What school is Petula Devorak talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

The facts speak for themselves - surely it is not a coincidence that in a city where almost 2/3 of public school kids are AA, less than half of Latin kids are AA. In a city where about 3/4 of kids receive Free and Reduced Meals, only 18% of kids at Latin do.

Sources: DCPS as a whole: http://dcps.dc.gov/node/966292
Latin: http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/809-Washington-Latin-PCS---Middle-School/details/


You want examples of small and subtle things? How about the aggressive recruiting at JKLM schools, and the non-existent recruiting east of the river. How about putting the school way up in the middle of nowhere in Ward 4, hard to reach by metro, impossible to reach by bus (especially for kids who live in Wards 7 and 8). How about the uniforms that are required to be purchased at either LL Bean or in Georgetown. How about the school-organized buses, that happen to be predominantly in wealthier parts of the city, and cost $1,500 annually.

All those things create huge barriers to poor kids. Granted, the kids who make it past these hurdles get help - they can apply for free busing, they can get help with uniforms, etc. But it's all of the first steps that weed out poor kids, kids from non-English speaking households, etc.

These aren't giant obvious things - but the proof is in the results: a disproportionately white and wealthy student body in a public charter school that is supposed to be open equally to all children in the city.

good points on transportation in particular. the Charter Board needs to start requiring charters with severe imbalances to provide transportation options if they chose to locate away from Metro or good bus lines. Or alternatively, fund a couple of bus lines.

[Anonymous]

Latin buses are free east of the River.

The high school still has a large population of economically disadvantaged students - so the location isn't weeding everyone out. But the lower grades seem dominated by whiter, wealthier students.

To their credit Latin is working on expansion plans in Ward 7 or 8. Time will tell if that materializes and where.

And in the meantime a solid color / non-embroidered polo shirt seems like a good idea. Perhaps someone can suggest it to the new HOS.

[Anonymous]

Lots of poorer kids live in Ward 4 and in Ward 1. In fact, Columbia Heights has more public housing than any other part of the city. And lots of kids from Ward 6 attending Latin. Location is just one factor influencing where students enroll.

The uniform sale offered tons of used uniforms for very little money. And I saw lots of parents buying the uniforms. Also don't forget families whose kids don't wear uniforms still need to buy clothes for their kids. The would still be a cost associated with the purchase. For example, BASIS kids don't wear uniforms and the demographics are similar to Latin. I think the argument that uniforms deter kids from applying to a school is questionable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

The facts speak for themselves - surely it is not a coincidence that in a city where almost 2/3 of public school kids are AA, less than half of Latin kids are AA. In a city where about 3/4 of kids receive Free and Reduced Meals, only 18% of kids at Latin do.

Sources: DCPS as a whole: http://dcps.dc.gov/node/966292
Latin: http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/809-Washington-Latin-PCS---Middle-School/details/


You want examples of small and subtle things? How about the aggressive recruiting at JKLM schools, and the non-existent recruiting east of the river. How about putting the school way up in the middle of nowhere in Ward 4, hard to reach by metro, impossible to reach by bus (especially for kids who live in Wards 7 and 8). How about the uniforms that are required to be purchased at either LL Bean or in Georgetown. How about the school-organized buses, that happen to be predominantly in wealthier parts of the city, and cost $1,500 annually.

All those things create huge barriers to poor kids. Granted, the kids who make it past these hurdles get help - they can apply for free busing, they can get help with uniforms, etc. But it's all of the first steps that weed out poor kids, kids from non-English speaking households, etc.

These aren't giant obvious things - but the proof is in the results: a disproportionately white and wealthy student body in a public charter school that is supposed to be open equally to all children in the city.

good points on transportation in particular. the Charter Board needs to start requiring charters with severe imbalances to provide transportation options if they chose to locate away from Metro or good bus lines. Or alternatively, fund a couple of bus lines.

You are ridiculous. Latin has done tons for poor family. It's recruiting is mostly word of mouth, like most charter schools. I don't think Latin has stated in its mission it is specifically a classics school for poor children (KIPP has an overt mission in this area). If you want a classics school specifically for poor children get on board and found one, or work on a Latin extension to other wards. But they throw up zero roadblocks to poor kids. We donated so much money as a family to other people's kids there, so much time we donated, saw the school bend over backwards on all kinds of fronts that impact low ses, the new campus was in a reasonably accessible, nice but by no means extra chi chi location, the buses reach all the wards etc. Ugh. You're ridiculous. If the lower grades are filling up with rich white kids its because rich white people love the idea of a free, classics education with proven success.. Our child's graduating class had about three white faces, so don't play that card. Everyone has an equal lottery pull there and can get in regardless of race with an equal chance. You want more Latins? Start researching how you could support an expansion.

