IM in 4th grade?

[Anonymous]

OP, I have a now-3rd grade son who sounds somewhat similar to your son. I don't really have advice, but here is our pathway in case it helps. In first grade, he worked at school with a volunteer who was a retired Blair math teacher who extolled his math abilities and thought that the 4/5 compacted math would be appropriate for him as a 2nd grader. My school would not do that sort of thing, and I didn't ask for it because I didn't want him to be with kids that old. I instead pushed for some amount of enrichment and the school was reasonably accommodating. Yes, he did the same work as the top math group did, all of which he did lickety split, and then on top of that he was at least 1/week given deeper problems from Singapore math and Math Forum. He is the kind of kid who doesn't get frustrated or upset by being asked to do easy stuff he already knows, so that worked out OK. And then I worked with him at home on other things, like Math Olympiad, Math Kangaroo, etc., for the fun of it. He is not so advanced that as a third grader, he would be able to compete with the top Takoma Park magnet 6th graders, even though he certainly knows a lot more math than most 8th graders (which I am able to assess because of my older kid and volunteering at school). You might consider using that as a guide of what kind of math he should be studying -- does he already need more than those magnet middle schoolers are getting, and if not, do you want to make sure he is a on pathway where he will be able to join them easily at the right time. My son is going to an HGC for 4th grade, and I expect that there will be some kids like him there and that he will find a nice niche. Hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

OP, you got a lot of good advices here.
I believe I read once on AOPs very good approach.

When your kids is very good in music, you higher better teacher and get kids to competition or best musical school.
When your kids good in sport, you test him to put into more competitive team. You do not put him in college basketball!

When your child is good at math you should not skip more than 2-3 grades at most! It is not developmentally appropriate.
You child should stay with his intellectual peers at his age! So you need to find groups online, clubs, math teams etc. to challenge your kids.
You need him to find kids like he is, and be happy. You do not want him to be in class with HS kids or adults, that is very often recipe for disaster.
I know some people did it. But I personally was on campus at top college with 14 years old kid. He was almost like an alien with nobody to talk to and everyone pointing fingers at him. That child was not happy child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I'm not thrilled about him taking IM as a 4th grader. But he was moved from his first grade math into 3rd grade math this year and is recommended for 4/5 as a second grader next year. That would lead to IM in 4th grade, which the office of acceleration and enrichment wanted us to understand could have it's drawbacks, which I understand. We're trying to visualize/plan how to have his math instruction impact the rest of his school day as little as possible.

Unless they are allowing your child to skip a grade, I would not allow them to push his math. He will not be able to take IM. My daughter was pushed prior to compacted math and she was then left in a class doing "grade 7th math" in 5th grade with others doing 6th. She was bored to tears and skipped IM to Algebra 1 in 6th grade. This is not allowed anymore. You really need to push to accelerate in grades, not just math. Otherwise he will get burned in 5th. And the curriculum is SO much easier and mundane prior to 2.0. My 1st grader is so insanely bored in math right now it is a joke. They won't push anyone in another grade or grade math in our school. So I just supplement at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have a now-3rd grade son who sounds somewhat similar to your son. I don't really have advice, but here is our pathway in case it helps. In first grade, he worked at school with a volunteer who was a retired Blair math teacher who extolled his math abilities and thought that the 4/5 compacted math would be appropriate for him as a 2nd grader. My school would not do that sort of thing, and I didn't ask for it because I didn't want him to be with kids that old. I instead pushed for some amount of enrichment and the school was reasonably accommodating. Yes, he did the same work as the top math group did, all of which he did lickety split, and then on top of that he was at least 1/week given deeper problems from Singapore math and Math Forum. He is the kind of kid who doesn't get frustrated or upset by being asked to do easy stuff he already knows, so that worked out OK. And then I worked with him at home on other things, like Math Olympiad, Math Kangaroo, etc., for the fun of it. He is not so advanced that as a third grader, he would be able to compete with the top Takoma Park magnet 6th graders, even though he certainly knows a lot more math than most 8th graders (which I am able to assess because of my older kid and volunteering at school). You might consider using that as a guide of what kind of math he should be studying -- does he already need more than those magnet middle schoolers are getting, and if not, do you want to make sure he is a on pathway where he will be able to join them easily at the right time. My son is going to an HGC for 4th grade, and I expect that there will be some kids like him there and that he will find a nice niche. Hope that helps.

