Would free Pre-K in East and North Moco improve the school system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it makes sense to keep the preK for lower income families, and not make it geographically based. There are large numbers of high earning families in east and north county that can afford preK, and meanwhile there are many low income students in downcounty and the west that need more help than they are getting.

Not really, a few on both ends of the spectrum but you’re delusional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the damage already done by pre-k? That's Hart and Ridley study concluded that the lack of early vocabulary in children was never made up later on. Haven't they studied Head Start and found that the initial gains wear off when students hit the wall halfway through ES? They have little background knowledge of anything so once they learn how to read, they can't comprehend what they are reading.

This. I work with impoverished 0-5 year olds and the “achievement gap” shows up much, much earlier than pre-k, sadly.

About 9 months before birth I'd estimate.

Cool, the eugenicists have arrived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the damage already done by pre-k? That's Hart and Ridley study concluded that the lack of early vocabulary in children was never made up later on. Haven't they studied Head Start and found that the initial gains wear off when students hit the wall halfway through ES? They have little background knowledge of anything so once they learn how to read, they can't comprehend what they are reading.

This. I work with impoverished 0-5 year olds and the “achievement gap” shows up much, much earlier than pre-k, sadly.

About 9 months before birth I'd estimate.

Cool, the eugenicists have arrived.

you mean realist taxpayers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the damage already done by pre-k? That's Hart and Ridley study concluded that the lack of early vocabulary in children was never made up later on. Haven't they studied Head Start and found that the initial gains wear off when students hit the wall halfway through ES? They have little background knowledge of anything so once they learn how to read, they can't comprehend what they are reading.

EH, what they found is that the benefits of Head Start wear off *in the absence of further high quality intervention."

So, Head Start can't fix structural inequalities, but Head Start + high quality education does produce better outcomes than no preschool, even no preschool + high quality elementary school.

The high quality education should include tracking, because what is needed is the background information that is necessary to comprehend what you have learned to decode. Asking everyone else to sit in a classroom while teachers introduce basic animals, colors, numbers vs. letters, weather vocabulary, directions like up and down, etc. to kids who are aliterate is too much. Let's address the needs of all kids by letting teachers focus on a specific segment of the population and not expect miracles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the damage already done by pre-k? That's Hart and Ridley study concluded that the lack of early vocabulary in children was never made up later on. Haven't they studied Head Start and found that the initial gains wear off when students hit the wall halfway through ES? They have little background knowledge of anything so once they learn how to read, they can't comprehend what they are reading.

EH, what they found is that the benefits of Head Start wear off *in the absence of further high quality intervention."

So, Head Start can't fix structural inequalities, but Head Start + high quality education does produce better outcomes than no preschool, even no preschool + high quality elementary school.

The high quality education should include tracking, because what is needed is the background information that is necessary to comprehend what you have learned to decode. Asking everyone else to sit in a classroom while teachers introduce basic animals, colors, numbers vs. letters, weather vocabulary, directions like up and down, etc. to kids who are aliterate is too much. Let's address the needs of all kids by letting teachers focus on a specific segment of the population and not expect miracles.

You're absolutely right, but it is VERY hard to justify tracking in early elementary because you end up boosting exactly the kids who come in with the advantages. So my kid comes in reading and doing basic math because we are well-educated middle class people, so then they get tracked, so then they get ahead, so they get further tracked. It institutionalizes privilege. So...figure out how to do it without just solidifying class structures and we may actually get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the damage already done by pre-k? That's Hart and Ridley study concluded that the lack of early vocabulary in children was never made up later on. Haven't they studied Head Start and found that the initial gains wear off when students hit the wall halfway through ES? They have little background knowledge of anything so once they learn how to read, they can't comprehend what they are reading.

EH, what they found is that the benefits of Head Start wear off *in the absence of further high quality intervention."

So, Head Start can't fix structural inequalities, but Head Start + high quality education does produce better outcomes than no preschool, even no preschool + high quality elementary school.

The high quality education should include tracking, because what is needed is the background information that is necessary to comprehend what you have learned to decode. Asking everyone else to sit in a classroom while teachers introduce basic animals, colors, numbers vs. letters, weather vocabulary, directions like up and down, etc. to kids who are aliterate is too much. Let's address the needs of all kids by letting teachers focus on a specific segment of the population and not expect miracles.

