If you were POTUS, how would you fix the Rust Belt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Liberal pro-Hilary highly educated white collar working living in the rust belt, after some time all over east coast (and lots of international travel)....this thread is so clueless. The stereotyping is insane. Also, this isn't 'rust belt' versus east coast, it is urban v. rural....take a look at a blue/red map.

And what do I think it will take to fix this problem? We have a problem with wealth accumulation in this country. We need to invest in our working class, our poor and our middle class. The hollowing out isn't of the rust belt, it is off the middle class period. We need to re-invest in what has been abandon.

Sadly, the Republicans are the least likely to do this.

But when you say invest or reinvest, what, concretely, does that mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there is a solution. I think if you look at the family trees of people trapped in the Rust Belt you'll find 200-plus years of uneducated poor people. The brief period of good income was an anomaly.

Such a stupid post.

To follow up, the PP knows nothing about the Rust Belt. There are plenty of educated people who are doing very well, some prohably way better than you. And anyway, most of the Rust Belt is doing fine without the help of DC psuedo saviors like you who truly don't give a shit but want the moral authority points from loudly pretending they do.

Denial is clearly just a river in Egypt to some.

Look up job and population trends, and public school rankings. Outside of some pop because of shale, the middle of the country is hollowed out. All the money is concentrated on the coasts, Texas and Florida. Minnesota is doing decent I guess.

Shale? You truly are an idiot.

Ad hominem attacks make you look like the idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal pro-Hilary highly educated white collar working living in the rust belt, after some time all over east coast (and lots of international travel)....this thread is so clueless. The stereotyping is insane. Also, this isn't 'rust belt' versus east coast, it is urban v. rural....take a look at a blue/red map.

And what do I think it will take to fix this problem? We have a problem with wealth accumulation in this country. We need to invest in our working class, our poor and our middle class. The hollowing out isn't of the rust belt, it is off the middle class period. We need to re-invest in what has been abandon.

Sadly, the Republicans are the least likely to do this.

+1. Finally someone who makes some sense and has some idea what they are talking about (in stark contrast to the "shale" poster).

+1. Or, as Warren Buffet said, "You don't need 4% GDP growth, you can do much better with better distribution of 2% GDP growth." The US as a whole needs fewer third- fourth- fifth-rate colleges, and more of a well-designed, adaptable vocational training program, country-wide. Support the creating of a high-skilled middle class (that doesn't mean hedge fund analysts).

yes, but what it also needs is progressive tax rates as such that salary between hedge fund analysts and auto-mechanic are not that large - maybe 3x at most after taxes and transfers.

as a former forex trader, being a HF analyst (and most finance jobs) are fucking boring. sitting at a desk all day, eating like shit, with 6 screens staring in your face like you are some lab rat is not self actualizing.

I also tool around in my car - if i could go back, and i knew i could make 6 figures as a 'wrench' (including some sort of wage support to get to that six figures) I would've been happier being an auto mechanic professionally.

in places like germany the delta in income between white and blue collar isn't so large as it is here

True. I grew up in Germany. In Germany, professionals still make good money. Doctors, corporate officials and attorneys drive around in Mercedes and BMWs and have nice big houses, travel for vacation, go out to dinner and theater, have all the perks of excellent living. But they don't feel the need to be multimillionaires like Americans do. Blue collar workers on the other hand aren't at the poverty level like they are here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal pro-Hilary highly educated white collar working living in the rust belt, after some time all over east coast (and lots of international travel)....this thread is so clueless. The stereotyping is insane. Also, this isn't 'rust belt' versus east coast, it is urban v. rural....take a look at a blue/red map.

And what do I think it will take to fix this problem? We have a problem with wealth accumulation in this country. We need to invest in our working class, our poor and our middle class. The hollowing out isn't of the rust belt, it is off the middle class period. We need to re-invest in what has been abandon.

Sadly, the Republicans are the least likely to do this.

+1. Finally someone who makes some sense and has some idea what they are talking about (in stark contrast to the "shale" poster).

