Williams vs. Carleton vs. Middlebury vs Pomona vs Swarthmore
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
Sorry, but this is totally incorrect. Carleton produces more PhDs than any school in the country. Its presence and name recognition in academic circles is unsurpassed. |
Anonymous
My DH went to Carleton and said to tell her Pomona  .
|
Anonymous
|
Swarthmore graduates are really impressive.
I'd pick Williams or Swarthmore, unless California was calling her name. |
Anonymous
| and congrats too this person. wow! |
Anonymous
|
When it comes down to 7 of the top 10 LACs, it has to come down to factors other than academics and outcomes, because they are all equals. Swarthmore and Carleton are the PhD producers because they attract a student body interested in attending graduate school, but if that same student went to another top LAC, their opportunity to attend graduate school would be in no way diminished.
I've done some research, and it seems like Pomona and Carleton students just seem the happiest with their experience. There are 2 sites detailing student perspectives she can look at- RateMyProfessors (survey respondents give a grade from 1 to 5 on many factors) and Niche.com (gives a grade from A to F on many categories). Here's a quick summary of each school-- Pomona: ranked 2nd among LACs (Bowdoin is 1st, for those curious) A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors, Student Life, Dorms, Facilities, Food; A in Safety, B+ in Location; B in Party Scene; B- in Athletics 4.9 Reputation, 4.4 Internet, 4.7 Opportunity, 4.6 Clubs, 4.8 Happiness, 4.7 Location, 4.6 Food, 4.8 Facilities, 4.3 Social Scene Williams: ranked 7th among LACs A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors; A- in Athletics, Dorms, Student Life, Facilities, Food; B in Party Scene and Safety; C+ in Location 5.0 Reputation, 4.2 Internet, 4.7 Opportunity, 4.2 Clubs, 4.4 Happiness, 3.8 Location, 3.8 Food, 4.8 Facilities, 3.9 Social Scene Middlebury: ranked 13th among LACs A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors, Campus Food; A- in Athletics, Dorms, Student Life, Facilities; B in Party Scene; C in Safety; C- in Location 4.8 Reputation, 4.3 Internet, 4.4 Opportunity, 4.1 Clubs, 4.9 Happiness, 4.1 Location, 4.4 Food, 4.5 Facilities, 3.9 Social Scene Amherst: ranked 8th among LACs A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors; A- in Athletics, Dorms, Student Life, Location, Safety; B- in Facilities, Party Scene; C in Food 5.0 Reputation, 4.0 Internet, 4.7 Opportunity, 3.6 Clubs, 4.2 Happiness, 4.0 Location, 3.0 Food, 4.3 Facilities, 3.3 Social Scene Swarthmore: ranked 14th among LACs A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors; A- in Dorms, Student Life; B in Safety; B- in Facilities, Party Scene, Athletics; C+ in Food; C in Location 4.9 Reputation, 3.7 Internet, 4.4 Opportunity, 4.4 Clubs, 4.4 Happiness, 4.3 Location, 3.2 Food, 4.6 Facilities, 3.9 Social Scene Carleton: ranked 5th among LACs A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors, Student Life; A in Facilities, Safety; A- in Dorms; B+ in Location, Party Scene, Safety, Food; B- in Athletics 4.8 Reputation, 4.0 Internet, 4.5 Opportunity, 4.3 Clubs, 4.8 Happiness, 3.9 Location, 3.5 Food, 4.6 Facilities, 4.4 Social Scene Haverford: ranked 10th among LACs A+ in Academics, Diversity, Professors; A in Location; A- in Student Life; B+ in Facilities, Safety; B in Dorms, Party Scene; B- in Athletics, Food 4.8 Reputation, 3.8 Internet, 4.1 Opportunity, 4.2 Clubs, 4.4 Happiness, 4.4 Location, 3.2 Food, 4.5 Facilities, 4.0 Social Scene My vote would be for Pomona- best amenities, best location/weather, and has the 5 excellent Claremont Colleges for access to opportunities that you can't get anywhere. Screw what USNews has to say. |
Anonymous
I wouldn't put a lot of weight in those rankings from RateMyProfessor. I went to Swarthmore and I'm bewildered at the "B" in safety. In the 4 years I was there, we didn't have a single crime beyond maybe some petty theft. As to the "C" for location - that makes no sense when you consider that Haverford got an "A" and Swarthmore and Haverford are basically located in Philly suburbs. So what do you do - go visit the places and see for yourself! |
Anonymous
p.s. The "B-" in Facilities also makes zero sense. Swarthmore has amazing facilities; the campus is an arboretum, there are multiple lounges with coffee shops, the libraries are well equipped, and the gym is really big. There are multiple outdoor classrooms to use in nice weather. The campus is also basically 30 acres of arboretum abutting 300 acres of woods with a creek, so there is nice hiking. On top of that, because the school is small, there's no wait when you want to use the pool, or play tennis or racquetball. |
Anonymous
| A "C-" for Middlebury's location doesn't make sense. Everyone I went there with was there in part because of the location. On the other hand, if you were surprised to discover that Middlebury College is in Middlebury, Vt., I'm not sure why you would go in the first place...(or how you got in.) |
Anonymous
Ugh. You must be one of the people who actually pays attention when "Niche" purports to evaluate schools based on statistically worthless surveys designed only to give Niche an opportunity to spread its own name. |
Anonymous
| As a Carleton alum, I think it depends on who she wants to be around. I avoided the east coast colleges and went to MN because I wanted to be around friendlier & less pretentious students than those with whom I attended an east coast prep school. Most of my classmates were from the top of their classes in midwestern schools, with some kids who were from Hawaii, Florida, CA, etc., but wanted something different. So the school attracts a different crowd than the lax-players or alternative kids from the east coast. Pomona sounds awesome but I didn't consider going that far away, so I can't speak to the school at all. (I did visit every single one of the others on your list but didn't apply to any.) Your child can thrive at and after any of these places, so she should try to visit and talk to alums and just pick what makes her happy. The ranking stuff is just noise (but if she thinks it's critical, she's probably not a Carleton-type, imho). |
