. I agree with everything you posted, and our children's experience is almost identical.

The snobbery and condescension of some PPs towatd Gen Ed students appalling. Gen Ed kids "finally find academics interesting?" Gen Ed kids finally wanting to work hard in school? Finally wanting to challenge themselves academically? I had no idea that AAP parents thought this way.

And do you really remember at graduation time and when college acceptances are out, which students were in AAP 4 YEARS AGO?????

Makes me sick.

+100
It's interesting to see parents of AAP kids react when they realize that ALL kids will be able to take honors and AP classes in high school. Or when they hear that a former Gen Ed kid is going to a really excellent college - which happens all the time. You can almost see the disbelief in their eyes.

I blame FCPS for setting up this ridiculous system of what amounts to nothing more than segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct. And no, no bias or preference. Teachers help students choose the appropriate level courses for the following year based on student's performance and teacher's observations, but parents/students really have the final say.

I have kids in AAP and it delights me to hear of non-AAP kids getting into schools like W&M and UVA.

Out of curiosity why does it delight you to see "regular track" kids ultimately do just as well as the advanced academic kids?

If your kid has been taking the harder courses up until HS it would be natural to want to see that effort pay off - qualifying for/taking/doing well in the tougher classes in HS and getting into the top college as a result of that effort.

It delights me because I hear so many AAP parents (here and IRL) and kids talk so smugly about how advanced they are and how much smarter they are than the "regular" kids. I hear it IRL while having three kids go through AAP in a center school where the AAP kids and the gen ed kids seem to be set up in a "have and have not" system.

I have always known that there are extremely bright kids in gen ed who didn't make the cutoff when they were in second grade. They didn't pursue it in subsequent years because it wasn't important to their families and they didn't feel their child needed it in order to be successful. So it makes me happy to see it when that plays out. There are many paths to success and I've always hated how AAP parents think that being in the program is the only path and place so much importance on it and get such a sense of validation from it, as well, thereby putting that idea in their kids' heads. It's often to the detriment of others if their kid happens to be the braggy, superior type.

Of course, I want to see my own children's effort pay off in all the ways you mentioned. Like you said, it's natural. Wanting great outcomes for non-AAP kids doesn't mean I want to see AAP kids struggle or flounder. I just enjoy seeing another path to success.

"I just enjoy seeing another path to success." Many people agree with this while also disagreeing with these statements from you. "It delights me" and "it's sweet justice". Why would there need to be justice in just seeing another path to success? And why the assumption that AAP kids don't also want other kids to be into academics? I bet in reality many AAP kids are very happy to have more kids finally find academics interesting like they have been since a younger age.

Not the PP, but you sound completely out of touch. You actually don't think Gen Ed kids "find academics interesting"?? My kids have been avid readers since kindergarten. Most of what they've learned has been on their own time, from reading books of their own choosing. I can honestly say, I've never met kids more curious about the world in my life - except, of course, for many of their good friends, none of whom were in AAP and all of whom "find academics interesting." At this point (they're teens and in college), they know more than I do in many subjects, especially history and literature.

Because they didn't get a certain score on a certain test on a certain day, they were not in AAP. As another poster said, we didn't find it important enough to pursue appealing and retesting, year after year - especially for a program that's *barely* more in depth than Gen Ed is. We felt they were learning more on their own than they'd ever be taught in a classroom. And we were right. Not being in AAP hasn't held them back one iota; in fact, quite the opposite. They've excelled in AP classes and our oldest is at an excellent university - one that even DCUM snobs rave about.

I hope any younger parents reading this and wringing their hands about AAP will realize it's *just not that important.* It really isn't. It's not some magical program that will change your child's life, especially if you also have kids who are independent, self-taught learners. Any child like that is going to succeed, regardless of a silly label bestowed on him or her in the 3rd grade.

Agreed, but then why would you feel the need to be delighted by other general ed kids surpassing AAP kids? You simply chose not to pursue it which is fine. There's no need to feel delight other than jealousy. And there is no need to go on these boards like others have done and say the general ed program is so much worse than AAP if you believe it isn't. That's all people are saying is that there is no real difference between AP classes and AAP classes and the classes are right for the kids who are ready and for the parents that want to pursue them. On this board I've found far more people upset over AAP being either not advanced enough or not inclusive enough and upset about the general ed curriculum not being good enough than people who think AAP is so much more superior. In fact there isn't a thread in the AAP forum that doesn't have some person coming on to bash the program. The amount of parents who think AAP is superior is much smaller than the group of parents who hate AAP.

