No Matter Who You Are Tell Me When You Think Our Current Form of Government Became Dysfunctional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here thank you all for your fascinating and educated responses. I asked upthread if anyone voted for trump to expose dysfunction but nobody really answered the question outright. However both sides have put forth great opinions and it really helps to further the discussion of how we fix this.

Bring back the fairness doctrine is almost consensus.

The Fairness Doctrine was never a law, it was merely an FCC regulation. It made sense when only a very few stations held FCC licenses. Now, anyone can go online and say or hear anything without an FCC license. In 2008, candidate Barack Obama said he opposed it. There would be no possible way to enforce a Fairness Doctrine now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was it with Nixon? Jimmy Carter? Trickle Down Economics? The New Deal under FDR? Hillary, Bill, W, James Madison?

This is a great question My memory is the hatred for Bill Clinton right out of the box, maybe because of don't ask, don't tell. But the right had genuine hatred there - Richard Vugurie and the direct mail campaigns against him. That's when it started in my recollection.

A lot of it was specifically directed at Hillary. She was the first First Lady to hold an advanced degree and have a successful career of her own, and she openly bristled at playing the traditional role of FLOTUS.

I grew up in the Midwest, and she was the constant butt of misogynistic jokes. I remember bumper stickers like, "I can't stand the President...and her husband" (or something like that). She was reviled. And while she had some rough corners, the only tangible reason was the fact that she subverted gender expectations.

You can't have serious conversations about how the decline of the primacy of white, males in society is what has opened up so many rifts in America since we haven't really addressed the fallout in a meaningful way, but Occam's Razor applied to historical events would make this the most obvious explanation.

Maybe, but I formed a very negative impression of her early on when she fired the White House travel staff. They were non-partisan and didn't do anything wrong to be put out on the street. She said she didn't have anything to do with it. Then the secrecy with her West Wing working group on healthcare. Sorry - I was open minded on her but I think the lying and penchant for secrecy gave her a bad reputation that has persisted ever since.

Do you have a similar issue with the secret Senate working group on healthcare right now?

You mean like the secret Senate did when Pelosi rammed Obamacare down our throats? "We have to pass so you can see what's in it?"

You mean the 18-month long process which included dozens of open hearings and hundreds of amendments to the legislation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tipping point? I think after the 2010 Midterms when any semblance of trying to enact policy went out the window in Congress. Since then, US government has been in complete dysfunction mode.

Key Contributing factors?
- Post-Reconstruction Era backlash and enactment of Jim Crow
- McCarthyism
- Southern Strategy
- Grover Norquist anti-tax extremism
- Contract with America and rise of Congressional Republican brinksmanship
- Iraq vote as litmus test for Democrats
- Citizens United and rise of TEA Party (esp. post Obamacare Town Hall demonstrations)

Ultimately, though, I think every single thing boils down to the lingering unresolved issues from slavery. Not the lingering racism which is rampant in most Western democracies, but many unresolved issues post slavery. While I think most Americans are unconflicted about the moral benefits of ending slavery, we have never fully grappled with the philosophical meaning of Federalism from a social or economic standpoint. Racism is part of the legacy, but so is fighting over the welfare state, corporatism, wealth inequality, etc.

Agree with much of this and was going to bring up Grover Norquist specifically. But I think it started in 1994, and turned worse in 2010. Gingrich becoming Speaker and the crowd that was elected that year was the beginning of the end of bipartisan cooperation in Congress.

I saw a quote that Gingrich was to politics what napalm was to warfare. Apt.

OMG so true. Special place in hell for that man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

Naw, they tried to impeach Clinton before that. I know solid Dems BTW who expressed a lack of respect for Clinton due to his behavior in office. I remember one of my Lib friends saying "how am I going to explain this to my daughter?"

Bill really screwed this one up. If he had handled it the same way that Reagan handled Iran/Contra and told the truth from the outset the story would have blown over in a couple of weeks. But he kept lying about it and told his secretary to lie about it. So he was impeached and disbarred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

Naw, they tried to impeach Clinton before that. I know solid Dems BTW who expressed a lack of respect for Clinton due to his behavior in office. I remember one of my Lib friends saying "how am I going to explain this to my daughter?"

Bill really screwed this one up. If he had handled it the same way that Reagan handled Iran/Contra and told the truth from the outset the story would have blown over in a couple of weeks. But he kept lying about it and told his secretary to lie about it. So he was impeached and disbarred.

Kind of like what's happening now (substituting Don for Bill)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

Naw, they tried to impeach Clinton before that. I know solid Dems BTW who expressed a lack of respect for Clinton due to his behavior in office. I remember one of my Lib friends saying "how am I going to explain this to my daughter?"

Bill really screwed this one up. If he had handled it the same way that Reagan handled Iran/Contra and told the truth from the outset the story would have blown over in a couple of weeks. But he kept lying about it and told his secretary to lie about it. So he was impeached and disbarred.

