FWIW, one parent's take on redshirting (sort of) now that DS has started K in MCPS

[Anonymous]

Nice metaanalysis/summary confirming the importance of parents focusing more on the needs of their own children (with minimal regard to whether their child is the youngest or the oldest in kindergarten class) rather than neurotic infatuation with children of other parents that are not the same age as their own child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some interesting reading on actual scientific studies regarding the phenomenon (taken from Newsweek):


So that’s the choice parents face: is a 2-point statistical advantage worth having a child sit on the sidelines of learning for a whole year?

What sort of analyst would assume a child is "sitting on the sidelines of learning" for a whole year? Who wouldn't enroll their Pre-Ker in Junior K, language classes, sports or music, and/or other enrichment activities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[
I was the youngest or second youngest in my class all through grade school. I started K at age 4 and graduated high school at 17. Somehow I managed to get a graduate degree and one of the top jobs in my field, have friends and boyfriends, marry a wonderful man, and have a happy family. I hardly consider myself "doomed to failure." In fact I was in the gifted program in elementary and middle school and in AP classes in high school. Nor do I feel my teenage angst was any more pronounced than anyone else's just because I was younger.

I find this whole "redshirting" phenomenon very funny. When I was a kid it was embarrassing to be held back in school, because it suggested you were stupid or babyish, and parents fought to get their on-the-cusp kids started earlier. Now we have the opposite situation, with parents fighting to hold their kids back. I wonder what changed.

Plenty of young kids (i.e. summer birthdays, correctly placed by age) do FINE. However, some don't and would benefit from being started later. And if they don't get held back, they often go on to have normal problems that, in comparison with older kids, look like "learning disabilities".

In addition -- once a child starts school, it is difficult to near impossible to hold them back anymore. Schools refuse to do that, as it is considered psychologically damaging to hold a child back a year. (And it probably is). So if you have a child who is right on the cusp, you really have to make the decision before K or even PreK.

Actually, at least in our son's public school, we haven't found it impossible to hold a child back. I'm the parent who posted about our son possibly having a form of dyslexia. We could have had him repeat kindergarten. That just would've delayed solutions to learning challenges. It's possible we'll have him repeat first grade, but at that point, we'll have a lot of testing data and have a better sense of how to proceed.

[Anonymous]

My son is 4 with an Aug. b-day and this thread is really stressing me out. It's a bit early to know 100%, but I suspect he will be academically ready to start K next fall. (He knows letters/sounds and is just starting to sound out a few simple 3 letter words).

Socially, fine motor skills, following directions, etc. I think he will manage at all of that as well just fine.

My big concern is the physical readiness. He is scrawny and will likely always be so. He wears braces on his feet. He is not athletic/coordinated. He got all of this from me (genetically speaking) and I know how hard it was on me to always be "last picked" for sports, etc. and I was a girl so it didn't really even impact my social standing. (For the boys, it would have). My parents skipped me and I was always the youngest although honestly I was so unathletic I suspect I would have been last-picked either way.

So when I consider redshirting my son next year it's not becauseI hope he'll play competitive sports down the road -- there's probably little chance of that. I'm thinking that even if I hold him back he's probably always going to be one of the least athletic and if he's the youngest in his class on top of that then he'll probably be far and away at the bottom rather than just bottom of the pack. Compounding this, due to the entire redshirting practice I'm being told by firiends not only will he be youngest, but the'll likely be the ONLY June, July or Aug. kid in his class.

It seemed to me growing up that boys were merciless to each other in this arena. But for this, I would not consider holding him back. I hate that other mothers might think I'm trying to have him be the smartest in the class or what-not when I'm really just afraid of his being the picked-on runt of the litter.

But is school about athletics or academics or are both valid considerations?

Academically I'd prefer to have him go on-time because I think he will be motivated by trying to do what the older kids do . Unfortunately, in athetlics, I fear it won't it won't matter as much how motivated he is. Does anyone have a pep story to tell me about how their woefully clumsy kid practiced reallyreally hard and becamse a great [fill in the sport] player? Am I being too fatalistic about this based on my own experience as a child? (I realize without seein gmy kid on a field you can't judge -- but my husband is none too hopeful eithe.

Neither of us "cares" in any sense -- we are not athelet types (obviously) and we are actually just grateful he can walk and run because he was so delayed in his gross motor skills that there was a time we were truly afraid of a serious problem. But I *do* care about his happiness and figure if I can hold him back and soften the blow a bit on the lack of atheltic ability, maybe I should do so.