First of all, I'm not the PP who made the "delighted" comment. There are several of us here. However, I understand exactly what that PP meant - she explained it fully and eloquently and you seem not to grasp her meaning. She is happy to see Gen Ed kids excelling. As am I. It has nothing to do with jealousy, and everything to do with being thrilled our kids are finally given opportunities they should have had all along.

Also, I've never said the Gen Ed program is "so much worse than AAP" - you seem to be taking the comments of a disparate group of posters and attributing them all to me. I said that the Gen Ed program and AAP are almost identical - something you won't hear many AAP parents admitting because they've convinced themselves (and their kids) that they are truly getting a "better education." That's why we didn't bother pursuing AAP. It was more trouble than it was worth, considering my kids have gone above and beyond what was being taught in AAP anyhow. Being labeled "AAP" certainly wouldn't make a difference.

It's notable that there aren't many posters claiming AAP is superior to Gen Ed - because it isn't. It's simply a different label for a group of very similar kids. Which makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:46. Whatever. There are general ed parents who think academics aren't important at all and flaunt how their children are more into sports and how nerdy the AAP kids are. Talk about how kids shouldn't be in school and should be playing more. Not everyone in my circle thinks AAP is a cool thing and even make fun of AAP students. The taunts go both ways.

Whatever? How old are you? It sounds like you need a new group of friends. Why would anyone make fun of kids -- AAP or Gen Ed?

Because they do. How can you not say that these parents who delight in other children surpassing some AAP child isn't a form of making fun of AAP kids?

The kids and parents who are the biggest bullies in our school also are the sports and the wealthy families. The kids go around and dismiss any kid that isn't in travel sports or who doesn't have money. The AAP kids for the most part are the studious type and like generations past are not always the most popular kids. Sometimes a child is smart, wealthy, and athletic and in AAP but there are a lot of kids in AAP who are quirky. They just aren't the type of kids generally that most often bully and make fun of others. There's no reason to delight in others doing better than them or say it's sweet justice. I agree it's great to be happy general ed kids are doing well in high school, but it's another thing to mock former AAP students.

Not the PP, but exactly who is "mocking" former AAP students? Are we not allowed to be happy for all the Gen Ed kids who excel?

As for your description of AAP kids, it sounds nothing like the kids at our center school. There are plenty of travel athletes and popular kids. In fact, more so in AAP because they far outnumber the Gen Ed kids at our school. AAP is nothing like the GT program of years ago. The very small amount of truly gifted kids were selected for that program, many with quirks. AAP today is full of mainstream kids - no different from Gen Ed. So please don't pretend they're some kind of protected class. If anything, they are more likely to bully Gen Ed kids for not "getting into" AAP. It happens all.the.time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:* There is no AAP in high school in FCPS.

* AAP participation in ES/MS does not guarantee academic success in high school.

* GenEd participation in ES/MS does not foreclose academic success in high school.

* The amount of snark and manufactured hurt feelings on this thread makes one wonder yet again whether AAP (as a separate program) is really worth it.

+100
AAP as a separate program is not worth it. I can't think of one other program that has caused this kind of divisiveness within FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:51 ATS though is a school that teaches advanced academics. HB Woodlawn is also known similarly and both of these enrollments are being discussed as unfair processes by APS parents. APS switches classes for advanced academics and they have magnet schools rather than special gifted program schools. It's a matter of opinion which program is more low key and there are plenty of APS parents who say the gifted education is not enough there.

I'm sure FCPS could do a better job with their AAP program, but IMO, they have other programs that are serving students worse than AAP and the amount of vitrol on this site for AAP is just not matching what we both agree is reality. I've also just seen too many schools decide not to offer any AAP services to be sure they would be offered if AAP went away. 10:11 said it best and most concisely.

Again, there is a significant difference between "choice" schools with a particular curriculum, where admission is still by lottery, and test-in only programs such as AAP in FCPS where key decisions are initially made in second grade.

The complaints relating to HB Woodlawn have less to do with its admissions policies (although some gossip about whether the children of well-connected parents are favored) and more to do with the fact that it is a small program getting a new building at a time when other schools in APS are seriously overcrowded.

APS also has a test in program.