You're absolutely right, but it is VERY hard to justify tracking in early elementary because you end up boosting exactly the kids who come in with the advantages. So my kid comes in reading and doing basic math because we are well-educated middle class people, so then they get tracked, so then they get ahead, so they get further tracked. It institutionalizes privilege. So...figure out how to do it without just solidifying class structures and we may actually get there.

I disagree. I came from a poor immigrant family. My parents were poor but highly valued education and my mom took me to every single free program she could find (ex. At the library). We took the bus everywhere because she did not know how to drive. Both parents could not always help me with homework, but made sure that we understood it was a priority.

This has nothing to do with being white and/or privileged. You don’t need to be rich to teach your kid his numbers and letters and shapes. And you do not Bee to be rich/White to let your kid know that your family values education.

[Anonymous]

I’m fonot tach to potential of each and every student, not just the ones who are behind all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it makes sense to keep the preK for lower income families, and not make it geographically based. There are large numbers of high earning families in east and north county that can afford preK, and meanwhile there are many low income students in downcounty and the west that need more help than they are getting.

Not really, a few on both ends of the spectrum but you’re delusional

Ok, well, I live in East County and have a HHI of $400k/year and plenty of neighbors in similar situations. If you’d like to subsidize me, I will certainly use the free services, but I don’t think it’s the best bang for your buck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m fonot tach to potential of each and every student, not just the ones who are behind all the time.

I think this is a fair point.

How much money do we throw at lower income families and are we actually getting good results from the money that is being spent?

[Anonymous]

Where would you put them? Most schools are already overcapacity (in our cluster and all neighboring clusters), and they can't build enough new schools fast enough for the current students!

Will they just give vouchers to the existing private preschools? Which means the good ones will increase theie fees for those who can afford above and beyond the voucher level, and you'll still have the "haves" and the "have nots."

Need way more info about "universal preschool" before I can make an informed decision....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where would you put them? Most schools are already overcapacity (in our cluster and all neighboring clusters), and they can't build enough new schools fast enough for the current students!

Will they just give vouchers to the existing private preschools? Which means the good ones will increase theie fees for those who can afford above and beyond the voucher level, and you'll still have the "haves" and the "have nots."

Need way more info about "universal preschool" before I can make an informed decision....

I agree. Unfortunately I think many people in this liberal county think ‘Yay! Universal Preschool!!’ and don’t think about the consequences of supporting that decision. Same as the decision to be a Sanctuary County and welcome illegal immigrants. Sounds well and good and kind-hearted, until you realize that it’s od to a huge problem of over-crowding and lack of resources in the school system as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think its interesting how many people here bash immigrants and spanish speaking families. Most of our relatives were immigrants at one point. Many forget that.

I also find it interesting on here how many people push play based preschools with no academics and they are the same ones complaining about the other kids being behind when their kids are equally behind if they don't know the basics and are pre-reading or reading before going to K.

Play based preschool doesn't mean you can't or don't expose children to academic learning. My daughter is in a Reggio Emilia program. I love the environment is helping her learn through play. She gets read to a lot at school (one of her teachers came from a academic preschool and confided in me that she reads to the kids a lot more at the Reggio school because she isn't required to read certain books to fulfill curriculum requirements and isn't tied to be super strict schedule that says they have to do X amounts of read-alouds a day). We also read to her at home. She has letter puzzles and magnets to help her learn about letter and number recognition and spell her name.

Right now she's only two and a half so I'm perfectly fine with just working on letter and number recognition when the mood strikes. As she gets older we can do more work on letter sounds and writing letters. She is going to have man years of attending school in a more academically rigorous section so I'm glad that preschool is not very rigorous right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its interesting how many people here bash immigrants and spanish speaking families. Most of our relatives were immigrants at one point. Many forget that.

I also find it interesting on here how many people push play based preschools with no academics and they are the same ones complaining about the other kids being behind when their kids are equally behind if they don't know the basics and are pre-reading or reading before going to K.

Play based preschool doesn't mean you can't or don't expose children to academic learning. My daughter is in a Reggio Emilia program. I love the environment is helping her learn through play. She gets read to a lot at school (one of her teachers came from a academic preschool and confided in me that she reads to the kids a lot more at the Reggio school because she isn't required to read certain books to fulfill curriculum requirements and isn't tied to be super strict schedule that says they have to do X amounts of read-alouds a day). We also read to her at home. She has letter puzzles and magnets to help her learn about letter and number recognition and spell her name.