FWIW, I have a younger daughter who is Sept. bday and even though our cut off is 9/1 I already know I am going to try to push her forward. She does everything big brother does including trying to sound out words (and she did not inherit my wimpy physique.) I can't imagine waiting until almost 6 for K for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is 4 with an Aug. b-day and this thread is really stressing me out. It's a bit early to know 100%, but I suspect he will be academically ready to start K next fall. (He knows letters/sounds and is just starting to sound out a few simple 3 letter words).

Socially, fine motor skills, following directions, etc. I think he will manage at all of that as well just fine.

My big concern is the physical readiness. He is scrawny and will likely always be so. He wears braces on his feet. He is not athletic/coordinated. He got all of this from me (genetically speaking) and I know how hard it was on me to always be "last picked" for sports, etc. and I was a girl so it didn't really even impact my social standing. (For the boys, it would have). My parents skipped me and I was always the youngest although honestly I was so unathletic I suspect I would have been last-picked either way.

So when I consider redshirting my son next year it's not becauseI hope he'll play competitive sports down the road -- there's probably little chance of that. I'm thinking that even if I hold him back he's probably always going to be one of the least athletic and if he's the youngest in his class on top of that then he'll probably be far and away at the bottom rather than just bottom of the pack. Compounding this, due to the entire redshirting practice I'm being told by firiends not only will he be youngest, but the'll likely be the ONLY June, July or Aug. kid in his class.

It seemed to me growing up that boys were merciless to each other in this arena. But for this, I would not consider holding him back. I hate that other mothers might think I'm trying to have him be the smartest in the class or what-not when I'm really just afraid of his being the picked-on runt of the litter.

But is school about athletics or academics or are both valid considerations?

Academically I'd prefer to have him go on-time because I think he will be motivated by trying to do what the older kids do . Unfortunately, in athetlics, I fear it won't it won't matter as much how motivated he is. Does anyone have a pep story to tell me about how their woefully clumsy kid practiced reallyreally hard and becamse a great [fill in the sport] player? Am I being too fatalistic about this based on my own experience as a child? (I realize without seein gmy kid on a field you can't judge -- but my husband is none too hopeful eithe.

Neither of us "cares" in any sense -- we are not athelet types (obviously) and we are actually just grateful he can walk and run because he was so delayed in his gross motor skills that there was a time we were truly afraid of a serious problem. But I *do* care about his happiness and figure if I can hold him back and soften the blow a bit on the lack of atheltic ability, maybe I should do so.

FWIW, I have a younger daughter who is Sept. bday and even though our cut off is 9/1 I already know I am going to try to push her forward. She does everything big brother does including trying to sound out words (and she did not inherit my wimpy physique.) I can't imagine waiting until almost 6 for K for her.

A few thoughts: 1) Have you considered OT for your son? It sounds like it could be beneficial; 2) I don't know where you live but in our public school in Arlington, there were a number of boys who had summer b-days (as late as August) and started on time. This notion that there are no longer 5-year old boys with summer b-days in Kindergarten is becoming a bit of an urban legend; 3) Not all boys are into sports and it really doesn't seem to matter as much as it used to, at least in lots of communities in the DC area -- DS is not into team sports at all. Played soccer last year in K - didn't want to do it anymore. Is about to start gymnastics, likes ice skating and swimming. It's fine. Good luck - if your son is fine academically (which seems to be the case) and shares/is social, he'll be fine in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

This notion that there are no longer 5-year old boys with summer b-days in Kindergarten is becoming a bit of an urban legend

This. We are in FCPS and there are plenty of kids, boys and girls, with summer birthdays who start on time.

[Anonymous]

PP -- If I were you I'd try to make sure your son got plenty of quality physical opportunities and education starting now, and continuing for a few years at least. A really good tumbling class, maybe, or an excellent introduction to soccer, swimming, playing T ball and catching the ball, kicking a ball, etc., geared to whatever level he is at now. Do a few in a row to develop good skills before K and grade 1 start.

The thing about being one of the youngest for any kind of instruction is that if you don't have the skills to participate you can't take full advantage of the instruction. So you won't get better as fast as the other kids do.

This can however be remedied, by the equivalent of private tutoring or classes for reading/math difficulties. Since you say you and your husband aren't that sporty, it might be a good idea to find someone who IS who can really teach your son the skills he will need.

I wouldn't hold a child back if he had the academic skills necessary for K because academics are the largest part of the school day.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't hold a child back if he had the academic skills necessary for K because academics are the largest part of the school day.

Eh, I would hold a child back who had the academic skills but not the social ones, because I think it's easier for teachers to deal with a range of academic achievement than to deal with a class full of kids who can't cope with transitions or resolve their own problems or take turns or whatever.

