Caitlyn Jenner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She looks amazing! I am happy for her - if you watch the video clip from Vanity Fair, she talks about not having any secrets now that this cover is out. What a weight off that much be, secrets really can eat away at you, and I've never had a secret as serious as this one.

Now, that said - on the last thread on this topic, I have to admit, the points being made about body dysmorphic disorder were thought-provoking. People raised some good points. I don't think shutting that conversation down with "bigot" or "mean" is very useful, because I think it's a pretty valid question. Now of course, some people are posing the question hatefully, and that's not right.

But, what I decided after thinking about that (and that thread was the first time I'd ever considered the question) - is I'm going to leave it to the experts. It seems like right now, the vast majority of the mental health profession accepts transgender as a true biological "mistake" rather than a mental illness. And I do think that there is a continuum of gender, from tomboys to prissy girls, from flaming dudes to manly men. So it makes sense to me that people could have been "assigned" a certain section of that continuum, and it was a wrong assignment. I'm going to go ahead and live with more peace and love, and also trust in mental health professionals.

But I do find the dysmorphic disorder question a very interesting one, and I think it's a reasonable conversation to have when you're not talking to someone actively going through a transition.

+1

[Anonymous]

She looks amazing. Why be hateful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't change DNA. Sorry, Bruce.

Very few of us aren't fake ass bitches.

Myself, I'm Mediterranean. Can't change my DNA prone to massive hirsuteness, but damn well better believe I'll try and remove what I can to be a happier person, while harming absolutely no one in the process.

That's fine, but you probably don't expect people to believe you no longer have a Mediterranean background.

Really, this isn't difficult.

I've never heard a transgender person ask people to deny their past, or even DNA. Just to acknowledge who they choose to be. Sorry it affects you so much?

Would PP say "I'm no longer Mediterranean?" Because Bruce Jenner is saying "I'm no longer a man." Wow, this is so simple!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the responses on this thread just show how far we have to go on this issue. People openly spewed the same hateful and ignorant garbage about interracial marriage and gay people just a generation or two ago. You all are on the wrong side of history and really need to educate yourselves.

Leaving that aside, don't love the name Caitlyn but she looks great on the cover.

Oh please.

I am supposed to think this is normal because it is on the cover of vanity fair???

It isn't. it is weird and slightly gross.

Do what you want to do - get a sex change, wear dresses, have sex with animals for all I care, but I don't have to consider your behaviors a normal part of society because pop culture says so.

I won't persecute you for it but I will certainly judge you and think you have mental problems.

Well many of us think people like you have mental problems too. Seriously. I read something like what you wrote and I think "wow, that person 1. isn't all intelligent, 2. isn't all that empathic, 3. probably has some mental health issues that don't allow them to critically think an issue through or see beyond their own nose or experience." So don't worry, we think it about you too.

Meh. Judge me how you want.

I just think it is SO hypocritical of you all when you say "Let her be who she wants to be! Don't be so judgmental!" but you are judgmental of me judging him.

Like I said, do what you want Bruce - and whomever else - I wouldn't treat him badly or differently when I saw him in person. I wouldn't hurt him or not sell him something'or provide a service, but I think it is weird and I think he has mental problems. That is all.

On my way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's see - a month or so ago, during The Interview, he said that he wasn't going to change his name now.

I guess the publicity is dying down.

Yep!

These Kardashians just can't stay out of the spotlight!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't change DNA. Sorry, Bruce.

Very few of us aren't fake ass bitches.

Myself, I'm Mediterranean. Can't change my DNA prone to massive hirsuteness, but damn well better believe I'll try and remove what I can to be a happier person, while harming absolutely no one in the process.

That's fine, but you probably don't expect people to believe you no longer have a Mediterranean background.

Really, this isn't difficult.

I've never heard a transgender person ask people to deny their past, or even DNA. Just to acknowledge who they choose to be. Sorry it affects you so much?

Would PP say "I'm no longer Mediterranean?" Because Bruce Jenner is saying "I'm no longer a man." Wow, this is so simple!

No, I'd say despite being born Mediterranean and hairy, I'm going forward with trying to be not hairy.