Right now she's only two and a half so I'm perfectly fine with just working on letter and number recognition when the mood strikes. As she gets older we can do more work on letter sounds and writing letters. She is going to have man years of attending school in a more academically rigorous section so I'm glad that preschool is not very rigorous right now.

I wish more preschools were like that. I wish my son's was like that.

Of course people push play based preschools. That's because in preschool you are supposed to play and not be forced into academics. That is not the age to learn to read. It's the age to learn to play and be social. We need to put to rest the idea that teaching kids to read and do academics at an early age somehow gives them a leg up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its interesting how many people here bash immigrants and spanish speaking families. Most of our relatives were immigrants at one point. Many forget that.

I also find it interesting on here how many people push play based preschools with no academics and they are the same ones complaining about the other kids being behind when their kids are equally behind if they don't know the basics and are pre-reading or reading before going to K.

Play based preschool doesn't mean you can't or don't expose children to academic learning. My daughter is in a Reggio Emilia program. I love the environment is helping her learn through play. She gets read to a lot at school (one of her teachers came from a academic preschool and confided in me that she reads to the kids a lot more at the Reggio school because she isn't required to read certain books to fulfill curriculum requirements and isn't tied to be super strict schedule that says they have to do X amounts of read-alouds a day). We also read to her at home. She has letter puzzles and magnets to help her learn about letter and number recognition and spell her name.

Right now she's only two and a half so I'm perfectly fine with just working on letter and number recognition when the mood strikes. As she gets older we can do more work on letter sounds and writing letters. She is going to have man years of attending school in a more academically rigorous section so I'm glad that preschool is not very rigorous right now.

I wish more preschools were like that. I wish my son's was like that.

Of course people push play based preschools. That's because in preschool you are supposed to play and not be forced into academics. That is not the age to learn to read. It's the age to learn to play and be social. We need to put to rest the idea that teaching kids to read and do academics at an early age somehow gives them a leg up.

The largest benefit is the rich language used that primes kids to be ready for academics. It can be provided at home, but often is not, especially for kids who live in poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its interesting how many people here bash immigrants and spanish speaking families. Most of our relatives were immigrants at one point. Many forget that.

I also find it interesting on here how many people push play based preschools with no academics and they are the same ones complaining about the other kids being behind when their kids are equally behind if they don't know the basics and are pre-reading or reading before going to K.

Play based preschool doesn't mean you can't or don't expose children to academic learning. My daughter is in a Reggio Emilia program. I love the environment is helping her learn through play. She gets read to a lot at school (one of her teachers came from a academic preschool and confided in me that she reads to the kids a lot more at the Reggio school because she isn't required to read certain books to fulfill curriculum requirements and isn't tied to be super strict schedule that says they have to do X amounts of read-alouds a day). We also read to her at home. She has letter puzzles and magnets to help her learn about letter and number recognition and spell her name.

Right now she's only two and a half so I'm perfectly fine with just working on letter and number recognition when the mood strikes. As she gets older we can do more work on letter sounds and writing letters. She is going to have man years of attending school in a more academically rigorous section so I'm glad that preschool is not very rigorous right now.

As the standards have gotten more rigorous (kindergartners in mcps are now supposed to read at a level 6 at the end of the year, up from a level 4) so it's getting pushed down into preschool. It's kind of ridiculous. We understand that there's a huge range of normal when it comes to other milestones (some kids walk at 8 months, other at 16 months) or talking but somehow there's all this pressure to be kindergarten ready.

Coupled with that In more affluent communities you also have parents who want thier little Larla or Larlo to be the most advanced student in their class. I have a friend who was a reading specialist in an affluent community school. She told me parents would be pushing their kids to read Harry Potter in first grade because they had so much anxiety around their kids being above average.



I wish more preschools were like that. I wish my son's was like that.

Of course people push play based preschools. That's because in preschool you are supposed to play and not be forced into academics. That is not the age to learn to read. It's the age to learn to play and be social. We need to put to rest the idea that teaching kids to read and do academics at an early age somehow gives them a leg up.