[Anonymous]

And by the way, the incoming head of Latin is AA and Latin has served, and graduated, a ton of middle class AA kids. Do you want them to have options or are they out of luck in this city?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

The facts speak for themselves - surely it is not a coincidence that in a city where almost 2/3 of public school kids are AA, less than half of Latin kids are AA. In a city where about 3/4 of kids receive Free and Reduced Meals, only 18% of kids at Latin do.

Sources: DCPS as a whole: http://dcps.dc.gov/node/966292
Latin: http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/809-Washington-Latin-PCS---Middle-School/details/


You want examples of small and subtle things? How about the aggressive recruiting at JKLM schools, and the non-existent recruiting east of the river. How about putting the school way up in the middle of nowhere in Ward 4, hard to reach by metro, impossible to reach by bus (especially for kids who live in Wards 7 and 8). How about the uniforms that are required to be purchased at either LL Bean or in Georgetown. How about the school-organized buses, that happen to be predominantly in wealthier parts of the city, and cost $1,500 annually.

All those things create huge barriers to poor kids. Granted, the kids who make it past these hurdles get help - they can apply for free busing, they can get help with uniforms, etc. But it's all of the first steps that weed out poor kids, kids from non-English speaking households, etc.

These aren't giant obvious things - but the proof is in the results: a disproportionately white and wealthy student body in a public charter school that is supposed to be open equally to all children in the city.

good points on transportation in particular. the Charter Board needs to start requiring charters with severe imbalances to provide transportation options if they chose to locate away from Metro or good bus lines. Or alternatively, fund a couple of bus lines.

Since you made this point, I'm sure you are aware that they have requested the city provide alternative lines pretty much every year since these schools opened. Also, do you attend the DCPCSB meetings? They are monthly - what have you done on this issue? I've been working on the transportation issue for 4 years. Since you think it's so easy, give me your email address and I'm happy to involve you in our effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

The facts speak for themselves - surely it is not a coincidence that in a city where almost 2/3 of public school kids are AA, less than half of Latin kids are AA. In a city where about 3/4 of kids receive Free and Reduced Meals, only 18% of kids at Latin do.

Sources: DCPS as a whole: http://dcps.dc.gov/node/966292
Latin: http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/809-Washington-Latin-PCS---Middle-School/details/


You want examples of small and subtle things? How about the aggressive recruiting at JKLM schools, and the non-existent recruiting east of the river. How about putting the school way up in the middle of nowhere in Ward 4, hard to reach by metro, impossible to reach by bus (especially for kids who live in Wards 7 and 8). How about the uniforms that are required to be purchased at either LL Bean or in Georgetown. How about the school-organized buses, that happen to be predominantly in wealthier parts of the city, and cost $1,500 annually.

All those things create huge barriers to poor kids. Granted, the kids who make it past these hurdles get help - they can apply for free busing, they can get help with uniforms, etc. But it's all of the first steps that weed out poor kids, kids from non-English speaking households, etc.

These aren't giant obvious things - but the proof is in the results: a disproportionately white and wealthy student body in a public charter school that is supposed to be open equally to all children in the city.

I was at an EOTR event last year and Latin was there. I don't think you are factual. Also, as I'm sure you know regarding facilities, charter schools take whatever left over buildings they can find - since DC government doesn't make buildings available to them.

[Anonymous]

I love "who choose to locate away from metro/bus"--do you know historically how hard the city has made it for charters to get any released property at all? At least Latin is on both metro and bus. The shuttles are a bonus.
Get educated and get involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

The facts speak for themselves - surely it is not a coincidence that in a city where almost 2/3 of public school kids are AA, less than half of Latin kids are AA. In a city where about 3/4 of kids receive Free and Reduced Meals, only 18% of kids at Latin do.

Sources: DCPS as a whole: http://dcps.dc.gov/node/966292
Latin: http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/809-Washington-Latin-PCS---Middle-School/details/


You want examples of small and subtle things? How about the aggressive recruiting at JKLM schools, and the non-existent recruiting east of the river. How about putting the school way up in the middle of nowhere in Ward 4, hard to reach by metro, impossible to reach by bus (especially for kids who live in Wards 7 and 8). How about the uniforms that are required to be purchased at either LL Bean or in Georgetown. How about the school-organized buses, that happen to be predominantly in wealthier parts of the city, and cost $1,500 annually.

All those things create huge barriers to poor kids. Granted, the kids who make it past these hurdles get help - they can apply for free busing, they can get help with uniforms, etc. But it's all of the first steps that weed out poor kids, kids from non-English speaking households, etc.

