Second community meeting on Choice Study?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:a lot of people seem not to understand it's not that these magnet students get lucky to be in such excellent programs. They are the ones who made the programs excellent. Those who think replacing the student body with groups based on their other status or talent other than academic talent and keeping everything else the same would maintain the programs at the same level of excellence are just fooling themselves.

No, my kid who is currently in the HGC is not making the program excellent. I'd like to think so, of course! But actually she's not. If my kid had not been admitted and one of the other kids in her home-school class had, the program would still be excellent.

[Anonymous]

I am for removing all programs and tracking gifted kids in their cluster ONLY. The programs are by luck and it is not fair to those that don't get in but try just as hard. If parents truly want immersion and not trying to get out of their school and get in an involved class/school (which 90% of them are) than they should just apply to the many private immersion schools and request FA if they can not afford it. The immersion program needs to die.

Gifted kids in each cluster school can hop on their MS bus in AM for an advance class 8-9am and then get bused to their ES school in AM. They need to go back to TRACKING the ES students instead of this pulling out into reading and math groups. It is bad for the struggling kids, the average kids and the advanced kids. Track them and leave the para/learning specialist in the lowest class (with the lowest ratio) to get everyone bumped up EARLY and QUICKLY starting right in Kindergarten. Right now, everyone gets about 10 minutes of the teacher's time per 1.5hrs and the only kids getting better are the kids whose parents supplement at home - mainly higher SES - and so the gap continues to widen. Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:a lot of people seem not to understand it's not that these magnet students get lucky to be in such excellent programs. They are the ones who made the programs excellent. Those who think replacing the student body with groups based on their other status or talent other than academic talent and keeping everything else the same would maintain the programs at the same level of excellence are just fooling themselves.

No, my kid who is currently in the HGC is not making the program excellent. I'd like to think so, of course! But actually she's not. If my kid had not been admitted and one of the other kids in her home-school class had, the program would still be excellent.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the hate for the immersion programs. Admission is by lottery (family link aside). The marginal extra cost is minimal. And why shouldn't MCPS offer immersion programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

My white kid is at the HGC and got a 4/5. Or maybe a 5/4, I don't remember which. Anyway, not a 5/5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

My white kid is at the HGC and got a 4/5. Or maybe a 5/4, I don't remember which. Anyway, not a 5/5.

What's your point? I bet there are more than 10 AA/Hispanic students in each magnet program grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

My white kid is at the HGC and got a 4/5. Or maybe a 5/4, I don't remember which. Anyway, not a 5/5.

I don't think the previous point was that all the kids in the HGC got 5's, but that the ratio of high achievers in each of the populations is radically different. The number of White and Hispanic kids are roughly the same, but there are ~30-40 times as many White kids scoring at the top of the PARCC compared to Hispanic kids. With this kind of distribution, how is is possible to bump up the number of Black and Hispanic kids to match the population percentages and maintain the same standards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

There were 122 black 4th graders who scored 5 on last year's PARCC. DD was one of them. She is not in compacted math. None of the white students in her grade at her school who are in compacted math scored 5 on the PARCC math. Does that say something about the selection process? Does it say something about the quality of instruction in compacted math?
No one is saying to allow underachieving black and latino kids into accelerated programs. But there are high achieving black and latino students who are not being included.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There were 122 black 4th graders who scored 5 on last year's PARCC. DD was one of them. She is not in compacted math. None of the white students in her grade at her school who are in compacted math scored 5 on the PARCC math. Does that say something about the selection process? Does it say something about the quality of instruction in compacted math?
No one is saying to allow underachieving black and latino kids into accelerated programs. But there are high achieving black and latino students who are not being included.

So she was excluded since she is black? My neighbors daughter is white and she was originally excluded. The process is not perfect but way better than
a) not having a process
or
b) admitting based on race quotas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

My white kid is at the HGC and got a 4/5. Or maybe a 5/4, I don't remember which. Anyway, not a 5/5.

I don't think the previous point was that all the kids in the HGC got 5's, but that the ratio of high achievers in each of the populations is radically different. The number of White and Hispanic kids are roughly the same, but there are ~30-40 times as many White kids scoring at the top of the PARCC compared to Hispanic kids. With this kind of distribution, how is is possible to bump up the number of Black and Hispanic kids to match the population percentages and maintain the same standards?

But evidently the PARCC scores are not a good measure of --well, let's call it HGC potential. Given that there are kids who did not score 5/5 on the PARCC test who are in an HGC, and I bet that there are some kids who did score 5/5 in the PARCC tests who are not in an HGC.

