Freedom Hill Elementary in Vienna

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

I think as long as the County considers eliminating split feeders that are a huge majority one school and a very small majority to another school or even multiple feeders, people will be happy. It just became a problem in Vienna when the AAP kids switched out of Kilmer. Kilmer also has these houses where Madison bound kids are split up for both years which doesn't help the problem. There are schools in the western part of the county where only 5% of an elementary school goes onto a certain high school. There should be a better way to make split feeders work.

And yes, I will wait till the stars align before I agree to have my house shifted from Madison to Marshall, especially being that Marshall is not close to my house at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

You could also align Thoreau's boundaries with Madison's and same for Marshall with no problem. The high school is 4 years and middle school is 2 years. Theoretically, if the kids can fit in high school for four years, they can fit in middle school for 2. Don't act like one is easier than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

You could also align Thoreau's boundaries with Madison's and same for Marshall with no problem. The high school is 4 years and middle school is 2 years. Theoretically, if the kids can fit in high school for four years, they can fit in middle school for 2. Don't act like one is easier than the other.

Wrong. If we are talking about the current boundaries, it is easier to align the HS boundaries with the current MS boundaries than vice versa. As previously explained, if you just align the MS boundaries with the current HS boundaries, you end up with students living in Thoreau's immediate neighborhood (Stonewall Manor, Amanda Place, Dunn Loring Woods) being reassigned to Kilmer.

Oh, but then you say, "let those kids stay at Thoreau, but just reassign them from Marshall to Madison." In that scenario, both Thoreau and Madison pick up students, but no students move to Kilmer or Marshall. But that's a bit dicey for Thoreau, which is already going to see a big increase in students when the AAP students move back to Thoreau from Jackson and Kilmer. Adding to that, FCPS has identified the possibility of moving the part of Jackson MS that feeds into Oakton HS to Thoreau. You could create a real mess at Thoreau very quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

You could also align Thoreau's boundaries with Madison's and same for Marshall with no problem. The high school is 4 years and middle school is 2 years. Theoretically, if the kids can fit in high school for four years, they can fit in middle school for 2. Don't act like one is easier than the other.

Again, Thoreau and Kilmer are like 1/2 mile away from each other. It doesn't really matter which school these kids go to.

Wrong. If we are talking about the current boundaries, it is easier to align the HS boundaries with the current MS boundaries than vice versa. As previously explained, if you just align the MS boundaries with the current HS boundaries, you end up with students living in Thoreau's immediate neighborhood (Stonewall Manor, Amanda Place, Dunn Loring Woods) being reassigned to Kilmer.

Oh, but then you say, "let those kids stay at Thoreau, but just reassign them from Marshall to Madison." In that scenario, both Thoreau and Madison pick up students, but no students move to Kilmer or Marshall. But that's a bit dicey for Thoreau, which is already going to see a big increase in students when the AAP students move back to Thoreau from Jackson and Kilmer. Adding to that, FCPS has identified the possibility of moving the part of Jackson MS that feeds into Oakton HS to Thoreau. You could create a real mess at Thoreau very quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

You could also align Thoreau's boundaries with Madison's and same for Marshall with no problem. The high school is 4 years and middle school is 2 years. Theoretically, if the kids can fit in high school for four years, they can fit in middle school for 2. Don't act like one is easier than the other.

Wrong. If we are talking about the current boundaries, it is easier to align the HS boundaries with the current MS boundaries than vice versa. As previously explained, if you just align the MS boundaries with the current HS boundaries, you end up with students living in Thoreau's immediate neighborhood (Stonewall Manor, Amanda Place, Dunn Loring Woods) being reassigned to Kilmer.

Oh, but then you say, "let those kids stay at Thoreau, but just reassign them from Marshall to Madison." In that scenario, both Thoreau and Madison pick up students, but no students move to Kilmer or Marshall. But that's a bit dicey for Thoreau, which is already going to see a big increase in students when the AAP students move back to Thoreau from Jackson and Kilmer. Adding to that, FCPS has identified the possibility of moving the part of Jackson MS that feeds into Oakton HS to Thoreau. You could create a real mess at Thoreau very quickly.