Just an FYI - the math was pretty tame in HGC. I was wondering why it was even called HGC. They do more writing than anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I'm not thrilled about him taking IM as a 4th grader. But he was moved from his first grade math into 3rd grade math this year and is recommended for 4/5 as a second grader next year. That would lead to IM in 4th grade, which the office of acceleration and enrichment wanted us to understand could have it's drawbacks, which I understand. We're trying to visualize/plan how to have his math instruction impact the rest of his school day as little as possible.

Unless they are allowing your child to skip a grade, I would not allow them to push his math. He will not be able to take IM. My daughter was pushed prior to compacted math and she was then left in a class doing "grade 7th math" in 5th grade with others doing 6th. She was bored to tears and skipped IM to Algebra 1 in 6th grade. This is not allowed anymore. You really need to push to accelerate in grades, not just math. Otherwise he will get burned in 5th. And the curriculum is SO much easier and mundane prior to 2.0. My 1st grader is so insanely bored in math right now it is a joke. They won't push anyone in another grade or grade math in our school. So I just supplement at home.

While it isn't allowed anymore, what OP's child is currently doing is not allowed anymore either so there are clearly no hard and fast rules in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

The different is the bar has gone way, way up for acceleration. The kids have to be extremely advanced to even be skipped even one grade in math and the schools will take in to account the level of classmates, schedules and the class size of the grade the child might be in for instruction. If the stars don't align for even one reason and that could be a principal who just doesn't want to bother it won't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think there is a difference between doing 3rd grade math in 1st grade (not uncommon in pre 2.0 days) and algebra in 5th grade.

I'm not sure about that. Do you have any research on this? I've seen some about how early elementary math performance is a predictor of later success in academics but it was a pretty general study and not focused on kids with high ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a really frustrating set up, I wish MCPS would provide actual enrichment so kids could stay with their peers. Our repeated requests never got us much more than Sudoku puzzles. There is so much math in the world outside what is included in the standard curriculum, but the teachers don't seem to have access to appropriate materials.

We chose acceleration, but it really does trap you.

Don't knock Sudoku puzzles! Our DC was hooked when he was introduced to them by his teacher and I think it was the beginning of his love affair with math!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a really frustrating set up, I wish MCPS would provide actual enrichment so kids could stay with their peers. Our repeated requests never got us much more than Sudoku puzzles. There is so much math in the world outside what is included in the standard curriculum, but the teachers don't seem to have access to appropriate materials.

We chose acceleration, but it really does trap you.

Don't knock Sudoku puzzles! Our DC was hooked when he was introduced to them by his teacher and I think it was the beginning of his love affair with math!

Sudoku puzzles are great. We did KenKen puzzles too. However, they are not an adequate substitute for an appropriate math curriculum. Kids are not one size fits all, schools shouldn't pretend they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think there is a difference between doing 3rd grade math in 1st grade (not uncommon in pre 2.0 days) and algebra in 5th grade.

I'm not sure about that. Do you have any research on this? I've seen some about how early elementary math performance is a predictor of later success in academics but it was a pretty general study and not focused on kids with high ability.