These aren't giant obvious things - but the proof is in the results: a disproportionately white and wealthy student body in a public charter school that is supposed to be open equally to all children in the city.

good points on transportation in particular. the Charter Board needs to start requiring charters with severe imbalances to provide transportation options if they chose to locate away from Metro or good bus lines. Or alternatively, fund a couple of bus lines.

You are ridiculous. Latin has done tons for poor family. It's recruiting is mostly word of mouth, like most charter schools. I don't think Latin has stated in its mission it is specifically a classics school for poor children (KIPP has an overt mission in this area). If you want a classics school specifically for poor children get on board and found one, or work on a Latin extension to other wards. But they throw up zero roadblocks to poor kids. We donated so much money as a family to other people's kids there, so much time we donated, saw the school bend over backwards on all kinds of fronts that impact low ses, the new campus was in a reasonably accessible, nice but by no means extra chi chi location, the buses reach all the wards etc. Ugh. You're ridiculous. If the lower grades are filling up with rich white kids its because rich white people love the idea of a free, classics education with proven success.. Our child's graduating class had about three white faces, so don't play that card. Everyone has an equal lottery pull there and can get in regardless of race with an equal chance. You want more Latins? Start researching how you could support an expansion.

I guess it's just a weird coincidence that Latin ends up with a disproportionately small number of poor kids despite being so committed to helping them.

[Anonymous]

Disproportionate compared to what? Does KiPP discriminate as well with their disproportions? How about Banneker? How about the new all male pubic HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Disproportionate compared to what? Does KiPP discriminate as well with their disproportions? How about Banneker? How about the new all male pubic HS?

Disproportionate compared to what?. Disproportionate compared to the city they are supposed to serve.

Your comparisons prove my point. Bannker is not designed and does not claim to serve the entire city. It is designed to serve a specific set of kids that test in. The all male public HS is obviously designed to serve all males. It is not designed to and does not claim to serve all DC students.

But Latin is specifically chartered to serve every student in the city, and to provide them with equal access and opportunity. And it claims it does, as do its proponents. But somehow, the school serves a disproportionately small number of AA students and an even more disproportionately small number of low-income families.

I wonder why this is the case? And if you are a supporter of the school, shouldn't you at least wonder why this is the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disproportionate compared to what? Does KiPP discriminate as well with their disproportions? How about Banneker? How about the new all male pubic HS?

Disproportionate compared to what?. Disproportionate compared to the city they are supposed to serve.

Your comparisons prove my point. Bannker is not designed and does not claim to serve the entire city. It is designed to serve a specific set of kids that test in. The all male public HS is obviously designed to serve all males. It is not designed to and does not claim to serve all DC students.

But Latin is specifically chartered to serve every student in the city, and to provide them with equal access and opportunity. And it claims it does, as do its proponents. But somehow, the school serves a disproportionately small number of AA students and an even more disproportionately small number of low-income families.

I wonder why this is the case? And if you are a supporter of the school, shouldn't you at least wonder why this is the case?

Aren't they supposed to serve the people who apply, who have an equal color blind SES blind chance of getting in? Isn't that how charters work?

[Anonymous]

So more white apply, more will get in. I wonder if PP is suggesting that school limit # of white families who can apply.

I find it pretty sad that white families face this backlash. Nobody suggests that Banneker, which has wonderful test scores, increase its outreach to white families, even though the percentage of white children is increasing. Banneker would benefit from some added Diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So more white apply, more will get in. I wonder if PP is suggesting that school limit # of white families who can apply.

I find it pretty sad that white families face this backlash. Nobody suggests that Banneker, which has wonderful test scores, increase its outreach to white families, even though the percentage of white children is increasing. Banneker would benefit from some added Diversity.

I'm the PP you are referring to - and you sound like you are reading a different thread. I made a factual point that Washington Latin serves a disproportionately small percentage of AA and FARMS kids. And I suggested why that might be the case.

At no point did I suggest that the number of white families who can apply be limited, and at no point was there an iota of backlash against white families.

PP, what is going in your life that you interpreted this kind of factual discussion as an attack on you and your kind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Disproportionate compared to what? Does KiPP discriminate as well with their disproportions? How about Banneker? How about the new all male pubic HS?

NP. I don't think KIPP and Banneker are good comparators. If DCUM is indicative of white upper and middle SES in this city, it's been stated a million times that such families would never send their kids to those two schools. I don't think the previous posters have said that low, middle, and upper SES Boacks avoid Latin. The new male school is new, but everyone knows that if you won't send your white son to Banneker because the population is too Black, he'll or high water, you aren't sending him to the new boy's school. So stop with the ridiculousness.