+1. Or, as Warren Buffet said, "You don't need 4% GDP growth, you can do much better with better distribution of 2% GDP growth." The US as a whole needs fewer third- fourth- fifth-rate colleges, and more of a well-designed, adaptable vocational training program, country-wide. Support the creating of a high-skilled middle class (that doesn't mean hedge fund analysts).

yes, but what it also needs is progressive tax rates as such that salary between hedge fund analysts and auto-mechanic are not that large - maybe 3x at most after taxes and transfers.

as a former forex trader, being a HF analyst (and most finance jobs) are fucking boring. sitting at a desk all day, eating like shit, with 6 screens staring in your face like you are some lab rat is not self actualizing.

I also tool around in my car - if i could go back, and i knew i could make 6 figures as a 'wrench' (including some sort of wage support to get to that six figures) I would've been happier being an auto mechanic professionally.

in places like germany the delta in income between white and blue collar isn't so large as it is here

True. I grew up in Germany. In Germany, professionals still make good money. Doctors, corporate officials and attorneys drive around in Mercedes and BMWs and have nice big houses, travel for vacation, go out to dinner and theater, have all the perks of excellent living. But they don't feel the need to be multimillionaires like Americans do. Blue collar workers on the other hand aren't at the poverty level like they are here.

We often have medical fellows from Europe do a rotation at our hospital and they are always floored by doctors' salaries in the US. Several decided to move to train in America afterwards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal pro-Hilary highly educated white collar working living in the rust belt, after some time all over east coast (and lots of international travel)....this thread is so clueless. The stereotyping is insane. Also, this isn't 'rust belt' versus east coast, it is urban v. rural....take a look at a blue/red map.

And what do I think it will take to fix this problem? We have a problem with wealth accumulation in this country. We need to invest in our working class, our poor and our middle class. The hollowing out isn't of the rust belt, it is off the middle class period. We need to re-invest in what has been abandon.

Sadly, the Republicans are the least likely to do this.

+1. Finally someone who makes some sense and has some idea what they are talking about (in stark contrast to the "shale" poster).

+1. Or, as Warren Buffet said, "You don't need 4% GDP growth, you can do much better with better distribution of 2% GDP growth." The US as a whole needs fewer third- fourth- fifth-rate colleges, and more of a well-designed, adaptable vocational training program, country-wide. Support the creating of a high-skilled middle class (that doesn't mean hedge fund analysts).

yes, but what it also needs is progressive tax rates as such that salary between hedge fund analysts and auto-mechanic are not that large - maybe 3x at most after taxes and transfers.

as a former forex trader, being a HF analyst (and most finance jobs) are fucking boring. sitting at a desk all day, eating like shit, with 6 screens staring in your face like you are some lab rat is not self actualizing.

I also tool around in my car - if i could go back, and i knew i could make 6 figures as a 'wrench' (including some sort of wage support to get to that six figures) I would've been happier being an auto mechanic professionally.

in places like germany the delta in income between white and blue collar isn't so large as it is here

True. I grew up in Germany. In Germany, professionals still make good money. Doctors, corporate officials and attorneys drive around in Mercedes and BMWs and have nice big houses, travel for vacation, go out to dinner and theater, have all the perks of excellent living. But they don't feel the need to be multimillionaires like Americans do. Blue collar workers on the other hand aren't at the poverty level like they are here.

We often have medical fellows from Europe do a rotation at our hospital and they are always floored by doctors' salaries in the US. Several decided to move to train in America afterwards.

If you are lower/middle class, livinging in a socialist country like somewhere in Europe is better - no worries about healthcare and college costs. If you are wealthy, living in the US is better - less taxes and pay at the upper scale is a lot higher.

[Anonymous]

There are of course pockets of wealth in flyover country but it's earned it reputation overall; Obese, welfare, uneducated, sluggish economy, endless abandoned towns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal pro-Hilary highly educated white collar working living in the rust belt, after some time all over east coast (and lots of international travel)....this thread is so clueless. The stereotyping is insane. Also, this isn't 'rust belt' versus east coast, it is urban v. rural....take a look at a blue/red map.

And what do I think it will take to fix this problem? We have a problem with wealth accumulation in this country. We need to invest in our working class, our poor and our middle class. The hollowing out isn't of the rust belt, it is off the middle class period. We need to re-invest in what has been abandon.

Sadly, the Republicans are the least likely to do this.

+1. Finally someone who makes some sense and has some idea what they are talking about (in stark contrast to the "shale" poster).