Just like a transgender person might say "despite being born male, I'm going forward with trying to be a woman."

Do you really not know the difference between gender and sex? It's really very simple, actually.

Seriously, why on earth do you hold such strong opinions on this? Why does how someone defines themselves, affect you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't change DNA. Sorry, Bruce.

Very few of us aren't fake ass bitches.

Myself, I'm Mediterranean. Can't change my DNA prone to massive hirsuteness, but damn well better believe I'll try and remove what I can to be a happier person, while harming absolutely no one in the process.

That's fine, but you probably don't expect people to believe you no longer have a Mediterranean background.

Really, this isn't difficult.

I've never heard a transgender person ask people to deny their past, or even DNA. Just to acknowledge who they choose to be. Sorry it affects you so much?

Would PP say "I'm no longer Mediterranean?" Because Bruce Jenner is saying "I'm no longer a man." Wow, this is so simple!

No, I'd say despite being born Mediterranean and hairy, I'm going forward with trying to be not hairy.

Just like a transgender person might say "despite being born male, I'm going forward with trying to be a woman."

Do you really not know the difference between gender and sex? It's really very simple, actually.

Seriously, why on earth do you hold such strong opinions on this? Why does how someone defines themselves, affect you?

Because when one person can convince a host of other people to believe something that is clearly the direct opposite of reality, we have a very large societal problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the responses on this thread just show how far we have to go on this issue. People openly spewed the same hateful and ignorant garbage about interracial marriage and gay people just a generation or two ago. You all are on the wrong side of history and really need to educate yourselves.

Leaving that aside, don't love the name Caitlyn but she looks great on the cover.

Oh please.

I am supposed to think this is normal because it is on the cover of vanity fair???

It isn't. it is weird and slightly gross.

Do what you want to do - get a sex change, wear dresses, have sex with animals for all I care, but I don't have to consider your behaviors a normal part of society because pop culture says so.

I won't persecute you for it but I will certainly judge you and think you have mental problems.

Well many of us think people like you have mental problems too. Seriously. I read something like what you wrote and I think "wow, that person 1. isn't all intelligent, 2. isn't all that empathic, 3. probably has some mental health issues that don't allow them to critically think an issue through or see beyond their own nose or experience." So don't worry, we think it about you too.

Meh. Judge me how you want.

I just think it is SO hypocritical of you all when you say "Let her be who she wants to be! Don't be so judgmental!" but you are judgmental of me judging him.

Like I said, do what you want Bruce - and whomever else - I wouldn't treat him badly or differently when I saw him in person. I wouldn't hurt him or not sell him something'or provide a service, but I think it is weird and I think he has mental problems. That is all.

On my way.

But let me guess: you would still refer to her as Bruce, call her him, etc, right? In that case, you would in fact treat her badly, you would in fact hurt her. And I suspect you're the PP from above saying "but he's saying he's no longer man, it's so simple." What Caitlyn has said all along is that he was never a man. I know you don't want to hear it, but that's what she has said all along, since the age of 8, that she was never a man, just given the outer packages of a man. So it's not that she's "no longer a man," it's that she's finally displaying outwardly what has always been inside. And yes, I'll judge you for judging someone who isn't hurting you. It's so simple!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't change DNA. Sorry, Bruce.

Very few of us aren't fake ass bitches.

Myself, I'm Mediterranean. Can't change my DNA prone to massive hirsuteness, but damn well better believe I'll try and remove what I can to be a happier person, while harming absolutely no one in the process.

That's fine, but you probably don't expect people to believe you no longer have a Mediterranean background.

Really, this isn't difficult.

I've never heard a transgender person ask people to deny their past, or even DNA. Just to acknowledge who they choose to be. Sorry it affects you so much?

Would PP say "I'm no longer Mediterranean?" Because Bruce Jenner is saying "I'm no longer a man." Wow, this is so simple!

No, I'd say despite being born Mediterranean and hairy, I'm going forward with trying to be not hairy.

Just like a transgender person might say "despite being born male, I'm going forward with trying to be a woman."

Do you really not know the difference between gender and sex? It's really very simple, actually.

Seriously, why on earth do you hold such strong opinions on this? Why does how someone defines themselves, affect you?

