IM in 4th grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds complicated. The 2.0 math curriculum is terrible. Why not just have him learn at home with good textbooks (traditional, not common core).

He might learn at home, but the problem is that my kid cannot enjoy the math class at school and is wasting a lot of time. That is so sad.

That is pretty much anyone with a middle income and half-involved parents. Problem is there are many poor families, non-English families and illegal aliens who struggle. Public school teaches to everyone. When MCPS used to track kids in math classes in elementary schools (prior to 2.0) this was never an issue. Having math classes all blended together with a few minutes at a reading table for a quick math lesson and an occasional enrichment sheet completely SUCKS. It also sucks for the struggling kids who do not have enough time with the teachers.

[b]Why MCPS can not track math classes and change ratios based on levels, to teach kids in similar levels is beyond me. 30-1 for highest class, 25-1 for 2nd highest, 20-1 for 3rd highest, and 15-1 with lowest. Have the math specialist spend one day a week in the higher classes and 2 days a week in the lower class.

I mean if we stopped being so politically correct and TEACH the kids at their level in a class with peers at their level, everyone would benefit. Keeping the struggling kids in a class of 25+ kids is doing nothing to bring them up to speed, and they know it and it destroys their self esteem to see some annoying know-it all talk about how "easy" their work is. I volunteer in 1st grade and see it all the time. The combined math class are TERRIBLE.

This sounds like an excellent solution. You need to run for the BOE, PP. Why doesn't MCPS do this?

My DD is in 3rd and I've been volunteering in the classroom for the past 3 years. The current math system is laughable. The kids who are above level are often ignored because they don't 'need' the attention. The kids who do need extra helped are given an extra 10 minutes during math time, but it's often not enough. And, these kids start thinking 'I'm not good at math, Larla is good at math, Math is too hard'.

[Anonymous]

I know a lot of people have strong negative feelings about the new math curriculum but I'm not sure it's all bad. Yes it moves like molasses for the kids who have natural abilities in math, but I see the value in teaching things like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in multiple ways so the children have a really solid foundation of how numbers are represented and how to work with them. I saw that the idea of fractions was introduced in as early as 1st grade although they didn't call it that. It was doubles and the natural extension of that which is halves. I think most but not all parents who complain the curriculum is too easy for their child don't really have a firm grasp of numbers themselves and may see the benefits in the future when their child sails through Algebra because they really understand everything they learned before. Remember a lot of kids who got to this level were really struggling because they had learned rote calculation but have a deep understanding. That's why they updated the curriculum and stopped tracking. I volunteer enough to know that most of the kids, at least at our school, are able to keep up nicely at this pace. I know there are outliers at the other end, the advanced kids, and some of their parents are on this thread. I can understand your frustration as I have a math kid who can work at many years above grade level, but I'm still trying to decide if I share it. DD gets pulled out every other week with a few other kids for enrichment and she can complete that extra work in a snap while the others find it more of a challenge. But she hasn't complained at all. I guess I might have a different perspective if she was upset about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of people have strong negative feelings about the new math curriculum but I'm not sure it's all bad. Yes it moves like molasses for the kids who have natural abilities in math, but I see the value in teaching things like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in multiple ways so the children have a really solid foundation of how numbers are represented and how to work with them. I saw that the idea of fractions was introduced in as early as 1st grade although they didn't call it that. It was doubles and the natural extension of that which is halves. I think most but not all parents who complain the curriculum is too easy for their child don't really have a firm grasp of numbers themselves and may see the benefits in the future when their child sails through Algebra because they really understand everything they learned before. Remember a lot of kids who got to this level were really struggling because they had learned rote calculation but have a deep understanding. That's why they updated the curriculum and stopped tracking. I volunteer enough to know that most of the kids, at least at our school, are able to keep up nicely at this pace. I know there are outliers at the other end, the advanced kids, and some of their parents are on this thread. I can understand your frustration as I have a math kid who can work at many years above grade level, but I'm still trying to decide if I share it. DD gets pulled out every other week with a few other kids for enrichment and she can complete that extra work in a snap while the others find it more of a challenge. But she hasn't complained at all. I guess I might have a different perspective if she was upset about it.

This is not a view that is expressed much on this forum. What you describe is very reassuring. Math in particular is a subject that needs to be taught at a level and pace that is appropriate for most of the kids. How wonderful if most kids are truly going to be ready for Algebra because they have "number sense". I think many people have forgotten how scorching the assessment of Math experts was a few years ago when they reviewed the pre C2.0 Math instruction. I remember reading about teachers from the Blair magnet complaining about how kids who came into the program while naturally gifted, just did not have basic computational skills. The feeling was that these kids , who learn really fast, had been accelerated too quickly and had not spent enough time on the basics.
Do you remember this article in the Washington Post about the Blair experience?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902646.html
The challenge when you slow things down and try to be thorough is that some children feel bored. They need to have many more enrichment opportunities for the top 20% of students. They should have more tracking so these kids are grouped with their peers.

