I regret buying in ACPS...should we try to move before ES or wait until DC is older?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Again, someone who does not have their kids in ACPS. I am the person who wrote earlier about staying. OP, again, talk to people with kids in the school. Look up test scores on the VA and isolate out variables that do not apply to your kids such as being economically disadvantaged. How are kids of your child's demographic doing? I bet you will be surprised.

http://bi.virginia.gov/BuildATab/rdPage.aspx

If that's not a way to foster racism and give children a skewed view in life, I don't know what is. If your whte, high SES child does well in an ES, surrounded by poor performing non-white lower SES children, then that child will draw conclusions from that.

I'm not the OP, but this is what worries me most about the ACPS elementary within our zone (Mt Vernon). Dh and I are high SES minorities, with a 3 year old daughter. When I tell people that I'm worried about sending DD to a school where the minority students are not performing well, they say 'well that's a low SES issue and your daughter won't have that issue.' If I mention low expectations and stereotypes formed by the impression that minority students are poor performers (and statistically they are not doing well at this and several other ACPS schools), friends say 'oh, once the teachers meet you they will see that you are different ...' I plan to tour the schools and go to open houses, but there's a very good chance that we will choose private schools.

Mt. Vernon parent here: First, I cannot imagine that Mt Vernon parents are telling you that there are lower expectations re "minority" students (I put that in quotes because ethnic/racial minority students are the majority at our school). By way of example the recent spelling bees (one in Spanish, one in English) three of the top four were not white and that was not seen as unusual. There are high achieving, middle of the pack, and low achieving kids of every race/ethnicity at the school. Despite what people continually seem to say as a general proposition on this board, there is not a belief that minority = low performing at our school. Second, the blanket statement that "minority students are not performing well" is not necessarily accurate. If you are talking about SOL scores, I encourage you to look at the score breakdowns and compare them across schools. At least in the past (I haven't looked in a couple of years), on average minority students at Mt Vernon tended to score the same or higher than similar students at other schools. There are other issues that might give you pause: the school is really big (at more than 850 students); there is a sometimes significant transitory population (e.g., kids with no English transferring in the middle of the year) that can cause some disruption; the facility is old. We love the school, the teachers, the admin, the community, and the fact that our kids are bilingual - but we recognize that it might not be for everyone, and happily support friends who have chosen other ACPS schools or privates. But please don't think that the school community buys in to the stereotype of which you are afraid.

Thank you for posting. I hope to talk to parents and administrators at future school open houses to get more information; my neighbors have older kids and chose private schools, so they are not a good resource.

You are correct -- I have not met any MV parents who say there are low expectations for minority students; I doubt any white parent from any school would say that to me even if they privately held that opinion, as I'm AA. I was referring to general concerns that many parents of my ethnicity have about the perception of their children, based on national articles and studies regarding lower teacher expectations for certain minority students. I know a family who left another ACPS due to perceived low expectations for their child several years ago, but it was not MV.

That said, my comment about minority student performance is not a blanket statement based on DCUM commentary. I am quite familiar with the data regarding test scores, and unfortunately the information published online indicates that the pass rates broken down by race are notably different when compared by race and SES. The AA and Hispanic pass rates are significantly lower than those of white students, and at least for AAs they are lower than they are at some of the other relatively well regarded ACPS schools. Friends zoned for other schools or who chose private glibly say "oh don't worry, the Del Ray kids do great at MV." That may be true but I can't ignore the the common sense concern highlighted by a PP upthread --- i.e., if there is a significant achievement gap at the school, what impression does that give the students about how 'smart' minority students are, especially given the stereotypes that run rampant in our society (let alone the racist vitriol posted on DCUM)? The fact that the school has a large population of Hispanic students, making whites a minority, doesn't change that concern. It is reassuring and heartening to hear you say that there are students of every race & ethnicity at all levels of achievement, as I could not in good conscience send my child to a school where that wasn't true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually the Washington Post published the stats a year or so ago and the reason is that 60% of all Alexandrians are poor.

It is a myth that Alexandria City is full of wealthy people. It is full of some <b>very</b> wealthy people, a lot of upper middle class people who are tapped out paying high mortgages, a sprinkling of middle class people living in condos, a large amount of poor people living in public housing, Section 8, or too many people living in an older, lower cost market rate apartment.

Your tax dollars are going to supporting those poor people in the form of guaranteed public housing, Section 8 housing, food, clothing, hair cuts, tutoring, after school care, summer camp, school programs, rec and park programs, etc and so on. You haven't ever noticed the immense amount of free stuff that the city provides residents?

Fixed that. DH and I often ponder what the schools would be like if all of our VERY wealthy Seminary Hill neighbors sent their children to our local publics instead of the many expensive privates in Alexandria and elsewhere.