Plus, "should the demographics of the HGC be the same as the demographics of the county as a whole" and "could the demographics of the HGC be more like the demographics of the county as a whole" are two different questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

There were 122 black 4th graders who scored 5 on last year's PARCC. DD was one of them. She is not in compacted math. None of the white students in her grade at her school who are in compacted math scored 5 on the PARCC math. Does that say something about the selection process? Does it say something about the quality of instruction in compacted math?
No one is saying to allow underachieving black and latino kids into accelerated programs. But there are high achieving black and latino students who are not being included.

If a black/hispanic kid scored really high on the HGC entrance exam, I highly doubt that this student wouldn't be admitted. BTW, there are Black kids in my DC's HGC group. So, yes, I know there are those who score high enough to get in. If you think there's some racial bias by teachers, then we should get rid of teacher recommendation, and go strictly by test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There were 122 black 4th graders who scored 5 on last year's PARCC. DD was one of them. She is not in compacted math. None of the white students in her grade at her school who are in compacted math scored 5 on the PARCC math. Does that say something about the selection process? Does it say something about the quality of instruction in compacted math?
No one is saying to allow underachieving black and latino kids into accelerated programs. But there are high achieving black and latino students who are not being included.

So she was excluded since she is black? My neighbors daughter is white and she was originally excluded. The process is not perfect but way better than
a) not having a process
or
b) admitting based on race quotas

Those are both straw men. Nobody is advocating admission without an admission process. And nobody is advocating admission based on race quotas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were 122 black 4th graders who scored 5 on last year's PARCC. DD was one of them. She is not in compacted math. None of the white students in her grade at her school who are in compacted math scored 5 on the PARCC math. Does that say something about the selection process? Does it say something about the quality of instruction in compacted math?
No one is saying to allow underachieving black and latino kids into accelerated programs. But there are high achieving black and latino students who are not being included.

If a black/hispanic kid scored really high on the HGC entrance exam, I highly doubt that this student wouldn't be admitted. BTW, there are Black kids in my DC's HGC group. So, yes, I know there are those who score high enough to get in. If you think there's some racial bias by teachers, then we should get rid of teacher recommendation, and go strictly by test scores.

Why do you doubt this?

And what about PP's point that there are high achieving black and Latino students who are not being included? Everybody on DCUM keeps saying OMG the only way to admit more black and Latino students is to water down the program because (choose one)

1. black and Latino students are not high-achieving
2. all of the high-achieving black and Latino students are already in the HGC

But neither is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's laughable that someone would think the magnet program should reflect the demographics of the county. If that's what mcps is after, then those programs should be removed indeed.

Why is it laughable? I'm not laughing.

Just look at test scores by demographics. That is the answer

http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Entity.aspx?K=15AAAA

According to PARCC results, there were ~2400 Black and ~3450 Hispanic students in grade 3 in MCPS 2015 school year. Fewer than 10 students met "level 5: exceeded expectations" in both Math and reading in each group.
There were ~1600 Asians, 389/185 met in math/reading. ~3500 White, 472/316 met in math/reading. These are the base for the 4th grade HGC. I will be a genius's task to achieve racial-balance in HGC without hurting the quality of the program.

My white kid is at the HGC and got a 4/5. Or maybe a 5/4, I don't remember which. Anyway, not a 5/5.

I don't think the previous point was that all the kids in the HGC got 5's, but that the ratio of high achievers in each of the populations is radically different. The number of White and Hispanic kids are roughly the same, but there are ~30-40 times as many White kids scoring at the top of the PARCC compared to Hispanic kids. With this kind of distribution, how is is possible to bump up the number of Black and Hispanic kids to match the population percentages and maintain the same standards?

But evidently the PARCC scores are not a good measure of --well, let's call it HGC potential. Given that there are kids who did not score 5/5 on the PARCC test who are in an HGC, and I bet that there are some kids who did score 5/5 in the PARCC tests who are not in an HGC.

Plus, "should the demographics of the HGC be the same as the demographics of the county as a whole" and "could the demographics of the HGC be more like the demographics of the county as a whole" are two different questions.

How many kids in the HGC do you think scored a 1 or 2 on the PARCC? I'd guess 0. I'd bet it's a very good, albeit not perfect, measure of HGC potential. I think everybody should be tested and then the top scoring kids can be offered spots. I'm not sure that this would necessarily lead to HGC's that look more like the county though.