"AAP is not a gifted program"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are kidding yourself if you think our kids are getting an advanced education in AAP. The stuff they are doing is nowhere near as creative as the average public school in Minnesota. I had the privelege of attending an American school overseas, and learned the hard way that America is ridiculously behind the rest of the world when it comes to education.

FCPS has watered down the AAP program so it is almost just regular school with more homework. The ONLY real difference is possible exposure to more advanced math, if that happens to be your child's area.

- signed parent of two AAP students who is not impressed

My sister lives in Colorado, and at her middle school (West) in the Cherry Creek School district, there are sixth graders walking over to the nearby high school (Cherry Creek) for Calculus.

People who think AAP is the premier gifted program in the country are deluding themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are kidding yourself if you think our kids are getting an advanced education in AAP. The stuff they are doing is nowhere near as creative as the average public school in Minnesota. I had the privelege of attending an American school overseas, and learned the hard way that America is ridiculously behind the rest of the world when it comes to education.

FCPS has watered down the AAP program so it is almost just regular school with more homework. The ONLY real difference is possible exposure to more advanced math, if that happens to be your child's area.

- signed parent of two AAP students who is not impressed

My sister lives in Colorado, and at her middle school (West) in the Cherry Creek School district, there are sixth graders walking over to the nearby high school (Cherry Creek) for Calculus.

People who think AAP is the premier gifted program in the country are deluding themselves.

Sorry, meant Campus Middle School. They can walk. The kids from West carpool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are kidding yourself if you think our kids are getting an advanced education in AAP. The stuff they are doing is nowhere near as creative as the average public school in Minnesota. I had the privelege of attending an American school overseas, and learned the hard way that America is ridiculously behind the rest of the world when it comes to education.

FCPS has watered down the AAP program so it is almost just regular school with more homework. The ONLY real difference is possible exposure to more advanced math, if that happens to be your child's area.

- signed parent of two AAP students who is not impressed

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And btw you're the one who wants a lower proportion of AA kids in AAP by making it more restrictive.

No, you are missing the point. The program should be treated like a special needs program. Kids that are so advanced they aren't really able to participate in regular classrooms should be placed in an environment that helps them achieve their potential.

The rest of them should be TOGETHER. Helping each other, learning from each other, challenging each other. The idea is to bring the bottom UP, not the top DOWN.

Be careful for what you wish. If the gifted program were treated like special education, then Least Restrictive Environment would prevail and it would lead to the end of the Center model and the local level IV program would be it - with the exception of a handful of students and they would be bused across the county to the one program that meets their needs.

I would be OK with this if there were at least a few centers so the commute wasn't so long for DC.

You gotta love the posts that go from AAP kids v. base kids to my AAP kid really NEEDS the program, but most others do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than Montgomery County which spends considerably more per child than FCPS and doesn't teach advanced math in general ed, what other school systems are teaching advanced instruction better than FCPS?

Palo Alto. Cambridge MA. Oak Park / River Forest IL.

You really need to know what you're talking about before you hold up FCPS as the national standard.
http://www.op97.org/teach-learn/Elementary-School.cfm

NP here. Genuinely curious about the programs you listed. How do they do screening, and what kind of services do they provide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than Montgomery County which spends considerably more per child than FCPS and doesn't teach advanced math in general ed, what other school systems are teaching advanced instruction better than FCPS?

Palo Alto. Cambridge MA. Oak Park / River Forest IL.

You really need to know what you're talking about before you hold up FCPS as the national standard.
http://www.op97.org/teach-learn/Elementary-School.cfm

NP here. Genuinely curious about the programs you listed. How do they do screening, and what kind of services do they provide?

I'm not the person who shared that link, but I did click on it. It details the screening process and the service model. I like the identification process:

Students are required to meet two out of the three criteria listed below.
MAP Assessment 95% + on 2 of the most 3 recent assessments
CogAT Standard Age Score 130-150
Teacher Observation Checklist Reviewed by GTDs

Seems clear, and allows for aptitude, attitude and performance without overweighting any. It also allows for students to be ID'd in either Math or Language Arts, and placed appropriately. In AAP, there are students who are amazing at one but not the other, yet all get lumped in.

I'm not sure why people are adamant that AAP is the "best" model and anything else would be impossible to administer or be sub par.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than Montgomery County which spends considerably more per child than FCPS and doesn't teach advanced math in general ed, what other school systems are teaching advanced instruction better than FCPS?

Palo Alto. Cambridge MA. Oak Park / River Forest IL.

You really need to know what you're talking about before you hold up FCPS as the national standard.
http://www.op97.org/teach-learn/Elementary-School.cfm

NP here. Genuinely curious about the programs you listed. How do they do screening, and what kind of services do they provide?

I'm not the person who shared that link, but I did click on it. It details the screening process and the service model. I like the identification process:

Students are required to meet two out of the three criteria listed below.
MAP Assessment 95% + on 2 of the most 3 recent assessments
CogAT Standard Age Score 130-150
Teacher Observation Checklist Reviewed by GTDs

Seems clear, and allows for aptitude, attitude and performance without overweighting any. It also allows for students to be ID'd in either Math or Language Arts, and placed appropriately. In AAP, there are students who are amazing at one but not the other, yet all get lumped in.