Actually no, there are very few "very" wealthy people and Seminary Hill is an upper middle class area but it's by no means at the level of wealth of say a similar looking neighborhood in Bethesda would be. Also, it's pretty well known that the very wealthy people rarely have school age children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Again, someone who does not have their kids in ACPS. I am the person who wrote earlier about staying. OP, again, talk to people with kids in the school. Look up test scores on the VA and isolate out variables that do not apply to your kids such as being economically disadvantaged. How are kids of your child's demographic doing? I bet you will be surprised.

http://bi.virginia.gov/BuildATab/rdPage.aspx

If that's not a way to foster racism and give children a skewed view in life, I don't know what is. If your whte, high SES child does well in an ES, surrounded by poor performing non-white lower SES children, then that child will draw conclusions from that.

I'm not the OP, but this is what worries me most about the ACPS elementary within our zone (Mt Vernon). Dh and I are high SES minorities, with a 3 year old daughter. When I tell people that I'm worried about sending DD to a school where the minority students are not performing well, they say 'well that's a low SES issue and your daughter won't have that issue.' If I mention low expectations and stereotypes formed by the impression that minority students are poor performers (and statistically they are not doing well at this and several other ACPS schools), friends say 'oh, once the teachers meet you they will see that you are different ...' I plan to tour the schools and go to open houses, but there's a very good chance that we will choose private schools.

Mt. Vernon parent here: First, I cannot imagine that Mt Vernon parents are telling you that there are lower expectations re "minority" students (I put that in quotes because ethnic/racial minority students are the majority at our school). By way of example the recent spelling bees (one in Spanish, one in English) three of the top four were not white and that was not seen as unusual. There are high achieving, middle of the pack, and low achieving kids of every race/ethnicity at the school. Despite what people continually seem to say as a general proposition on this board, there is not a belief that minority = low performing at our school. Second, the blanket statement that "minority students are not performing well" is not necessarily accurate. If you are talking about SOL scores, I encourage you to look at the score breakdowns and compare them across schools. At least in the past (I haven't looked in a couple of years), on average minority students at Mt Vernon tended to score the same or higher than similar students at other schools. There are other issues that might give you pause: the school is really big (at more than 850 students); there is a sometimes significant transitory population (e.g., kids with no English transferring in the middle of the year) that can cause some disruption; the facility is old. We love the school, the teachers, the admin, the community, and the fact that our kids are bilingual - but we recognize that it might not be for everyone, and happily support friends who have chosen other ACPS schools or privates. But please don't think that the school community buys in to the stereotype of which you are afraid.

Thank you for posting. I hope to talk to parents and administrators at future school open houses to get more information; my neighbors have older kids and chose private schools, so they are not a good resource.

You are correct -- I have not met any MV parents who say there are low expectations for minority students; I doubt any white parent from any school would say that to me even if they privately held that opinion, as I'm AA. I was referring to general concerns that many parents of my ethnicity have about the perception of their children, based on national articles and studies regarding lower teacher expectations for certain minority students. I know a family who left another ACPS due to perceived low expectations for their child several years ago, but it was not MV.

That said, my comment about minority student performance is not a blanket statement based on DCUM commentary. I am quite familiar with the data regarding test scores, and unfortunately the information published online indicates that the pass rates broken down by race are notably different when compared by race and SES. The AA and Hispanic pass rates are significantly lower than those of white students, and at least for AAs they are lower than they are at some of the other relatively well regarded ACPS schools. Friends zoned for other schools or who chose private glibly say "oh don't worry, the Del Ray kids do great at MV." That may be true but I can't ignore the the common sense concern highlighted by a PP upthread --- i.e., if there is a significant achievement gap at the school, what impression does that give the students about how 'smart' minority students are, especially given the stereotypes that run rampant in our society (let alone the racist vitriol posted on DCUM)? The fact that the school has a large population of Hispanic students, making whites a minority, doesn't change that concern. It is reassuring and heartening to hear you say that there are students of every race & ethnicity at all levels of achievement, as I could not in good conscience send my child to a school where that wasn't true.

As a white parent, I think you have every right to be concerned about this issue and I find it awful the way the mostly white school board continues to derail any attempt at putting in place classes and programs for high achieving students with the reasoning that minority students would be left out. They are basically saying that minority students could not possibly be smart enough to be able to test into an honors class. They continue to keep the bar so incredibly low. And you are right, what message does this send to their white peers and to white parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Again, someone who does not have their kids in ACPS. I am the person who wrote earlier about staying. OP, again, talk to people with kids in the school. Look up test scores on the VA and isolate out variables that do not apply to your kids such as being economically disadvantaged. How are kids of your child's demographic doing? I bet you will be surprised.

http://bi.virginia.gov/BuildATab/rdPage.aspx

If that's not a way to foster racism and give children a skewed view in life, I don't know what is. If your whte, high SES child does well in an ES, surrounded by poor performing non-white lower SES children, then that child will draw conclusions from that.

