Parents of HS students, why don't more kids do the 2+2 prgm to get into UVA/WM/VT (comm col first)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish I did this. I went to a prestigious pressure cooker university by DCUM standards and hated it. It was a bad fit all around. I ended up switching my major many times and transferring to a small no name college. I spent an extra year in college and never really had or enjoyed a true college experience. DH attended a community college and then a different small no name college.

The main lesson we learned is not to pressure kids into attending a school with the best name or the supposedly best program. We would support and encourage our children to attend a community college or a smaller school if that is what they think will be the best fit.

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. My DC would never, ever agree to even consider a CC. Maybe learned that from us, maybe not, but many many college-bound HS students simply won't do it.

2. Risk: what if the program changes only after a student enters CC?

3. Risk: If the goal is CC to Top-Public, the grade requirements aren't a cakewalk. The 2+2 program is not a guarantee and admission to the top-3 (UVA, W&M, VT) remains challenging.

4. Could be harmful to have CC on one's transcript, for some grad school admissions in particular.

Regarding point 2) The number of community college transfers are capped at UVA/Tech/William and Mary, but from the reported statistics, the number of admitted transfers is well under the cap. I imagine that if a large number of kids started transferring and taking spaces, the transfer requirements would change but this does not seem to happy, per point 1.

About point 3) My personal experience and my with family members is that if you were a good student, you would really crush the community college grades because many of the other students were not very committed or trying to get top grades because they were too busy working. However, if your student is not very motivated, Community college can be a big time trap because it is so inexpensive, it becomes entirely normal to take years and years to finish a two year degree. I would only allow my kids to go to community college if they were full time and not working to finish in 2 years.

About point 4) I did not see this effect and it certainly did not prevent my classmate at UVa, who had a 4.0 GPA at NoVa, from getting admitted at Harvard medical school

[Anonymous]

My dh and his brother both did 2 years at NVCC and then the guaranteed transfer. One chose UVA and continued on to Georgetown Law, the other chose GMU for computer science and is now a CTO.

[Anonymous]

My kids are typical kids socially (they have friends, like camp, etc) and I'd want them to have the typical college experience socially and academically. I'd push for the best 4-year program (w/good fit) they can get into.

[Anonymous]

Like everything else in life, it depends on the individual circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are typical kids socially (they have friends, like camp, etc) and I'd want them to have the typical college experience socially and academically. I'd push for the best 4-year program (w/good fit) they can get into.

fyi, plenty of kids at NOVA are "typical". You want a specific upper-middle class experience that mirrors your own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are typical kids socially (they have friends, like camp, etc) and I'd want them to have the typical college experience socially and academically. I'd push for the best 4-year program (w/good fit) they can get into.

fyi, plenty of kids at NOVA are "typical". You want a specific upper-middle class experience that mirrors your own.

Just pointing that out because OP said her kids weren't socially typical. The social aspect would *definitely* be important to my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it is really hard to get into UVA and Will/Mary and even Va Tech (for engineering), so why don't more kids do the 2 + 2 program to get guaranteed admission?

Is it all about the prestige and the pressure to go to a "real" college? Is it hard to meet the requirements for the guaranteed admission agreement? From what you've heard, what is the reason so few kids do this?

Parents, do you think it is better to go 4 yrs to JMU or Mary Washington or CNU and get a degree there vs. the 2 +2 program and getting a diploma from UVA/WM/VT?

Putting social aspect aside. To answer OP's problem: Meeting those requirements is not a cakewalk. In the most cases, but not all (such as late bloomers or cases of unexpected life events), if an NVCC student has the work ethic and acumen to get into a school like UVA through the 2+2 program, s/he would have gotten into a decent 4-year program. If a kid can excel in that program, it'd not be surprising a kid could also excel in JMU/Mary Washington/CNU and transfer to UVA later on.

