how to deny maternity leave extension

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pathetic. I hope you have all daughters and one day have to listen to how they are forced to choose between returning to work too early and leaving a tiny infant in daycare or with a stranger and quitting their jobs and becoming 100 percent dependent on their husband.

You're a horrible human being and obviously have little respect for the gender who brings life into this world. Guarantee you that you'd be all about providing military leave for men who elect to go and blow people up abroad.

So when is it not too early? 12 weeks paid leave seems pretty good to me. Having a child is a choice, so as an adult you should plan accordingly for that day that you need to come back to work, if that is even what she plans to do. Who really knows. Businesses wouldn't stay in business if every woman came back when they felt ready. The only people that should be supporting her now is her partner, family and friends.

If it's a choice then are you okay with most educated women being forced to stay at home with kids due to a lack of sufficient leave? Are you okay with most children in this country being born by women who so poor that dropping out of the workforce doesn't matter? Are you okay with a significant percentage of the able bodied citizens not working and paying taxes? because there are serious implications to people viewing having children as a true "choice." If you think it's a choice then you should also believe that many illnesses are choices and that retirement is a choice.

Again, what would qualify as "sufficient leave" and how can every parent get sufficient leave without it being a burden on business?

Children being born in poverty is due to more issues than just employer based leave. It's mostly lack of education and having children at a young age, but lets blame it all on businesses if you want.

And no, I won't equate bringing a child into the world as the same as having an illness or retirement since they are actually completely different life situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would deny it. I'm a fed and returned from maternity leave (unpaid 12 weeks) in October and wasn't allowed to use any leave in November or December so that my coworkers could take Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. They'd had to cover for me for 3 months and weren't allowed to take leave then. I didn't have any leave anyways to take holidays, but it was depressing working on Christmas Eve and the Friday after Thanksgiving knowing my 3 month old was in daycare. It is what it is. I think OP is very reasonable.

12 weeks for a fed seems like a short time.

I'm a fed and I'm provided with 20 weeks leave. 8 weeks paid sick leave to recover from my c section (I have accumulated the sick leave). Then I invoke FMLA for 12 weeks unpaid leave for bonding with my child (12 weeks FMLA may be used within the year). This was verified by my HR department and I read the applicable OPM manual on leave. I was fully aware of my leave entitlements before taking leave and discussing said leave with my supervisor.

I'm a long term fed and no one I know has taken longer than 12 weeks. We aren't highly paid and few can afford more than 12 weeks unpaid.

FMLA for bonding with the child does not need to be used at once. It must, however, be used within a year of the child's birth. Want every Friday or Monday off to bond with your child? Want a week in March or April to bond with your child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let her have the time off.

it sounds like the problem is that she mentioned using her vacation time,
would you feel the same way if it was unpaid leave? In that case, would she still need the same type of approval as vacation? Can you hire someone temporarily until she returns?

Also, have you ever had a Baby?

Responses like this are so clueless. Where is the line? She already got FAR more than most women get even at big companies, let alone at a small company. What if she wanted 6 months off?

Have you ever had a baby is sucj an insulting question. This is about business, not creating a social safety net for new mothers.

Then what big company? As a professional, most companies offer 12 weeks now. I've been in banking, finance and law. I now work at a nonprofit and we even give 12 weeks. It's a crapshoot. Women in the US work less than in other developed countries. We need women to grow the economy. One of the reasons women work less is b/c in the US has such poor maternity leave policies. It was literally on the WSJ podcast today.

Now, when my employees come back, I don't want to hear about child care issues. I really don't. I give the time needed upfront, but my expectation is that when you are back, you are back.

You live and work in a bubble.

I work at a big law firm in DC. I got zero paid leave.

This can't possibly be true. Or at least it's not really big law. I had 18 weeks paid. I know others who got more.

[Anonymous]

Here is what could be going on, based on what I experienced myself and knowing other new mothers on maternity leaves. Even when you know you have to go back to work, because your family will not be able to pay the bills if you do not, and child care is all lined up, there is a primal and desperate terror at the thought of leaving your infant child for so many hours each day.

This employee may understand on a rational level that such a last minute request to use vacation time is unprofessional and inconsiderate.