[Anonymous]

My impression is the most vocal complaints come from the people with the more technical background and they have been more substantive than my kid is bored. If it's going to be wait and see, it won't be much longer the first cohort is in MS now an will take algebra soon. But then there's the question of how is Algebra under Common Core?, the first two years have been a haphazard mess of giant, error-ridden packets and no textbooks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP:

I have an ASD child currently in the TPMS magnet and in the first cohort of curriculum 2.0 kids. He tested 160+ on math IQ and always complained about math going too slowly. Tested in the 99+ percentile on all standardized tests.

In grade 3, they were still refusing to accelerate and his teacher gave him Math Stars logic worksheets that he did with other kids. The kids had to talk out the problems with each other and no adult so that they could talk through their thinking. And they were given problems meant for older kids. He was also accelerated a grade in classroom.

At HGC in grade 4, math teacher made him repeat grade 4. He was bored, but he did learn to calculate mental math at a fast pace and learn various strategies to do problems. When he'd ask me to learn a concept not being taught, I'd teach it to him.

Once we got to TPMS, we found that some schools (I think in Bethesda/Potomac vs downcounty where we are) had bucked the MCPS line about not accelerating and allowed a couple of kids to accelerate. But as others have said, there are only about 4-5 kids who are in Algebra as 6th graders.

The magnet classes go far more in-depth in the math classes than either a CTY online class or regular middle school. The projects they do are pretty cool, particularly in Algebra in grade 7 (I have an older child finishing the program). 6th grader never studies and hates teachers repeating instruction b/c he gets everything the first time, but those are the only complaints I get now.

We discussed whether to accelerate my child again this year, but, in the end, the math teacher convinced me that he would get far more out of Algebra with the particular teacher in the magnet than anywhere else.

If I were you, I'd find a way to do non-class supplements, like Math Odyssey or Math Counts or Math Stars, and even strategy board games and not push Algebra too early. Even though you don't want to think ahead, you really do need to. The path from grade 3 to high school at Blair goes quite quickly!

I hope the OP saw this - your kids sound comparable to the OP's and this is likely the path OP's child will take.
I don't know if there is something unique about Math but I have felt like the magnet programs in middle school and high school have really served my kid who scores really well in the reading comprehension tests - MAP-R of 274 at the end of 7th grade and 97th percentile in the high school magnet reading test. He topped out of the 99th percentile for 11th grade students in MAP-R in 6th grade so theoretically if we had exposed him to college level texts in various subjects he would have done well but he is also sufficiently engaged in class with his magnet peers. I am happy that he is with kids his age. I remember back in 5th grade he would have qualified to skip IM in 6th grade but his HGC teacher said she did not recommend this path for any of her Math 7 students. She thought it was important not to start Algebra too young and that getting to Algebra 2 before the age of say 15 often presented a problem for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of people have strong negative feelings about the new math curriculum but I'm not sure it's all bad. Yes it moves like molasses for the kids who have natural abilities in math, but I see the value in teaching things like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in multiple ways so the children have a really solid foundation of how numbers are represented and how to work with them. I saw that the idea of fractions was introduced in as early as 1st grade although they didn't call it that. It was doubles and the natural extension of that which is halves. I think most but not all parents who complain the curriculum is too easy for their child don't really have a firm grasp of numbers themselves and may see the benefits in the future when their child sails through Algebra because they really understand everything they learned before. Remember a lot of kids who got to this level were really struggling because they had learned rote calculation but have a deep understanding. That's why they updated the curriculum and stopped tracking. I volunteer enough to know that most of the kids, at least at our school, are able to keep up nicely at this pace. I know there are outliers at the other end, the advanced kids, and some of their parents are on this thread. I can understand your frustration as I have a math kid who can work at many years above grade level, but I'm still trying to decide if I share it. DD gets pulled out every other week with a few other kids for enrichment and she can complete that extra work in a snap while the others find it more of a challenge. But she hasn't complained at all. I guess I might have a different perspective if she was upset about it.