Because when one person can convince a host of other people to believe something that is clearly the direct opposite of reality, we have a very large societal problem.

What "societal problem?" Can you explain that, and how it personally affects you?

[Anonymous]

Just like a transgender person might say "despite being born male, I'm going forward with trying to be a woman."

"Trying." is the operative word. You didn't mean to, I'm sure, but you said it right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't change DNA. Sorry, Bruce.

Very few of us aren't fake ass bitches.

Myself, I'm Mediterranean. Can't change my DNA prone to massive hirsuteness, but damn well better believe I'll try and remove what I can to be a happier person, while harming absolutely no one in the process.

That's fine, but you probably don't expect people to believe you no longer have a Mediterranean background.

Really, this isn't difficult.

I've never heard a transgender person ask people to deny their past, or even DNA. Just to acknowledge who they choose to be. Sorry it affects you so much?

Would PP say "I'm no longer Mediterranean?" Because Bruce Jenner is saying "I'm no longer a man." Wow, this is so simple!

No, I'd say despite being born Mediterranean and hairy, I'm going forward with trying to be not hairy.

Just like a transgender person might say "despite being born male, I'm going forward with trying to be a woman."

Do you really not know the difference between gender and sex? It's really very simple, actually.

Seriously, why on earth do you hold such strong opinions on this? Why does how someone defines themselves, affect you?

Because when one person can convince a host of other people to believe something that is clearly the direct opposite of reality, we have a very large societal problem.

Who's reality? Yours? Sorry, not buying it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of you who are applauding Bruce Jenner would say to an anorexic "Hey, you really ARE fat! Go on and starve to death, you go girl!"

No, you would get them treatment, not celebrate their body dysmorphic disorder.

We'll see how many people here can intelligently approach this, and not just say "bigot," "shut up", or similar things.

Maybe it is too simple, but one won't kill you. Strictly speaking yes both are forms of BDD. But gender constructs DO go much past the physical body so I can't say that its ONLY BDD in this case, its just a single part of that puzzle. Much like anorexia isn't solely about BDD but often about control and other links to OCD type disorders.

If someone has BDD and deems themselves to be the most amazing looking man on the planet despite being plain or even ugly it might make for an annoying personality but it won't kill the person. If someone feels gender dysmorphic and changes it similarly won't kill the person. If someone has BDD and intends to refuse food of any kind indefinitely it will indeed kill that person.

Treat what needs to be treated. Not what doesn't.

He did get treatment, by the way. It's called transitioning. She's now no longer in need of treatment because she's living the way she always needed to live. And like PP said, one is going to kill you because you are literally killing yourself. The other isn't. That's about as simplistic an explanation as your question was.

Sorry immediate PP, I just realized it sounds like I'm calling out your "treat what needs to be treated, not what doesn't" sentiment. I wasn't. I was adding on to what you said and agree with you.

I'm PP and I totally got you. No apologies needed. I also think that this is not nearly as simple as I tried to explain but the question wanted a simple answer so I tried my best to answer without insult because I don't think that solves anything.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't affect me.

But when we're not waving flags and using incorrect pronouns and so on, and are attached as "intolerant" and "judgemental," you'd better believe we're going to voice a differing opinion. So suck that up and get used to it.

So you can shout SHE and CAITLYN all you want, but you'll never keep me from stating the opposing viewpoint, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like a transgender person might say "despite being born male, I'm going forward with trying to be a woman."

"Trying." is the operative word. You didn't mean to, I'm sure, but you said it right there.

Eh, you can twist it around however you want it. You still don't get to define someone's brain for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't affect me.

But when we're not waving flags and using incorrect pronouns and so on, and are attached as "intolerant" and "judgemental," you'd better believe we're going to voice a differing opinion. So suck that up and get used to it.

So you can shout SHE and CAITLYN all you want, but you'll never keep me from stating the opposing viewpoint, sorry.

I think you value your opinion or "viewpoint" too much. No one's tell you what to personally believe for yourself. You're entitled to that right. Just that you respect someone else's wishes for their own selves.

Do you wish to not be called intolerant and judgmental? Perhaps you should eat your own words, and respect how others wish to be called.