However, emotionally, she may be searching for any way out of having to part from her baby. Please keep this in mind when denying the extension, and do it both kindly and firmly. Maybe offer half days the first week back, or mention that there is a pumping area reserved for her to use.

Be as supportive as you can for what is an exhausting and time and difficult transition for many mothers. There is just something gut wrenching about the anxiety of managing the transition back to work, for many new moms.

[Anonymous]

Wow! That's awesome that you offer 12 weeks paid at a small business. I work for a small business and we only get 2 weeks paid. The rest has to be our PTO or taken as unpaid leave. We also can only have a max of 160 hrs PTO each year, so the max amount of paid time a woman has to use after giving birth is 6 weeks.

We've only had one woman return after her 6 weeks. The others choose to stay home and quit after using their paid time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

This is missing the big picture. What's the cost to lose this employee? Surely it is worth letting someone take vacation to take care of a newborn so that they remain an employee and continue working for the company. Now maybe you don't value this employee? If you don't then say no.

Fwiw this is why we need paid leave policies. Op shouldn't be forced to make such an awful decision and the poor woman shouldn't be forced to return to work at 12 weeks in order to keep her job. We need to stop having babies for men until this ridiculousness stops.

What is the cost for the others? It's the middle of the summer. Other people may have kids (or not) and want to go on vacation. Her leave can't be covered indefinitely - end of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would deny it. I'm a fed and returned from maternity leave (unpaid 12 weeks) in October and wasn't allowed to use any leave in November or December so that my coworkers could take Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. They'd had to cover for me for 3 months and weren't allowed to take leave then. I didn't have any leave anyways to take holidays, but it was depressing working on Christmas Eve and the Friday after Thanksgiving knowing my 3 month old was in daycare. It is what it is. I think OP is very reasonable.

12 weeks for a fed seems like a short time.

I'm a fed and I'm provided with 20 weeks leave. 8 weeks paid sick leave to recover from my c section (I have accumulated the sick leave). Then I invoke FMLA for 12 weeks unpaid leave for bonding with my child (12 weeks FMLA may be used within the year). This was verified by my HR department and I read the applicable OPM manual on leave. I was fully aware of my leave entitlements before taking leave and discussing said leave with my supervisor.

I'm a long term fed and no one I know has taken longer than 12 weeks. We aren't highly paid and few can afford more than 12 weeks unpaid.

We had two people take 6 months in my office. I took 16 weeks myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

This is missing the big picture. What's the cost to lose this employee? Surely it is worth letting someone take vacation to take care of a newborn so that they remain an employee and continue working for the company. Now maybe you don't value this employee? If you don't then say no.

Fwiw this is why we need paid leave policies. Op shouldn't be forced to make such an awful decision and the poor woman shouldn't be forced to return to work at 12 weeks in order to keep her job. We need to stop having babies for men until this ridiculousness stops.

What is the cost for the others? It's the middle of the summer. Other people may have kids (or not) and want to go on vacation. Her leave can't be covered indefinitely - end of story.

Yes, agree - the big picture includes all employees in the company, including the ones who covered and were stretched thin. The ones who covered may also be valued, and OP knows that they will start looking if they are not allowed to take a planned vacation to cover for an employee who they have already covered for for 12 weeks.

Also, parenting is a long-range game. Parents still want that time off to spend with their children even after maternity leave is a faded memory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

This is missing the big picture. What's the cost to lose this employee? Surely it is worth letting someone take vacation to take care of a newborn so that they remain an employee and continue working for the company. Now maybe you don't value this employee? If you don't then say no.

Fwiw this is why we need paid leave policies. Op shouldn't be forced to make such an awful decision and the poor woman shouldn't be forced to return to work at 12 weeks in order to keep her job. We need to stop having babies for men until this ridiculousness stops.

The problem with your thinking is that you are only considering the employee on maternity leave. There are other employees -- potentially parents -- that have to be considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let her have the time off.

it sounds like the problem is that she mentioned using her vacation time,
would you feel the same way if it was unpaid leave? In that case, would she still need the same type of approval as vacation? Can you hire someone temporarily until she returns?

Also, have you ever had a Baby?