My child went thru the old math and is taking Pre-calc in 9th and is doing great. She didn't need to be slowed down and I am grateful she got out before 2.0 was implemented. My other daughter? Not so lucky. She is literally bored to tears. You can mention kids weren't grasping things and that is why it was slowed down but it was actually the increase in poverty and immigrants that was the issue. The math was moving too fast for them. Kids that take Algebra 1 prior to 9th aced the tests. It was the kids taking Algebra 1 AFTER 9th that struggled. But it wouldn't be politically correct to say this (and moms of kids on track or higher would have throw an even bigger fit) so they said it was mainly to help the kids advancing too fast. Look at the numbers. It is a bunch of BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of people have strong negative feelings about the new math curriculum but I'm not sure it's all bad. Yes it moves like molasses for the kids who have natural abilities in math, but I see the value in teaching things like addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in multiple ways so the children have a really solid foundation of how numbers are represented and how to work with them. I saw that the idea of fractions was introduced in as early as 1st grade although they didn't call it that. It was doubles and the natural extension of that which is halves. I think most but not all parents who complain the curriculum is too easy for their child don't really have a firm grasp of numbers themselves and may see the benefits in the future when their child sails through Algebra because they really understand everything they learned before. Remember a lot of kids who got to this level were really struggling because they had learned rote calculation but have a deep understanding. That's why they updated the curriculum and stopped tracking. I volunteer enough to know that most of the kids, at least at our school, are able to keep up nicely at this pace. I know there are outliers at the other end, the advanced kids, and some of their parents are on this thread. I can understand your frustration as I have a math kid who can work at many years above grade level, but I'm still trying to decide if I share it. DD gets pulled out every other week with a few other kids for enrichment and she can complete that extra work in a snap while the others find it more of a challenge. But she hasn't complained at all. I guess I might have a different perspective if she was upset about it.

My child went thru the old math and is taking Pre-calc in 9th and is doing great. She didn't need to be slowed down and I am grateful she got out before 2.0 was implemented. My other daughter? Not so lucky. She is literally bored to tears. You can mention kids weren't grasping things and that is why it was slowed down but it was actually the increase in poverty and immigrants that was the issue. The math was moving too fast for them. Kids that take Algebra 1 prior to 9th aced the tests. It was the kids taking Algebra 1 AFTER 9th that struggled. But it wouldn't be politically correct to say this (and moms of kids on track or higher would have throw an even bigger fit) so they said it was mainly to help the kids advancing too fast. Look at the numbers. It is a bunch of BS.

BINGO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds complicated. The 2.0 math curriculum is terrible. Why not just have him learn at home with good textbooks (traditional, not common core).

He might learn at home, but the problem is that my kid cannot enjoy the math class at school and is wasting a lot of time. That is so sad.

That is pretty much anyone with a middle income and half-involved parents. Problem is there are many poor families, non-English families and illegal aliens who struggle. Public school teaches to everyone. When MCPS used to track kids in math classes in elementary schools (prior to 2.0) this was never an issue. Having math classes all blended together with a few minutes at a reading table for a quick math lesson and an occasional enrichment sheet completely SUCKS. It also sucks for the struggling kids who do not have enough time with the teachers.

Why MCPS can not track math classes and change ratios based on levels, to teach kids in similar levels is beyond me. 30-1 for highest class, 25-1 for 2nd highest, 20-1 for 3rd highest, and 15-1 with lowest. Have the math specialist spend one day a week in the higher classes and 2 days a week in the lower class.

I mean if we stopped being so politically correct and TEACH the kids at their level in a class with peers at their level, everyone would benefit. Keeping the struggling kids in a class of 25+ kids is doing nothing to bring them up to speed, and they know it and it destroys their self esteem to see some annoying know-it all talk about how "easy" their work is. I volunteer in 1st grade and see it all the time. The combined math class are TERRIBLE.

[b]This sounds like an excellent solution. You need to run for the BOE, PP. Why doesn't MCPS do this?

My DD is in 3rd and I've been volunteering in the classroom for the past 3 years. The current math system is laughable. The kids who are above level are often ignored because they don't 'need' the attention. The kids who do need extra helped are given an extra 10 minutes during math time, but it's often not enough. And, these kids start thinking 'I'm not good at math, Larla is good at math, Math is too hard'.

NP They don't do it because the classrooms wouldn't be diverse enough. They care more about diversity than getting kids educated. If the upper classes are all asian and the lower classes are all hispanic it looks bad. Mixing them all together and saying they all help each other is the liberal thing to do. But really all it does is hurt the kids. Puts them in their place so to speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
NP They don't do it because the classrooms wouldn't be diverse enough. They care more about diversity than getting kids educated. If the upper classes are all asian and the lower classes are all hispanic it looks bad. Mixing them all together and saying they all help each other is the liberal thing to do. But really all it does is hurt the kids. Puts them in their place so to speak.

Sad but true!

[Anonymous]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is IM? Intermediate Math? What does it refer to? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but what is IM? Intermediate Math? What does it refer to? Thanks

Investigation in Mathematics http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/math/middle/investigations/

It's the on grade level math for seventh graders and is essentially what once was called pre-algebra.

[Anonymous]

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

OP, how is it going? Any update?

[Anonymous]

OP here- We have decided to accept the school's recommendation of compact math 4/5 next year (when he's in 2nd grade) and then we'll take it year by year. I'm not thrilled about him going to a middle school for IM as a 4th grader, but a lot can change in two years- both with my child and with the curriculum MCPS offers. We're focusing on the fact that right now, he absolutely loves math again and it's the highlight of his day. As long as that continues to be the case, he's learning and his teachers recommend he continue on this accelerated track, we'll stay the course and take it year by year.