+1. Or, as Warren Buffet said, "You don't need 4% GDP growth, you can do much better with better distribution of 2% GDP growth." The US as a whole needs fewer third- fourth- fifth-rate colleges, and more of a well-designed, adaptable vocational training program, country-wide. Support the creating of a high-skilled middle class (that doesn't mean hedge fund analysts).

yes, but what it also needs is progressive tax rates as such that salary between hedge fund analysts and auto-mechanic are not that large - maybe 3x at most after taxes and transfers.

as a former forex trader, being a HF analyst (and most finance jobs) are fucking boring. sitting at a desk all day, eating like shit, with 6 screens staring in your face like you are some lab rat is not self actualizing.

I also tool around in my car - if i could go back, and i knew i could make 6 figures as a 'wrench' (including some sort of wage support to get to that six figures) I would've been happier being an auto mechanic professionally.

in places like germany the delta in income between white and blue collar isn't so large as it is here

True. I grew up in Germany. In Germany, professionals still make good money. Doctors, corporate officials and attorneys drive around in Mercedes and BMWs and have nice big houses, travel for vacation, go out to dinner and theater, have all the perks of excellent living. But they don't feel the need to be multimillionaires like Americans do. Blue collar workers on the other hand aren't at the poverty level like they are here.

We often have medical fellows from Europe do a rotation at our hospital and they are always floored by doctors' salaries in the US. Several decided to move to train in America afterwards.

If you are lower/middle class, livinging in a socialist country like somewhere in Europe is better - no worries about healthcare and college costs. If you are wealthy, living in the US is better - less taxes and pay at the upper scale is a lot higher.

FFS. Socialist? Do words even have meaning in Trumpworld?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are of course pockets of wealth in flyover country but it's earned it reputation overall; Obese, welfare, uneducated, sluggish economy, endless abandoned towns.

you really have no idea what you are talking about....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are of course pockets of wealth in flyover country but it's earned it reputation overall; Obese, welfare, uneducated, sluggish economy, endless abandoned towns.

you really have no idea what you are talking about....

Two decades of brain drain. Every smart and/or rich kid in the Midwest b-lines to Chicago or the coasts at 18 or 22. The Rust Belt has zero chance because year by year it becomes a higher concentration of hopeless people.

[Anonymous]

Flyover country represents capitalism; used up and spit out. It doesn't serve a purpose anymore. Nobody should live there. The strong moved away, which has been happening for decades. The weak will still be there in 20 30 40 years waiting for things to return to the heydays (they heard pa talk about).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been going on for more than 50 years but no one cared until it affected white middle income workers.

First most low-paying farm labor & sharecropping jobs disappeared due to mechanization and many of those poor people moved to cities. Then many of the unskilled labor jobs disappeared, then the low-skilled labor jobs, and now the skilled blue collar jobs.

At the same time, the number of jobs for women increased - not high-paying jobs but more professional careers. For a few decades the middle class survived because of the shift to two income families instead of one male breadwinner, but now the trend is increasing numbers of non-college educated men without good jobs and more unmarried college educated women.

It doesn't help when people like Trump and Sanders lie and tell them they could bring back the old manufacturing jobs. They can't. NAFTA didn't do this. It is primarily the result of technology advancements that are not ever going backwards. People need the education and skills that are in demand in the current economy, not the ones that were in demand 40 years ago.

Bingo! Just like the opioid epidemic.

The thing is, now GOP is in charge and their lies will be found out first. Next time around, Bernie's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Conservative here – grew up in the Rust Belt in a working middle class home.

Trump pulled the perfect Jedi mind trick and people were so caught up in the fervor that many did not catch it – he clouded the issue. I was in my hometown a week after the election and a lot of people somehow thought that immigrants were taking the jobs THEY WANTED. These folks do want to pick apples or cut grass – they want the $25 dollar manufacturing jobs with benefits. They have a hard time understanding that the economy (and the lure of CHEAP labor overseas) makes those jobs obsolete. What they do know is that those manufacturing jobs (and the service industries derived from them) served as the foundation of the middle class in their cities. If you were a line worker at Ford or a brew worker at Miller, you were doing pretty well. However I do wonder whether people and corporations will actually want to make the sacrifices – because “fixing” the problem will require government market intervention on some levels. Here are a couple of observations.