I'm not sure why people are adamant that AAP is the "best" model and anything else would be impossible to administer or be sub par.

+1

Everything can be improved.

[Anonymous]

everything can be dis-improved, too. I'm not convinced that subject-specific acceleration (which seems to be the point of at least two of the three programs named) is better than overall grouping. I think it's positive to have a peer group and work across subjects.

[Anonymous]

Wow y'all.

We moved here last year from Edmond, OK, and people really need to take a step back and realize Fairfax County is no different than many, many other areas that have pockets of well-educated, relatively affluent populations. (Sorry, but it's true.) Fairfax has a very unusual delivery model with AAP that is not a reflection of how many "brilliant" kids that are here or that they have unusual needs vs. kids across the country, but because it has morphed into a behemoth to accommodate pushy parents.

In Edmond more than 30% of the school population is identified as gifted. The in-school services are superb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:everything can be dis-improved, too. I'm not convinced that subject-specific acceleration (which seems to be the point of at least two of the three programs named) is better than overall grouping. I think it's positive to have a peer group and work across subjects.

Tracking? That practice has been dismantled everywhere and teachers are against it.

http://www.nea.org/tools/16899.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And btw you're the one who wants a lower proportion of AA kids in AAP by making it more restrictive.

No, you are missing the point. The program should be treated like a special needs program. Kids that are so advanced they aren't really able to participate in regular classrooms should be placed in an environment that helps them achieve their potential.

The rest of them should be TOGETHER. Helping each other, learning from each other, challenging each other. The idea is to bring the bottom UP, not the top DOWN.

Be careful for what you wish. If the gifted program were treated like special education, then Least Restrictive Environment would prevail and it would lead to the end of the Center model and the local level IV program would be it - with the exception of a handful of students and they would be bused across the county to the one program that meets their needs.

I would be OK with this if there were at least a few centers so the commute wasn't so long for DC.

Special ed students frequently have long commutes to get to their programs. I don't see why it would any different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And btw you're the one who wants a lower proportion of AA kids in AAP by making it more restrictive.

No, you are missing the point. The program should be treated like a special needs program. Kids that are so advanced they aren't really able to participate in regular classrooms should be placed in an environment that helps them achieve their potential.

The rest of them should be TOGETHER. Helping each other, learning from each other, challenging each other. The idea is to bring the bottom UP, not the top DOWN.

Be careful for what you wish. If the gifted program were treated like special education, then Least Restrictive Environment would prevail and it would lead to the end of the Center model and the local level IV program would be it - with the exception of a handful of students and they would be bused across the county to the one program that meets their needs.

I would be OK with this if there were at least a few centers so the commute wasn't so long for DC.

Special ed students frequently have long commutes to get to their programs. I don't see why it would any different.

But do they have a single facility? I didn't say one in every pyramid, I said at least a few for the whole county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And btw you're the one who wants a lower proportion of AA kids in AAP by making it more restrictive.

No, you are missing the point. The program should be treated like a special needs program. Kids that are so advanced they aren't really able to participate in regular classrooms should be placed in an environment that helps them achieve their potential.

The rest of them should be TOGETHER. Helping each other, learning from each other, challenging each other. The idea is to bring the bottom UP, not the top DOWN.

What "bringing the bottom up" meant in another state was that my second grader spent nearly the first half of the year tutoring first graders and kindergartners in how to read instead of learning anything from his grade level teacher. He literally would be sent to various lower grade classes every reading class. Sometimes he would complete a worksheet before going but being used as a teaching assistant was a daily occurance. When I complained, the teacher spouted off much of the same lines as are in your last sentence. My favorite was "But he is learning so much by sitting with the other kids and teaching them to read" Umm...no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And btw you're the one who wants a lower proportion of AA kids in AAP by making it more restrictive.

No, you are missing the point. The program should be treated like a special needs program. Kids that are so advanced they aren't really able to participate in regular classrooms should be placed in an environment that helps them achieve their potential.

The rest of them should be TOGETHER. Helping each other, learning from each other, challenging each other. The idea is to bring the bottom UP, not the top DOWN.

Be careful for what you wish. If the gifted program were treated like special education, then Least Restrictive Environment would prevail and it would lead to the end of the Center model and the local level IV program would be it - with the exception of a handful of students and they would be bused across the county to the one program that meets their needs.

I would be OK with this if there were at least a few centers so the commute wasn't so long for DC.

Special ed students frequently have long commutes to get to their programs. I don't see why it would any different.

But do they have a single facility? I didn't say one in every pyramid, I said at least a few for the whole county.

Some programs have only one site. I don't see why it would be any different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow y'all.

We moved here last year from Edmond, OK, and people really need to take a step back and realize Fairfax County is no different than many, many other areas that have pockets of well-educated, relatively affluent populations. (Sorry, but it's true.) Fairfax has a very unusual delivery model with AAP that is not a reflection of how many "brilliant" kids that are here or that they have unusual needs vs. kids across the country, but because it has morphed into a behemoth to accommodate pushy parents.

In Edmond more than 30% of the school population is identified as gifted. The in-school services are superb.

Fairfax County has superb in school services with advanced math, differentiation and level three pull outs. They also have superb services with the level four centers for the kids at the top.

The drama is mostly fueled by parent jealousy, particularly on dcum.