Williams vs. Carleton vs. Middlebury vs Pomona vs Swarthmore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, everyone, for the advice and perspective. Just some updates:

She has crossed out Haverford and Middlebury as they lack a cognitive science program and more than a few courses in them. She would like to have that option available. Though it does make her sad, especially for Middlebury, whose campus and location she loved! While Amherst also lacks the department, it is close by U-Mass for the opportunity to do research or take upper-level/graduate courses.

She will be visiting Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona, Williams, and Carleton for their admitted students days or another time around then to get a sense of the fit. She did visit these schools and loved them all for different reasons, but now it's time to do an overnight stay. She wishes she could take things from each school and combine them- Williams's tutorials and winter study, Swarthmore's arboretum and honors program, Amherst's open curriculum and music culture, Pomona's resources and diversity, and Carleton's nurturing community and humble students- but alas. All these schools have unique strengths and highlights, and at the end of the day, anyone who goes to any of them will have a really wonderful undergraduate experience. We can always look to the grass is greener perspective or try to parse about comparative differences, but no school can be perfect, and you learn to make the most of whatever you pick despite its imperfections.

She linked me to this really human article written by a Pomona student: http://voices.pomona.edu/2015/04/what-pomona-isnt/ I think, even with its Pomona emphasis, it's an important read for anyone who's gotten into their dream schools and has built up on a culture of hype and expectation. Here's an excerpt:

"After all, colleges are essentially just large communities of intelligent people who have no idea about anything but continue to do the best they can.

Because of this, it almost doesn’t matter where you choose to go. What matters is you.

No college is going to tell you how to discover yourself, or what that even means. No college will be able to fix your problems for you, whether they be financial or social or personal. No college, regardless of how many resources or opportunities it boasts, will single-handedly change your life for the better; just because you get here doesn’t mean you’re “set.” Whatever you expect of Pomona, or of any college, be realistic. And be forgiving."

I don't know you OP or your child. I went to Swarthmore. At least when I was there, you'd have to be near genius or Rhodes Scholar caliber to make it through the honors program. It's that rigorous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swarthmore location I would give a big C minus. I grew up a block from there in Springfield, Delaware County, Pa. I could not wait to leave home and get out of there! There is no college town and it sits in Swarthmore proper which is a bunch of old houses near my hometown of Springfield Delaware County. I would describe the area as 'sleepy' and boring and lacking culture and diversity. Sorry Swarthmore!

That's a fair opinion, but Swarthmore being in a beautiful suburb 20 minutes by septa (light rail) ride to Philly and even closer to nature does not make its location a C in my book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know you OP or your child. I went to Swarthmore. At least when I was there, you'd have to be near genius or Rhodes Scholar caliber to make it through the honors program. It's that rigorous.

It's rigorous, but not too many participate. Only 18% participated last year (http://swarthmorephoenix.com/2015/11/05/decline-in-humanities-majors-causes-concern-for-faculty-students/), while Swarthmore would like to maintain 30%. Also, Swarthmore is no longer the caliber of the institution it once was. It used to have the second or third highest SATs of any college in the country, but now it is more like 20th. Lots of competition from national universities and other LACs, which are more well-balanced and relevant in a tough job market. Swarthmore's yield is quite poor as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know you OP or your child. I went to Swarthmore. At least when I was there, you'd have to be near genius or Rhodes Scholar caliber to make it through the honors program. It's that rigorous.

It's rigorous, but not too many participate. Only 18% participated last year (http://swarthmorephoenix.com/2015/11/05/decline-in-humanities-majors-causes-concern-for-faculty-students/), while Swarthmore would like to maintain 30%. Also, Swarthmore is no longer the caliber of the institution it once was. It used to have the second or third highest SATs of any college in the country, but now it is more like 20th. Lots of competition from national universities and other LACs, which are more well-balanced and relevant in a tough job market. Swarthmore's yield is quite poor as well.

When I was there, I believe only 3-4 people per major were in the honors program, less than 5% of the student population.

As for the yield - I'm not shocked at the low yield. I think a lot of people apply for the name, but then drop out when they realize how nerdy and rigorous the place is. I don't care to comment about SAT scores because I think it's a BS metric.

[Anonymous]

About Carleton location - Google tells me it is 52 minutes to !st Avenue, the club Prince made famous. There are many fun places in that part of Minneapolis. If you ever have time to get away.

[Anonymous]

For all those curious, she committed to Carleton! She fell in love with that place and its people most out of all her choices. She found the professors to be particularly engaging, and she received a lot of communication from folks at Carleton encouraging her to take advantage of the opportunities there. She was hesitant about turning down W/P/S due to perceived prestige, but she ultimately realized it was about where she fit in best.

We're so excited! Yay!

[Anonymous]

That's great!

[Anonymous]

Great thread thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all those curious, she committed to Carleton! She fell in love with that place and its people most out of all her choices. She found the professors to be particularly engaging, and she received a lot of communication from folks at Carleton encouraging her to take advantage of the opportunities there. She was hesitant about turning down W/P/S due to perceived prestige, but she ultimately realized it was about where she fit in best.

We're so excited! Yay!

Carleton is a damned good school. And it is nice for our kids to see another part of the country. Well done!

[Anonymous]

Put all the pieces together to make one perfect SLAC

[Anonymous]

Learned so much about SLACs in this thread. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I loved Middlebury when I went and know recent grads who loved it even more. From my POV, the schools to think about are Middlebury, Williams and Pomona.

Williams has a stronger reputation than Midd, not doubt. But Middlebury is bigger at 2400 students v. 2000. It has great facilities including its own ski mountain golf course and a world famous language program. Burlington, Vt. is nearby and Montreal is about 2 hours away. I still have a large group of college friends, some of them very close friends, and I graduated a long time ago.

Pomona is a fantastic school, co-located with the other Claremont schools, which is cool. I hear great things about it but never been there.

[Anonymous]

Yahoo! I want to Carleton and I, too, fell in love when I visited. It's a unique place and doesn't have the same preppy east coast crew that some of these schools have (which some folks will be happy about and others won't!). I think she'll love it! She will have to work hard, too.

[Anonymous]

@17:17

If Williams has a stronger reputation than Midd, how would you describe Midd's reputation?

Just curious.

[Anonymous]

@17:17

If Williams has a stronger reputation than Midd, how would you describe Midd's reputation?

Just curious.

Williams ranks higher - often highest on best small college lists.

Middlebury ranks in the top five usually. Williams and Midd draw from the exact same group of students.

Middlebury and Williams each accept about 16%/17% of applicants for admission.