Anonymous
| I think this survey has little to do with objective factors but is an interesting gauge of subjective factors. Differences could be based on expectations. Perhaps Haverford students do more with the location (i.e.: interact more with city or other local schools) than Swarthmore students. Pomona and Carleton are often rated as having happy students and these findings are consistent. As for the actual topic, sounds like she's making a great choice with Pomona. |
Anonymous
| Swarthmore location I would give a big C minus. I grew up a block from there in Springfield, Delaware County, Pa. I could not wait to leave home and get out of there! There is no college town and it sits in Swarthmore proper which is a bunch of old houses near my hometown of Springfield Delaware County. I would describe the area as 'sleepy' and boring and lacking culture and diversity. Sorry Swarthmore! |
Anonymous
|
Of course the survey is a little off. You can see some huge differences between how facilities and locations are perceived in the same school. That's the nature of surveys, and you don't put so much weight in them because of that reliability. But I think it's telling when a school consistently does good.
I figured out why there are such big differences. RMP'S location asks for the whole area, hence why Swarthmore does much better there than in Niche (since it has access to Philly). Niche asks about the immediate area, so just about every shcool does worse..because let's face it, Claremont or Williamstown or Middlebury get boring after a few weeks. RMP's facilities are based off campus beauty..and Swarthmore is as beautiful as it gets. Niche is based off not just beauty, but how renovated or run-down the facilities are on the inside. I've been to Swarthmore and Amherst. A lot of their buildings are not in good shape. Safety on Niche is not just based on how safe the campus is and its surrounding areas, but drug culture and administrative strictness as well. I wouldn't call actual student perspectives worthless. Niche and RMP are written by students, and in my experience reading them, I don't see comments that are widely off about each school. It's usually really prestigious schools like Harvard and Stanford that get sabotaged by people who don't go there. My recommendation is, look at the actual perspectives written by the students. The numbers and grades give a quick weight to these colleges in a variety of categories based on those surveys, but it'd be stupid to pick on them alone because it says nothing about the highlights and cultures of these schools. |
Anonymous
|
Thanks, everyone, for the advice and perspective. Just some updates:
She has crossed out Haverford and Middlebury as they lack a cognitive science program and more than a few courses in them. She would like to have that option available. Though it does make her sad, especially for Middlebury, whose campus and location she loved! While Amherst also lacks the department, it is close by U-Mass for the opportunity to do research or take upper-level/graduate courses. She will be visiting Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona, Williams, and Carleton for their admitted students days or another time around then to get a sense of the fit. She did visit these schools and loved them all for different reasons, but now it's time to do an overnight stay. She wishes she could take things from each school and combine them- Williams's tutorials and winter study, Swarthmore's arboretum and honors program, Amherst's open curriculum and music culture, Pomona's resources and diversity, and Carleton's nurturing community and humble students- but alas. All these schools have unique strengths and highlights, and at the end of the day, anyone who goes to any of them will have a really wonderful undergraduate experience. We can always look to the grass is greener perspective or try to parse about comparative differences, but no school can be perfect, and you learn to make the most of whatever you pick despite its imperfections. She linked me to this really human article written by a Pomona student: http://voices.pomona.edu/2015/04/what-pomona-isnt/ I think, even with its Pomona emphasis, it's an important read for anyone who's gotten into their dream schools and has built up on a culture of hype and expectation. Here's an excerpt: "After all, colleges are essentially just large communities of intelligent people who have no idea about anything but continue to do the best they can. Because of this, it almost doesn’t matter where you choose to go. What matters is you. No college is going to tell you how to discover yourself, or what that even means. No college will be able to fix your problems for you, whether they be financial or social or personal. No college, regardless of how many resources or opportunities it boasts, will single-handedly change your life for the better; just because you get here doesn’t mean you’re “set.” Whatever you expect of Pomona, or of any college, be realistic. And be forgiving." |
Anonymous
| Springfield Delco person here again. So Haverford is right up the street from Swarthmore. Off the I495 Interstate called the Blue Route. Haverford is near Ardmore and the Main Line. So a little more culture and little more to do. (Suburban Square- shopping, restaurants, some nightlife) Not diverse in anyway or form! (Kinda like Villanova) I would say that Swarthmore has a better Academic rep in town. |