I'm not the OP, but this is what worries me most about the ACPS elementary within our zone (Mt Vernon). Dh and I are high SES minorities, with a 3 year old daughter. When I tell people that I'm worried about sending DD to a school where the minority students are not performing well, they say 'well that's a low SES issue and your daughter won't have that issue.' If I mention low expectations and stereotypes formed by the impression that minority students are poor performers (and statistically they are not doing well at this and several other ACPS schools), friends say 'oh, once the teachers meet you they will see that you are different ...' I plan to tour the schools and go to open houses, but there's a very good chance that we will choose private schools.

Mt. Vernon parent here: First, I cannot imagine that Mt Vernon parents are telling you that there are lower expectations re "minority" students (I put that in quotes because ethnic/racial minority students are the majority at our school). By way of example the recent spelling bees (one in Spanish, one in English) three of the top four were not white and that was not seen as unusual. There are high achieving, middle of the pack, and low achieving kids of every race/ethnicity at the school. Despite what people continually seem to say as a general proposition on this board, there is not a belief that minority = low performing at our school. Second, the blanket statement that "minority students are not performing well" is not necessarily accurate. If you are talking about SOL scores, I encourage you to look at the score breakdowns and compare them across schools. At least in the past (I haven't looked in a couple of years), on average minority students at Mt Vernon tended to score the same or higher than similar students at other schools. There are other issues that might give you pause: the school is really big (at more than 850 students); there is a sometimes significant transitory population (e.g., kids with no English transferring in the middle of the year) that can cause some disruption; the facility is old. We love the school, the teachers, the admin, the community, and the fact that our kids are bilingual - but we recognize that it might not be for everyone, and happily support friends who have chosen other ACPS schools or privates. But please don't think that the school community buys in to the stereotype of which you are afraid.

Thank you for posting. I hope to talk to parents and administrators at future school open houses to get more information; my neighbors have older kids and chose private schools, so they are not a good resource.

You are correct -- I have not met any MV parents who say there are low expectations for minority students; I doubt any white parent from any school would say that to me even if they privately held that opinion, as I'm AA. I was referring to general concerns that many parents of my ethnicity have about the perception of their children, based on national articles and studies regarding lower teacher expectations for certain minority students. I know a family who left another ACPS due to perceived low expectations for their child several years ago, but it was not MV.

That said, my comment about minority student performance is not a blanket statement based on DCUM commentary. I am quite familiar with the data regarding test scores, and unfortunately the information published online indicates that the pass rates broken down by race are notably different when compared by race and SES. The AA and Hispanic pass rates are significantly lower than those of white students, and at least for AAs they are lower than they are at some of the other relatively well regarded ACPS schools. Friends zoned for other schools or who chose private glibly say "oh don't worry, the Del Ray kids do great at MV." That may be true but I can't ignore the the common sense concern highlighted by a PP upthread --- i.e., if there is a significant achievement gap at the school, what impression does that give the students about how 'smart' minority students are, especially given the stereotypes that run rampant in our society (let alone the racist vitriol posted on DCUM)? The fact that the school has a large population of Hispanic students, making whites a minority, doesn't change that concern. It is reassuring and heartening to hear you say that there are students of every race & ethnicity at all levels of achievement, as I could not in good conscience send my child to a school where that wasn't true.

As a white parent, I think you have every right to be concerned about this issue and I find it awful the way the mostly white school board continues to derail any attempt at putting in place classes and programs for high achieving students with the reasoning that minority students would be left out. They are basically saying that minority students could not possibly be smart enough to be able to test into an honors class. They continue to keep the bar so incredibly low. And you are right, what message does this send to their white peers and to white parents?

Most but not all Alexandria City residents continue to vote en group as a very liberal democratic populous, helped by Council stacking the deck every four years in November with ballots of like minded democrats. As is being shown in national politics, in the long run a truer democracy works better with a balance of people and parties being represented with differing views. For at least three decades, ACPS has languished at the bottom of Virginia school systems all under a Democratic Council and Board. Don't expect improvement of ACPS until ACPS School Board and City Council get a robust two-party group of intelligent representatives who truly understand the need for compromise in views and a new approach to ACPS. At the rate the taxes and add on utilities and taxes are going, if the schools languish much longer, expect an exodus of residents and a further spiraling down effect in the school system. If Alexandrians can't or won't understand this, they are just, well, stupid.

[Anonymous]

My child is at a west end school in ACPS. I suggest you ask for a tour of the school that your child will attend. GS ratings do not mean a lot. If I had believed the ratings we would not have found a school that we love. Our school has great teachers and my child is happy there. Meet the principal, ask to see the classrooms and look at the interactions between the children and the teachers. Our school is high SES but that means extra programs and a lot of resources that my child would not have if they went to a school that had a more affluent population.

I suggest you attend some events and get to know some of the parents. They will tell you everything you need to know. Go see for yourself and do what your instincts tell you.