1. The issue in many of these places is the lack of a consistent stable tax base. Relocating some government operations and giving a Federal incentive (in addition to state and local measures) for companies to move to certain areas and to hire and train local folks will help with this.
2. If you really want to get tough – even out the costs of manufacturing overseas through import tariffs or corporate level taxes. The issue is that folks may have to pay $800 for their iPhone – that’s the trade-off.
3. Many of these places will need a massive retooling away from typical Rust Belt jobs similar to what happened in Pittsburgh, Cleveland and is now starting to happen in Detroit. So invest in post HS education whether it be traditional college tuition or vocational education. Problem is that this does not solve the problem of the 45YO laid off line worker who would have to retrain.
4. As PP said, recognize that this is a bigger issue outside of the cities and requires a different mindset. Cities are a bit more organic and require less of a Federal touch. Focus outside of the cities.
5. Continue to give grads incentive through a bonus or student loan forgiveness to live and work in some of these areas – especially rural. The issue in many of these places is talent drain. Many kids head off to college and the big city and never come back and it is difficult to get folks to relocate to these areas.
6. Understand that is an issue that you cannot just throw money at. It is going to take a lot of cooperative work between the Feds and the state and local governments and it may requires Conservatives stepping away from a couple of their core planks.

Wow, very impressive - this is a great range of ideas, not hanging it all on re-education. Appreciate if you describe why you consider yourself a conservative. I think of many of these proposals to be traditional Democratic Party planks.

Well, I am a Conservative for many reasons that I do not want to get into here. But on this particular question of "fixing" the Rust Belt, I know firsthand how the priorities of working class Republicans differ from the Republican elites. I am also a pragmatist. I believe in letting the market work generally, but in some of these places, government effort is required to get them to a place where the market can function. A lot my fellow Conservatives do not embrace that - which is why I said it may require them to step away from the platform.

I am a traditional moderate Democrat who believes that govt can do good. But the US has just elected a President with the support of working class males in rural areas and Rust Belt Cities. Speaker Ryan and his buddies want to cut the programs that benefit mostly the Red parts of this country. Go for it! I, a Blue State Democrat, will benefit from the lower taxes. The "Conservative" comments above all require and suggest some sort of govt action. My better side is willing to listen, but the anger that Trump supporters are targeting at those who frankly pay their bills has turned me sour. The Red parts of this country tend to be net takers, with some exceptions of course. Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, telecom taxes, ag subsidies, infrastructure spending, USPS offices, etc disproportionally benefit our Red parts. If you cut Medicare and Medicaid, those hospitals and other medical facilities in the Red parts will fold up. So, we will have govt controlled by Republican idealogues whose economic theories caused the breakdown in middle class wages and more recently the Great Recession. I did not vote for them, but it is my govt I guess. I do know that my taxes will decrease. I win. Those who voted for Trump lose, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are of course pockets of wealth in flyover country but it's earned it reputation overall; Obese, welfare, uneducated, sluggish economy, endless abandoned towns.

you really have no idea what you are talking about....

+1. No clue at all. Please stop this ridiculous narrative and admit that you are angry and bitter about the election and lashing out at the people who live in states where only a little over half the people voted for Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Flyover country represents capitalism; used up and spit out. It doesn't serve a purpose anymore. Nobody should live there. The strong moved away, which has been happening for decades. The weak will still be there in 20 30 40 years waiting for things to return to the heydays (they heard pa talk about).

So what? The "strong" live in DC? If strong means that you can't do anything other than push paper suck off of the government teet, then this country really is in trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are of course pockets of wealth in flyover country but it's earned it reputation overall; Obese, welfare, uneducated, sluggish economy, endless abandoned towns.

you really have no idea what you are talking about....

Two decades of brain drain. Every smart and/or rich kid in the Midwest b-lines to Chicago or the coasts at 18 or 22. The Rust Belt has zero chance because year by year it becomes a higher concentration of hopeless people.

Maybe, but they usually come back. Most of my friends have, and hopefully I will soon follow. They are hardly "hopeless" people. They return because it is a great place to raise a family, way better than DC. I am a native, and I know more than some self-proclaimed sociologist sitting behind a keyboard. Try not to sound quite so angry and bitter. What did the people in flyover country do to you? Oh, yeah, some of them didn't vote for your girl Hillary. Get over it!