It is much more low-key. APS does not, for example, separately report students participating in gifted programs in its enrollment statistics. You do not find multiple threads about how to appeal decisions in APS, or whether particular scores will be good enough to gain admission to the APS program.

AAP has become a form educational crack in FCPS. The more affluent want it because their children are entitled to the best things in life, Asians want it because they come from cultures where the results of admissions tests can determine long-term access to educational resources, and the middle class in poorer areas want it as a way to escape the ESOL/FARMS students. Over time, it's produced a dual system at the ES/MS levels in much of the county that replicates some of the attributes of a system with formal segregation.

+1000
Well said and very true.

[Anonymous]

23:51. Well not in our school and from the likes of the "sweet justice" poster there are snarks from gen-ed as well. No one can even talk about any academic success. Gone are the days of parents being proud of children's academic successes. It's not possible to say anything anymore without someone being offended. Does it really happen all.the.time that AAP kids berate gen-ed? What did your school do about it when you brought up this bullying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:17 Florida is considering a program to allow kids who are bullied to move to private school. Bullying continues at a much higher rate than snobbery over gifted education in the US and it's been proven that schools are not good at dealing with it well. We are at a school that mixes with general ed students except for two subjects, so I see your point that all kids need to learn to get along with each other, however it is important to make sure kids can find like peers as well and I believe this program really has allowed kids who have an interest in academics do work at their level and find peers who are more like them. It's not like AAP is the first gifted program in the US. Gifted programs and magnet schools have been around now for decades. And it's not like LLIV is even the only gifted program in FCPS. There are 3 levels of gifted programs in FCPS. Level 3 and 2 for some reason are never mentioned. APS has ATS, a gifted program that I've heard starts in kindergarten, and HB Woodlawn as well as TJ. Most school districts have some form of gifted education.

The poster who was "delighted" even mentions that her own kids don't care about the level of their friend's interest in academics while at the same time saying she's heard smug AAP kids brag. Is it both or just one observation? Based on her own post and my observations, I find it hard to believe that year after year AAP kids are bragging to other kids in school when she herself doesn't see that in her own kids and says it doesn't matter to anyone they know. It's all overblown on DCUM compared to the real world. The importance of AAP being talked about and the amount of smugness or bullying that goes on over AAP. There just aren't that many discussions on AAP in real life.

That was me. It's both. I'm not sure why it would seem hard to imagine both being true. It's because my kids are not smug about AAP and don't care if their friends are into academics or not that it irritates and embarrasses them when they hear their classmates brag to gen ed kids. They hear kids on the bus say things like, "Oh, you're lucky you don't get much homework in your class. It must be so easy compared to mine. They want us to learn soooo much more in AAP because they know we're smart." Yes, this was actually said on a bus to a field trip where I was a chaperone. My ds told me this kid says things like that all the time and is not well liked because of it, but that he's certainly not the only one.

And I never said it delighted me that gen ed kids surpass AAP kids in high school. I want good things for all kids. I'm simply saying that it makes me glad to see that the kids who weren't identified as advanced or "smart" can find success later on and get into a great school. I'm glad the door to academic success doesn't close at age 8.

Yes. These comments are commonplace at the center school my kids attend. The AAP kids, for the most part, are extremely sure of themselves and often refer to Gen Ed as "the dumb classes." Nice, right? Especially since the vast majority of Gen Ed and AAP kids are pretty much identical. The administration has had various counseling sessions for the students, to make them more aware of how awful they sound, but frankly, FCPS has created this monster. They've elected to separate very similar kids into two groups, with very distinct labels. The kids are well aware of who is in what class. The parents are very aware also. As another poster said, there is an undercurrent of tension. Of course, someone will chime in and say, "Not at our school! The kids don't care about such things!" But they're seeing it from the point of view of their own AAP kids. If their kids were in the group that certain kids call, "the dumb classes," they would be singing a much different tune.

And the sad part is that all of this could have been prevented if FCPS had continued with very small GT classes for kids who *actually* need gifted instruction (which AAP is not), and kept all of the other kids in Gen Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:23:51. Well not in our school and from the likes of the "sweet justice" poster there are snarks from gen-ed as well. No one can even talk about any academic success. Gone are the days of parents being proud of children's academic successes. It's not possible to say anything anymore without someone being offended. Does it really happen all.the.time that AAP kids berate gen-ed? What did your school do about it when you brought up this bullying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:23:51. Well not in our school and from the likes of the "sweet justice" poster there are snarks from gen-ed as well. No one can even talk about any academic success. Gone are the days of parents being proud of children's academic successes. It's not possible to say anything anymore without someone being offended. Does it really happen all.the.time that AAP kids berate gen-ed? What did your school do about it when you brought up this bullying?