LOL Thats not what little Ronnie Alzheimer's did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

Naw, they tried to impeach Clinton before that. I know solid Dems BTW who expressed a lack of respect for Clinton due to his behavior in office. I remember one of my Lib friends saying "how am I going to explain this to my daughter?"

Bill really screwed this one up. If he had handled it the same way that Reagan handled Iran/Contra and told the truth from the outset the story would have blown over in a couple of weeks. But he kept lying about it and told his secretary to lie about it. So he was impeached and disbarred.

LOL Thats not what little Ronnie Alzheimer's did.

When the media stopped looking for facts and started reporting opinion as news. The 2016 election is a glaring example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

Naw, they tried to impeach Clinton before that. I know solid Dems BTW who expressed a lack of respect for Clinton due to his behavior in office. I remember one of my Lib friends saying "how am I going to explain this to my daughter?"

Bill really screwed this one up. If he had handled it the same way that Reagan handled Iran/Contra and told the truth from the outset the story would have blown over in a couple of weeks. But he kept lying about it and told his secretary to lie about it. So he was impeached and disbarred.

LOL Thats not what little Ronnie Alzheimer's did.

Yes, he fully cooperated with the investigation which is why he was never impeached, notwithstanding that the Democrats controlled the House.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

Naw, they tried to impeach Clinton before that. I know solid Dems BTW who expressed a lack of respect for Clinton due to his behavior in office. I remember one of my Lib friends saying "how am I going to explain this to my daughter?"

Bill really screwed this one up. If he had handled it the same way that Reagan handled Iran/Contra and told the truth from the outset the story would have blown over in a couple of weeks. But he kept lying about it and told his secretary to lie about it. So he was impeached and disbarred.

Kind of like what's happening now (substituting Don for Bill)?

Pp here and yes, Trump is acting exactly like Bill. Larry Tribe has heroically defended Bill by saying that one cannot compare lying about a blow job and lying about obstruction. Politically that's true, but legally, perjury is perjury. It makes no difference what one lied about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Pp here and yes, Trump is acting exactly like Bill. Larry Tribe has heroically defended Bill by saying that one cannot compare lying about a blow job and lying about obstruction. Politically that's true, but legally, perjury is perjury. It makes no difference what one lied about.

But impeachment isn't really a legal proceeding, it is a political proceeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here thank you all for your fascinating and educated responses. I asked upthread if anyone voted for trump to expose dysfunction but nobody really answered the question outright. However both sides have put forth great opinions and it really helps to further the discussion of how we fix this.

I'm the democrat who thought it started with 9/11/W rhetoric and no way in hell did I do that. I am also a Democrat that thinks Bill Clinton isn't that much better than Trump when it comes to women but there is no way in hell I would ever vote for someone who brags about grabbing women's genitalia no matter what party they represented, who they would put on the supreme court or to expose any supposed dysfunction. I have a daughter and I am a woman.

[Anonymous]

I was cleaning out my email a few weeks ago and came across an email from 2008 talking about how that election is the one that caused me to really hate politics and government. It was probably just the culmination of the previous few decades, but there was a hatred in that campaigning that seemed new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I'm a democrat but feel like the lack of inherent respect for the office of President started with W.

That's when we started painting each other with extreme brushes. So honestly probably 9/11

LMFAO. You must not have been around during the Clinton administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When Reagan did away with the Fairness Doctrine. This gave birth to Fox, a right wing propaganda network. The people are misinformed and tricked on Fox and don't know fact from fiction.

And MSNBC and CNN don't misinform those who don't follow your vision lock, stock and barrel? Please, people migrate to the news source that best supports their viewpoints. You are not different in your selection of MSNBC. GTFU.

I'm so sick of this "liberal media" argument. No, actually, intelligent people read a variety of sources and think critically. They are able to distinguish between talking points, opinions, and fact. And just b/c facts don't favor your argument doesn't mean there is "bias." Climate change being a prime example. The vase majority of scientists agree it's happening and why. But the flat earth crowd doesn't like it so it's "fake news" or "biased." And they are given equal time to say so in the media. When their position is not valid. All because of kowtowing by media to not appear too liberal. It's revolting.

I blame the spiral downwards in politics to the disgusting group on the right during the Clinton administration. They went in to those years aiming to bring as much chaos as possible (read the accounts of the calls Bill C. received prior to running from politicians on the right.) Clinton had some major personal flaws, for sure. But, the vitriol, the bullshit investigations (some warranted, much was not), the right lean on social issues . . . those folks made people feel ok with their prejudices, nastiness, and smear campaigns as a method of doing business. Gringrich and his ilk are the worst of this country. This continues today with Ryan, Pence, McConnell and others. No.Shred of integrity. It's win at all costs. Party before country. I loathe every single one of of the and will now be a single ticket D voter until I die.

[Anonymous]

I blame Lee Atwater.