Again, Thoreau and Kilmer are like 1/2 mile away from each other. It doesn't really matter which school these kids go to.

[Anonymous]

Like we need another AAP "center" for the 50% of the students now qualified

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like we need another AAP "center" for the 50% of the students now qualified

You mean Thoreau shouldn't get an AAP center? Kilmer already has one. Not sure what you're trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think all high schools should be aligned. There are a lot of moving parts. At some point there will be another high school built out west. There really should have been one built years ago. That will change boundaries and hopefully align pyramids better. Tysons and Springfield are areas where the county has designed higher density so boundaries will change in these areas too. I've long fought for no less than 30% of any school, elementary or middle, be a split feeder. If you are going to have a split feeder, the division needs to be as equal as possible.

You could align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's current boundaries, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's current boundaries, and eliminate the MS/HS split feeders next year, if not this fall.

The only impediment is people in the Town of Vienna who like to complain, but are apparently prepared to want to until the stars are magically aligned (shifts in the western part of the county due to a new HS that will boot county kids out of Thoreau/Madison to either Oakton or South Lakes and their feeders, combined with growth in Tysons that might lead to overcrowding at Kilmer that isn't due to AAP or at Marshall) and then lobby for changes that would send all of the Town to Thoreau and all of Thoreau to Madison. If that ever happens, it's probably at least a decade away.

You could also align Thoreau's boundaries with Madison's and same for Marshall with no problem. The high school is 4 years and middle school is 2 years. Theoretically, if the kids can fit in high school for four years, they can fit in middle school for 2. Don't act like one is easier than the other.

Wrong. If we are talking about the current boundaries, it is easier to align the HS boundaries with the current MS boundaries than vice versa. As previously explained, if you just align the MS boundaries with the current HS boundaries, you end up with students living in Thoreau's immediate neighborhood (Stonewall Manor, Amanda Place, Dunn Loring Woods) being reassigned to Kilmer.

Oh, but then you say, "let those kids stay at Thoreau, but just reassign them from Marshall to Madison." In that scenario, both Thoreau and Madison pick up students, but no students move to Kilmer or Marshall. But that's a bit dicey for Thoreau, which is already going to see a big increase in students when the AAP students move back to Thoreau from Jackson and Kilmer. Adding to that, FCPS has identified the possibility of moving the part of Jackson MS that feeds into Oakton HS to Thoreau. You could create a real mess at Thoreau very quickly.

Again, Thoreau and Kilmer are like 1/2 mile away from each other. It doesn't really matter which school these kids go to.

Well, if anything proves too much, that statement does.

[Anonymous]

It is clearly easier and better to align the current HS designation to the MS- that just makes sense. HS is 4 years- MS 2 years. HS is the reason why anyone bought into a house (which frankly is HUGE since we are all tax payers). So aligning for 2 years/MS is absurd. Tell this to all the builders and home owners that bought based on HS- just not gonna happen.

[Anonymous]

Did anyone go to the meeting this evening???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is clearly easier and better to align the current HS designation to the MS- that just makes sense. HS is 4 years- MS 2 years. HS is the reason why anyone bought into a house (which frankly is HUGE since we are all tax payers). So aligning for 2 years/MS is absurd. Tell this to all the builders and home owners that bought based on HS- just not gonna happen.

If there is a strong desire to align the MS and HS boundaries among those four schools, it is indeed easiest to align the HS boundaries to the current MS boundaries. Then the cohort of students stays together for six years or more.