Plenty of parents have brought this subject up to the administration, not just me. I address this in another post. A counseling session was set up to enlighten these kids that they are not superior to the Gen Ed kids, and are not to treat them as their inferiors. They behave better for awhile, but it always starts up again, usually on the bus, at recess, or lunch. Honestly, it's not so much "bullying" as it is being so cocky that they feel they can simply state things like, "Oh, the teachers know we're smart so we get the harder work," or my favorite, "If you had just tried harder, you would have gotten into AAP!" Just really clueless. Makes you wonder what their parents are telling them at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:17 Florida is considering a program to allow kids who are bullied to move to private school. Bullying continues at a much higher rate than snobbery over gifted education in the US and it's been proven that schools are not good at dealing with it well. We are at a school that mixes with general ed students except for two subjects, so I see your point that all kids need to learn to get along with each other, however it is important to make sure kids can find like peers as well and I believe this program really has allowed kids who have an interest in academics do work at their level and find peers who are more like them. It's not like AAP is the first gifted program in the US. Gifted programs and magnet schools have been around now for decades. And it's not like LLIV is even the only gifted program in FCPS. There are 3 levels of gifted programs in FCPS. Level 3 and 2 for some reason are never mentioned. APS has ATS, a gifted program that I've heard starts in kindergarten, and HB Woodlawn as well as TJ. Most school districts have some form of gifted education.

The poster who was "delighted" even mentions that her own kids don't care about the level of their friend's interest in academics while at the same time saying she's heard smug AAP kids brag. Is it both or just one observation? Based on her own post and my observations, I find it hard to believe that year after year AAP kids are bragging to other kids in school when she herself doesn't see that in her own kids and says it doesn't matter to anyone they know. It's all overblown on DCUM compared to the real world. The importance of AAP being talked about and the amount of smugness or bullying that goes on over AAP. There just aren't that many discussions on AAP in real life.

That was me. It's both. I'm not sure why it would seem hard to imagine both being true. It's because my kids are not smug about AAP and don't care if their friends are into academics or not that it irritates and embarrasses them when they hear their classmates brag to gen ed kids. They hear kids on the bus say things like, "Oh, you're lucky you don't get much homework in your class. It must be so easy compared to mine. They want us to learn soooo much more in AAP because they know we're smart." Yes, this was actually said on a bus to a field trip where I was a chaperone. My ds told me this kid says things like that all the time and is not well liked because of it, but that he's certainly not the only one.

And I never said it delighted me that gen ed kids surpass AAP kids in high school. I want good things for all kids. I'm simply saying that it makes me glad to see that the kids who weren't identified as advanced or "smart" can find success later on and get into a great school. I'm glad the door to academic success doesn't close at age 8.

Yes. These comments are commonplace at the center school my kids attend. The AAP kids, for the most part, are extremely sure of themselves and often refer to Gen Ed as "the dumb classes." Nice, right? Especially since the vast majority of Gen Ed and AAP kids are pretty much identical. The administration has had various counseling sessions for the students, to make them more aware of how awful they sound, but frankly, FCPS has created this monster. They've elected to separate very similar kids into two groups, with very distinct labels. The kids are well aware of who is in what class. The parents are very aware also. As another poster said, there is an undercurrent of tension. Of course, someone will chime in and say, "Not at our school! The kids don't care about such things!" But they're seeing it from the point of view of their own AAP kids. If their kids were in the group that certain kids call, "the dumb classes," they would be singing a much different tune.

And the sad part is that all of this could have been prevented if FCPS had continued with very small GT classes for kids who *actually* need gifted instruction (which AAP is not), and kept all of the other kids in Gen Ed.

So what then? How would this perfect world of differentiation work in detail with a smaller group of advanced students being labeled GT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:17 Florida is considering a program to allow kids who are bullied to move to private school. Bullying continues at a much higher rate than snobbery over gifted education in the US and it's been proven that schools are not good at dealing with it well. We are at a school that mixes with general ed students except for two subjects, so I see your point that all kids need to learn to get along with each other, however it is important to make sure kids can find like peers as well and I believe this program really has allowed kids who have an interest in academics do work at their level and find peers who are more like them. It's not like AAP is the first gifted program in the US. Gifted programs and magnet schools have been around now for decades. And it's not like LLIV is even the only gifted program in FCPS. There are 3 levels of gifted programs in FCPS. Level 3 and 2 for some reason are never mentioned. APS has ATS, a gifted program that I've heard starts in kindergarten, and HB Woodlawn as well as TJ. Most school districts have some form of gifted education.