But I'm in Arlington. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I wouldn't hold a child back if he had the academic skills necessary for K because academics are the largest part of the school day.

Eh, I would hold a child back who had the academic skills but not the social ones, because I think it's easier for teachers to deal with a range of academic achievement than to deal with a class full of kids who can't cope with transitions or resolve their own problems or take turns or whatever.

But I'm in Arlington. YMMV.

I didn't see that the poster mentioned her child had poor social skills! I only saw her concern with his physical coordination.

Personally I'd work on the coordination outside of school, but place him appropriately with his age peers if he had the necessary skills for reading and writing. If he is also have social skills issues that that also needs to be considered -- but I didn't think he had that.

[Anonymous]

8:39 here. I was quoting the poster before me and assuming that by page 6 we're no longer discussing the OP, at least not solely.

IME, parents who focus on the academic aspects of preK and K tend to have kids who really need help with the social stuff.

[Anonymous]

With full disclosure I am very opposed to the notion of red shirting. Good teaching is about recognizing that there is a range of capabilities and offering different approaches based on where a student is at in their development. Students also learn from each other even at early ages, though traditional classroom environments tend to stifle this. If the class age and capability range is too broad you need an excellent teacher and the flexibility to provide instrucion across the ranges. Ideally, this could create a very dynamic learning environment with children who are more advanced learning to help other children and children who struggle more finding ways to excel in some areas and learning good work habits when being challenged in others. Sadly from everything I have heard this is not how public schools and even many private schools are run today. We value science, math, history etc and have no interest in Waldorf and I don't know of any Montessori programs that go K-6 in my area.

My DS has a spring birthday and has a speech delay. He is very advanced in other areas but we don't think his verbal, spoken (his level of verbal understanding, cognition and vocabularly is very high) is just a mild delay or going to go away with all the speech therapy we are doing by K. Ironically his social and fine motor skills, which usually are the reasons for red shirting are very strong. We can't afford private school for two kids and I'm not convinced this would be much better. So now even though it is very early we are considering red shirting him because I don't want him to get lost in the shuffle. I'm not thrilled about this because I'm afraid he will be bored in other areas and he is already tall for his age. No to hijack this post which is more of a debate about red shirting in general but curious if anyone held back a child with a spring birthday who was advanced in other areas but delayed in one and how it worked out for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:.
FWIW, I have a younger daughter who is Sept. bday and even though our cut off is 9/1 I already know I am going to try to push her forward. She does everything big brother does including trying to sound out words (and she did not inherit my wimpy physique.) I can't imagine waiting until almost 6 for K for her.

I know you need to do what is right for each individual child. But one thing to consider is how, if you hold your son back and push your daughter ahead, it will affect their sibling relationship. This happened with my husband and his brother -- my husband was the more academically-inclined as a child, and was pushed ahead, ending up in some of the same classes as his older borther. My brother-in-law is perfectly smart and successful now, but this contributed to life-long tension and rivalry.

I don't know that there's anything to be done about it in the circumstances you decsribed, but it is something to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just by observation you probabably wouldn't notice much of a difference; but if you worked with the children academically you might. For instance, if a child was unable to blend and segment phonemes, or couldn't come up with a word that rhymed with "mouse" -- that's not something you would see on a field trip or playdate.

Well, if you know the parents very well, and you sit with the kids and read stories with them, you really do know where they are. And if you spend time in the classroom as an occasional helper, and see the kids in circle time, you can absolutely tell things like rhymes and numbers. And parents compare these things. A kid I know who was held back was the best puzzle solver I've known, better than some of his friends who went forward. And obviously more cognitively developed.

Besides, the parents wondering if the birthday matters so much are talking about "social development," "being the youngest," "being the smallest." Not phonemes. And I don't think you'd find anyone who would say that the skills you mentioned happen on such a tight schedule that a May vs. an August birthday is going to be a good predictor.

And so what if kindergarten is actually hard? School takes effort.

[Anonymous]

Fine, but if you're genetically predispositioned to be short (parents and grand parents are short) no amount of milk or red shirting is going to make up for this. Just get on with it. Kids are remarkable at adjusting and compensating. Allow them to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8:39 here. I was quoting the poster before me and assuming that by page 6 we're no longer discussing the OP, at least not solely.

IME, parents who focus on the academic aspects of preK and K tend to have kids who really need help with the social stuff.

Yes, I was too. I was referring to the Previous Poster who had a child in preK who had poor physical coordination. She said nothing about his social skills. It is clear that you are inferring poor social skills for some reason... the second part of your statement makes that clear.