I'd only do it if: 1.) I know my kid already has the work ethic to do what it takes to meet those requirements; and 2.) family is super strapped on money and there is no other reasonable 4-year program. And the reason "so few kids do this", because there ain't a lot of anecdotal examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it is really hard to get into UVA and Will/Mary and even Va Tech (for engineering), so why don't more kids do the 2 + 2 program to get guaranteed admission?

Is it all about the prestige and the pressure to go to a "real" college? Is it hard to meet the requirements for the guaranteed admission agreement? From what you've heard, what is the reason so few kids do this?

Parents, do you think it is better to go 4 yrs to JMU or Mary Washington or CNU and get a degree there vs. the 2 +2 program and getting a diploma from UVA/WM/VT?

One of the conclusions of the (most recent?) transfers report was that many students do not go on a 2+2 path but take longer both at CC and at the selected 4 yr school, therefore nullifying the cost savings.

The biggest barrier to actualizing Virginia’s affordability potential is the efficiency with which
students traverse the pathway that Virginia policy has established for students. Consider: A
single year’s extra enrollment can eliminate half the available savings in living costs alone. Thus,
the timelines most typically pursued by students represent a serious impediment to realizing
potential savings. A student taking three years at a community college plus another three years
at a four-year institution is the norm. Depending on a student’s particular circumstances, those
“normal” extra two years can effectively wipe out the potential savings available through
transfer.

http://www.schev.edu/docs/default-source/Reports-and-Studies/2016-reports/transferreport2016.pdf

[Anonymous]

OP here,

Thanks for all the detailed reports and for the personal accounts and thoughts on why it does/doesn't work. I appreciate that this DCUM discussion was actually productive!! (and didn't devolve into some of the usual debates).

This has really given me something to think about re: the feasibility of actually getting the UVA or WM degree in the end vs. getting a degree at another university/college.

[Anonymous]

OP here,

Thanks for all the detailed reports and for the personal accounts and thoughts on why it does/doesn't work. I appreciate that this DCUM discussion was actually productive!! (and didn't devolve into some of the usual debates).

This has really given me something to think about re: the feasibility of actually getting the UVA or WM degree in the end vs. getting a degree at another university/college.

[Anonymous]

If my child had wanted to do this, I would gladly have supported it. I think it is a great opportunity--but, in some cases, it is a trade off with no guarantees--unless you make very good grades!

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't want my child going to community college, because some kids get "stuck" in that limbo. Living at home, working part-time or full-time, hanging with friends from high school who didn't go away to college - school can take a backseat. And it's just not the same experience as going away to school for 4 years, living independently, not having mom/dad around. I want the full college experience to be her first priority for 4 years, like it was for me.

I understand if CC to University works better for some families, especially financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want my child going to community college, because some kids get "stuck" in that limbo. Living at home, working part-time or full-time, hanging with friends from high school who didn't go away to college - school can take a backseat. And it's just not the same experience as going away to school for 4 years, living independently, not having mom/dad around. I want the full college experience to be her first priority for 4 years, like it was for me.

I understand if CC to University works better for some families, especially financially.

I agree with this. I would be ok with CC if that's all we could afford or if DCs did poorly in HS and couldn't get into a decent college. But otherwise, there is a lot of value IMO in the on-campus experience. DH went to a local 4-yr university and lived at home the whole time and he missed out on a lot and recognizes that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can see doing this for financial reasons, but it is best to go and take the classes UVA (or other colleges) offer instead of classes that might be watered down for the lowest performing student. There are some great community college professors out there, but there are also people who just need a job and are being pressured by administration to pass as many students as they can.

Socially, it's going to be hard to break in at someplace like UVA if you don't go there as a freshman. For some students, they may not care and this may not matter at all, but for others it could lead to a miserable college experience.

~former faculty member at a community college in another state

Well, the two that I know who did this are doing great! One is getting a doctorate from a prestigious school and the other has a very good job in Nova. So, they must have managed the adjustment somehow.

Lots of students can make the adjustment, others are not self starting or not as academically inclined and are dragged down. Other students do well academically, but never get involved socially. Depends on what the students and the parents want to get out of college.