The poster who was "delighted" even mentions that her own kids don't care about the level of their friend's interest in academics while at the same time saying she's heard smug AAP kids brag. Is it both or just one observation? Based on her own post and my observations, I find it hard to believe that year after year AAP kids are bragging to other kids in school when she herself doesn't see that in her own kids and says it doesn't matter to anyone they know. It's all overblown on DCUM compared to the real world. The importance of AAP being talked about and the amount of smugness or bullying that goes on over AAP. There just aren't that many discussions on AAP in real life.

That was me. It's both. I'm not sure why it would seem hard to imagine both being true. It's because my kids are not smug about AAP and don't care if their friends are into academics or not that it irritates and embarrasses them when they hear their classmates brag to gen ed kids. They hear kids on the bus say things like, "Oh, you're lucky you don't get much homework in your class. It must be so easy compared to mine. They want us to learn soooo much more in AAP because they know we're smart." Yes, this was actually said on a bus to a field trip where I was a chaperone. My ds told me this kid says things like that all the time and is not well liked because of it, but that he's certainly not the only one.

And I never said it delighted me that gen ed kids surpass AAP kids in high school. I want good things for all kids. I'm simply saying that it makes me glad to see that the kids who weren't identified as advanced or "smart" can find success later on and get into a great school. I'm glad the door to academic success doesn't close at age 8.

Yes. These comments are commonplace at the center school my kids attend. The AAP kids, for the most part, are extremely sure of themselves and often refer to Gen Ed as "the dumb classes." Nice, right? Especially since the vast majority of Gen Ed and AAP kids are pretty much identical. The administration has had various counseling sessions for the students, to make them more aware of how awful they sound, but frankly, FCPS has created this monster. They've elected to separate very similar kids into two groups, with very distinct labels. The kids are well aware of who is in what class. The parents are very aware also. As another poster said, there is an undercurrent of tension. Of course, someone will chime in and say, "Not at our school! The kids don't care about such things!" But they're seeing it from the point of view of their own AAP kids. If their kids were in the group that certain kids call, "the dumb classes," they would be singing a much different tune.

And the sad part is that all of this could have been prevented if FCPS had continued with very small GT classes for kids who *actually* need gifted instruction (which AAP is not), and kept all of the other kids in Gen Ed.

So what then? How would this perfect world of differentiation work in detail with a smaller group of advanced students being labeled GT?

In the 80s in FCPS it was one or two kids in each grade who were in GT. This is how it should be now. The current system is doing a disservice to the few gifted kids who truly need it. Currently, at my DCs elementary school, it's pretty common that close to half of each class is in AAP (approx 80 or so total kids in each grade and almost half of them being labeled AAP). We are not a center but a level IV school. Statistically impossible that there are 40 of 80 kids "gifted" at one school year after year. This is called tracking - and Fairfax claims they don't track.

I had one in AAP and one not in AAP go through this school. The AAP kids can be just rotten and never miss an opportunity to remind the Gen Ed kids they are "smarter". I have heard it all and the parents can be just as bad. My kids are older now and watching their Gen Ed friends excel and watching some of the AAP kids flounder has been eye opening and, yes, does make me happy to witness after years of telling DS that things will eventually all even out. Believe me, they do!

[Anonymous]

APP is a sham and allows people to buy cheaper real estate in less desirable school pyramids and then escape the FARMS aka Poors

If the kid is above average intelligence yes thats it simply above average it is very easy to appeal and get in

I don't blame people that do this but that's all it really is

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:10:17 Florida is considering a program to allow kids who are bullied to move to private school. Bullying continues at a much higher rate than snobbery over gifted education in the US and it's been proven that schools are not good at dealing with it well. We are at a school that mixes with general ed students except for two subjects, so I see your point that all kids need to learn to get along with each other, however it is important to make sure kids can find like peers as well and I believe this program really has allowed kids who have an interest in academics do work at their level and find peers who are more like them. It's not like AAP is the first gifted program in the US. Gifted programs and magnet schools have been around now for decades. And it's not like LLIV is even the only gifted program in FCPS. There are 3 levels of gifted programs in FCPS. Level 3 and 2 for some reason are never mentioned. APS has ATS, a gifted program that I've heard starts in kindergarten, and HB Woodlawn as well as TJ. Most school districts have some form of gifted education.