The notion that you can't adjust HS boundaries because people buy into a HS district is a tired canard. Have you never heard of the "Madison Island" that was redistricted to South Lakes seven years ago? The parents put up a big fuss and threatened litigation. They got redistricted anyway. Life went on. More recently, FCPS eliminated a Woodson attendance island in the middle of the Robinson district, even though some Fairfax Station parents argued they had bought their homes specifically for Woodson. If there is truly a desire to eliminate the split feeders at Kilmer and Thoreau efficiently and expeditiously, the clear and obvious solution is to have Thoreau's current boundaries become Madison's new boundaries, and have Kilmer's current boundaries become Marshall's new boundaries. Otherwise, people can just suck it up and live with the status quo for at least another decade, while students in many other parts of the county enjoy aligned middle and high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clearly easier and better to align the current HS designation to the MS- that just makes sense. HS is 4 years- MS 2 years. HS is the reason why anyone bought into a house (which frankly is HUGE since we are all tax payers). So aligning for 2 years/MS is absurd. Tell this to all the builders and home owners that bought based on HS- just not gonna happen.

If there is a strong desire to align the MS and HS boundaries among those four schools, it is indeed easiest to align the HS boundaries to the current MS boundaries. Then the cohort of students stays together for six years or more.

The notion that you can't adjust HS boundaries because people buy into a HS district is a tired canard. Have you never heard of the "Madison Island" that was redistricted to South Lakes seven years ago? The parents put up a big fuss and threatened litigation. They got redistricted anyway. Life went on. More recently, FCPS eliminated a Woodson attendance island in the middle of the Robinson district, even though some Fairfax Station parents argued they had bought their homes specifically for Woodson. If there is truly a desire to eliminate the split feeders at Kilmer and Thoreau efficiently and expeditiously, the clear and obvious solution is to have Thoreau's current boundaries become Madison's new boundaries, and have Kilmer's current boundaries become Marshall's new boundaries. Otherwise, people can just suck it up and live with the status quo for at least another decade, while students in many other parts of the county enjoy aligned middle and high schools.

What they can do now is redistribute the middle school students for Marshall and Madison among Kilmer and Thoreau so that there is not such a great majority at one school verses another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clearly easier and better to align the current HS designation to the MS- that just makes sense. HS is 4 years- MS 2 years. HS is the reason why anyone bought into a house (which frankly is HUGE since we are all tax payers). So aligning for 2 years/MS is absurd. Tell this to all the builders and home owners that bought based on HS- just not gonna happen.

If there is a strong desire to align the MS and HS boundaries among those four schools, it is indeed easiest to align the HS boundaries to the current MS boundaries. Then the cohort of students stays together for six years or more.

The notion that you can't adjust HS boundaries because people buy into a HS district is a tired canard. Have you never heard of the "Madison Island" that was redistricted to South Lakes seven years ago? The parents put up a big fuss and threatened litigation. They got redistricted anyway. Life went on. More recently, FCPS eliminated a Woodson attendance island in the middle of the Robinson district, even though some Fairfax Station parents argued they had bought their homes specifically for Woodson. If there is truly a desire to eliminate the split feeders at Kilmer and Thoreau efficiently and expeditiously, the clear and obvious solution is to have Thoreau's current boundaries become Madison's new boundaries, and have Kilmer's current boundaries become Marshall's new boundaries. Otherwise, people can just suck it up and live with the status quo for at least another decade, while students in many other parts of the county enjoy aligned middle and high schools.

What they can do now is redistribute the middle school students for Marshall and Madison among Kilmer and Thoreau so that there is not such a great majority at one school verses another.

I hadn't heard anyone really advocating for that approach. It seems more complicated and less satisfactory than the alternative of using the current Thoreau boundaries for Madison and the current Kilmer boundaries for Marshall.

If you look at the boundaries and location of the middle schools, what you're describing would most likely involve assigning Kilmer/Marshall neighborhoods south of Idylwood Road (largely if not entirely at Shrevewood and Stenwood ES) to Thoreau and assigning Thoreau/Madison north of Lawyers or east of Lawyers and north of Maple (largely if not entirely from Oakton and Flint Hill ES) to Kilmer.

You would end up with both Thoreau and Kilmer closer to even split feeders (maybe more like 35-65 vs. 15-85). More of the Town might be assigned to Kilmer, and the FARMS rate at Thoreau would end up higher than at Kilmer. Many of the kids being reassigned to Thoreau would have a shorter commute or a commute that was no worse, and most of the kids being reassigned to Kilmer would have a longer commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone go to the meeting this evening???

bump