Responses like this are so clueless. Where is the line? She already got FAR more than most women get even at big companies, let alone at a small company. What if she wanted 6 months off?

Have you ever had a baby is sucj an insulting question. This is about business, not creating a social safety net for new mothers.

Then what big company? As a professional, most companies offer 12 weeks now. I've been in banking, finance and law. I now work at a nonprofit and we even give 12 weeks. It's a crapshoot. Women in the US work less than in other developed countries. We need women to grow the economy. One of the reasons women work less is b/c in the US has such poor maternity leave policies. It was literally on the WSJ podcast today.

Now, when my employees come back, I don't want to hear about child care issues. I really don't. I give the time needed upfront, but my expectation is that when you are back, you are back.

You live and work in a bubble.

I work at a big law firm in DC. I got zero paid leave.

This can't possibly be true. Or at least it's not really big law. I had 18 weeks paid. I know others who got more.

Staff position?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow! That's awesome that you offer 12 weeks paid at a small business. I work for a small business and we only get 2 weeks paid. The rest has to be our PTO or taken as unpaid leave. We also can only have a max of 160 hrs PTO each year, so the max amount of paid time a woman has to use after giving birth is 6 weeks.

We've only had one woman return after her 6 weeks. The others choose to stay home and quit after using their paid time.

...and can you really blame them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

This is missing the big picture. What's the cost to lose this employee? Surely it is worth letting someone take vacation to take care of a newborn so that they remain an employee and continue working for the company. Now maybe you don't value this employee? If you don't then say no.

Fwiw this is why we need paid leave policies. Op shouldn't be forced to make such an awful decision and the poor woman shouldn't be forced to return to work at 12 weeks in order to keep her job. We need to stop having babies for men until this ridiculousness stops.

The problem with your thinking is that you are only considering the employee on maternity leave. There are other employees -- potentially parents -- that have to be considered.

Right. Well every other developed country has figured out a way to address maternity leave and I'm sure we can too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let her have the time off.

it sounds like the problem is that she mentioned using her vacation time,
would you feel the same way if it was unpaid leave? In that case, would she still need the same type of approval as vacation? Can you hire someone temporarily until she returns?

Also, have you ever had a Baby?

Responses like this are so clueless. Where is the line? She already got FAR more than most women get even at big companies, let alone at a small company. What if she wanted 6 months off?

Have you ever had a baby is sucj an insulting question. This is about business, not creating a social safety net for new mothers.

Then what big company? As a professional, most companies offer 12 weeks now. I've been in banking, finance and law. I now work at a nonprofit and we even give 12 weeks. It's a crapshoot. Women in the US work less than in other developed countries. We need women to grow the economy. One of the reasons women work less is b/c in the US has such poor maternity leave policies. It was literally on the WSJ podcast today.

Now, when my employees come back, I don't want to hear about child care issues. I really don't. I give the time needed upfront, but my expectation is that when you are back, you are back.

You live and work in a bubble.

I work at a big law firm in DC. I got zero paid leave.

This can't possibly be true. Or at least it's not really big law. I had 18 weeks paid. I know others who got more.

My BigLaw firm offered 16 weeks paid, but you had to have worked there a year for the benefit, at least when I took mine. I would be surprised that a large law firm offered zero leave to someone who met a minimum service requirement, unless there was an HR offering but lawyers were discouraged from taking it and threatened with a career hit.

[Anonymous]

Would you prefer her to find another job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what could be going on, based on what I experienced myself and knowing other new mothers on maternity leaves. Even when you know you have to go back to work, because your family will not be able to pay the bills if you do not, and child care is all lined up, there is a primal and desperate terror at the thought of leaving your infant child for so many hours each day.

This employee may understand on a rational level that such a last minute request to use vacation time is unprofessional and inconsiderate.

However, emotionally, she may be searching for any way out of having to part from her baby. Please keep this in mind when denying the extension, and do it both kindly and firmly. Maybe offer half days the first week back, or mention that there is a pumping area reserved for her to use.

Be as supportive as you can for what is an exhausting and time and difficult transition for many mothers. There is just something gut wrenching about the anxiety of managing the transition back to work, for many new moms.

Maybe for you. I skipped back to work.