There are studies about Algebra being inappropriate for kids who are younger than 12/7th grade

[Anonymous]

But that's for most kids, not necessarily a kid like OP's who seems to be pretty highly gifted. Is there research about high ability kids at this age flaming out or having trouble once they hit the Algebra hurdle? I think previous PPs were arguing this might be the case but I haven't seen anything concrete about this. It could be true, just want to see what researchers say and how they came to that conclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have a now-3rd grade son who sounds somewhat similar to your son. I don't really have advice, but here is our pathway in case it helps. In first grade, he worked at school with a volunteer who was a retired Blair math teacher who extolled his math abilities and thought that the 4/5 compacted math would be appropriate for him as a 2nd grader. My school would not do that sort of thing, and I didn't ask for it because I didn't want him to be with kids that old. I instead pushed for some amount of enrichment and the school was reasonably accommodating. Yes, he did the same work as the top math group did, all of which he did lickety split, and then on top of that he was at least 1/week given deeper problems from Singapore math and Math Forum. He is the kind of kid who doesn't get frustrated or upset by being asked to do easy stuff he already knows, so that worked out OK. And then I worked with him at home on other things, like Math Olympiad, Math Kangaroo, etc., for the fun of it. He is not so advanced that as a third grader, he would be able to compete with the top Takoma Park magnet 6th graders, even though he certainly knows a lot more math than most 8th graders (which I am able to assess because of my older kid and volunteering at school). You might consider using that as a guide of what kind of math he should be studying -- does he already need more than those magnet middle schoolers are getting, and if not, do you want to make sure he is a on pathway where he will be able to join them easily at the right time. My son is going to an HGC for 4th grade, and I expect that there will be some kids like him there and that he will find a nice niche. Hope that helps.

Not the OP, but can you tell me more about this? I have a 1st grader who adores math and is absolutely NOT being challenged at school. They haven't been willing to do much in the way or enrichment. I'd like to do more at home.

I Googled Math Kangaroo and Math Olympiad but they look like competitions? How did you do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds complicated. The 2.0 math curriculum is terrible. Why not just have him learn at home with good textbooks (traditional, not common core).

He might learn at home, but the problem is that my kid cannot enjoy the math class at school and is wasting a lot of time. That is so sad.

That is pretty much anyone with a middle income and half-involved parents. Problem is there are many poor families, non-English families and illegal aliens who struggle. Public school teaches to everyone. When MCPS used to track kids in math classes in elementary schools (prior to 2.0) this was never an issue. Having math classes all blended together with a few minutes at a reading table for a quick math lesson and an occasional enrichment sheet completely SUCKS. It also sucks for the struggling kids who do not have enough time with the teachers.

Why MCPS can not track math classes and change ratios based on levels, to teach kids in similar levels is beyond me. 30-1 for highest class, 25-1 for 2nd highest, 20-1 for 3rd highest, and 15-1 with lowest. Have the math specialist spend one day a week in the higher classes and 2 days a week in the lower class.

I mean if we stopped being so politically correct and TEACH the kids at their level in a class with peers at their level, everyone would benefit. Keeping the struggling kids in a class of 25+ kids is doing nothing to bring them up to speed, and they know it and it destroys their self esteem to see some annoying know-it all talk about how "easy" their work is. I volunteer in 1st grade and see it all the time. The combined math class are TERRIBLE.

[Anonymous]

To the previous poster who asked me about Math Kangaroo and Math Olympiad --

Yes, those are competitions, but you can get the types of questions that are on those contests from those websites or surfing the internet, and my son thinks those are fun. Also, mathforum.org is a fantastic website, which MCPS provides passwords for free IF you advocate for it with your school and teacher (this can take awhile, and you may be told that it is unavailable; but it is not that expensive to join yourself if you want to avoid that hassle), and has great, in-depth problems for all levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the previous poster who asked me about Math Kangaroo and Math Olympiad --

Yes, those are competitions, but you can get the types of questions that are on those contests from those websites or surfing the internet, and my son thinks those are fun. Also, mathforum.org is a fantastic website, which MCPS provides passwords for free IF you advocate for it with your school and teacher (this can take awhile, and you may be told that it is unavailable; but it is not that expensive to join yourself if you want to avoid that hassle), and has great, in-depth problems for all levels.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm the PP who asked. I will look into those sites.