The poster who was "delighted" even mentions that her own kids don't care about the level of their friend's interest in academics while at the same time saying she's heard smug AAP kids brag. Is it both or just one observation? Based on her own post and my observations, I find it hard to believe that year after year AAP kids are bragging to other kids in school when she herself doesn't see that in her own kids and says it doesn't matter to anyone they know. It's all overblown on DCUM compared to the real world. The importance of AAP being talked about and the amount of smugness or bullying that goes on over AAP. There just aren't that many discussions on AAP in real life.

That was me. It's both. I'm not sure why it would seem hard to imagine both being true. It's because my kids are not smug about AAP and don't care if their friends are into academics or not that it irritates and embarrasses them when they hear their classmates brag to gen ed kids. They hear kids on the bus say things like, "Oh, you're lucky you don't get much homework in your class. It must be so easy compared to mine. They want us to learn soooo much more in AAP because they know we're smart." Yes, this was actually said on a bus to a field trip where I was a chaperone. My ds told me this kid says things like that all the time and is not well liked because of it, but that he's certainly not the only one.

And I never said it delighted me that gen ed kids surpass AAP kids in high school. I want good things for all kids. I'm simply saying that it makes me glad to see that the kids who weren't identified as advanced or "smart" can find success later on and get into a great school. I'm glad the door to academic success doesn't close at age 8.

Yes. These comments are commonplace at the center school my kids attend. The AAP kids, for the most part, are extremely sure of themselves and often refer to Gen Ed as "the dumb classes." Nice, right? Especially since the vast majority of Gen Ed and AAP kids are pretty much identical. The administration has had various counseling sessions for the students, to make them more aware of how awful they sound, but frankly, FCPS has created this monster. They've elected to separate very similar kids into two groups, with very distinct labels. The kids are well aware of who is in what class. The parents are very aware also. As another poster said, there is an undercurrent of tension. Of course, someone will chime in and say, "Not at our school! The kids don't care about such things!" But they're seeing it from the point of view of their own AAP kids. If their kids were in the group that certain kids call, "the dumb classes," they would be singing a much different tune.

And the sad part is that all of this could have been prevented if FCPS had continued with very small GT classes for kids who *actually* need gifted instruction (which AAP is not), and kept all of the other kids in Gen Ed.

So what then? How would this perfect world of differentiation work in detail with a smaller group of advanced students being labeled GT?

In the 80s in FCPS it was one or two kids in each grade who were in GT. This is how it should be now. The current system is doing a disservice to the few gifted kids who truly need it. Currently, at my DCs elementary school, it's pretty common that close to half of each class is in AAP (approx 80 or so total kids in each grade and almost half of them being labeled AAP). We are not a center but a level IV school. Statistically impossible that there are 40 of 80 kids "gifted" at one school year after year. This is called tracking - and Fairfax claims they don't track.

I had one in AAP and one not in AAP go through this school. The AAP kids can be just rotten and never miss an opportunity to remind the Gen Ed kids they are "smarter". I have heard it all and the parents can be just as bad. My kids are older now and watching their Gen Ed friends excel and watching some of the AAP kids flounder has been eye opening and, yes, does make me happy to witness after years of telling DS that things will eventually all even out. Believe me, they do!

So make the GT kids travel farther to centers and make the group smaller. Only have centers and no base school LLIV. What happens to everyone else? FCPS isn't the same as in the 80's.

[Anonymous]

How does FCPS approach the idea of a "fixed" vs "growth" mindset? Research shows that having a growth mindset is a key aspect of success. I know my kids in APS hear a lot about developing a growth mindset. But it seems that the things people say they are hearing AAP/Gen Ed kids say to each other show that those kids are getting a really strong message that reinforces a "fixed" mindset -- e.g. we're smart/you're dumb. That's damaging for both groups -- the "dumb" ones can start to think they really are and not try while the "smart" ones become averse to trying things that might be hard because struggling with something means they aren't "smart" after all. Getting a B or (horrors!) a C in something becomes a tragedy rather than an opportunity to figure out how to improve.