S/o next great white hope: Breakthrough Montessori

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder if all the lovers of Montessori know it's original roots and purpose? Also, I have heard some lovers of Montessori (leaders of some of the Montessori schools that are so highly sought after in this city) state that Montessori works for ALL children - that is just not true. While I have nothing against Montessori in particular although it was not a program we sought out because we did not think it appropriate for our child, I was pretty horrified when the parent of one Montessori school bragged to me about how the children are learning how to carry a stack of teacups properly. What??!! That really is not what I want a school teaching my AA child who will already be pigeonholed in so many ways.

With respect, it sounds very much like YOU do not understand even the basics of the Montessori method, so ragging on "lovers of Montessori" for not knowing it's "original roots and purpose" is a bit rich. It's "original roots and purpose" was to help poor kids in Italy and it's been proven over more than a century to be effective.

Effective in doing what? Pretty much all of the models are "effective," it's just a matter of how a parent wants their child to get there.

And no, it's not for everybody. My son has Asperger's and ADHD, and his therapists unanimously said Montessori was a bad fit. I know plenty of people who aren't sold on the method, and we all totally fit the "profile" of those who should love it.

The pp was trying to say it isn't just for middle-class and upper middle class kids. I actually am annoyed by the whole turn kids into good little bourgeois workers who can arrange flowers, keep their home clean, and move/speak quietly, but that's because I feel comfortable enough in the middle class to despise its materialistic, repressive values.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

But I agree it can be a challenge for boys, like mine, who while not officially aspergers or ADHD, certainly trends in that direction. But the curriculum is still working on him - albeit a bit more slowly and less evenly. He LOVES school and would struggle in different ways in a more traditional school. The big pay off is the intrinsic motivation for learning that comes in elementary school.

I went to regular public school all my life and those are pretty much the same values that you get in traditional school, too... clean up, be quiet, etc. etc. I think that's just school.

You got lessons in flower arranging? Table washing (not wiping - a specific series of steps and prescribed motions) Ironing? Sewing? Did you practice your quiet, careful walking in class every morning? Did your teacher speak to you always in whispers. There is a calculated inculcation of these values in Montessori that is different than traditional schools that are often based on the assumption that students come to them from middle class homes and thus simply reinforce expectations of clean up and be quiet. I do think that Montessori can be very good for kids from chaotic homes, but unfortunately, we don't yet have the numbers to test this since there aren't many lower ses kids in Montessori schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder if all the lovers of Montessori know it's original roots and purpose? Also, I have heard some lovers of Montessori (leaders of some of the Montessori schools that are so highly sought after in this city) state that Montessori works for ALL children - that is just not true. While I have nothing against Montessori in particular although it was not a program we sought out because we did not think it appropriate for our child, I was pretty horrified when the parent of one Montessori school bragged to me about how the children are learning how to carry a stack of teacups properly. What??!! That really is not what I want a school teaching my AA child who will already be pigeonholed in so many ways.

With respect, it sounds very much like YOU do not understand even the basics of the Montessori method, so ragging on "lovers of Montessori" for not knowing it's "original roots and purpose" is a bit rich. It's "original roots and purpose" was to help poor kids in Italy and it's been proven over more than a century to be effective.

Effective in doing what? Pretty much all of the models are "effective," it's just a matter of how a parent wants their child to get there.

And no, it's not for everybody. My son has Asperger's and ADHD, and his therapists unanimously said Montessori was a bad fit. I know plenty of people who aren't sold on the method, and we all totally fit the "profile" of those who should love it.

The pp was trying to say it isn't just for middle-class and upper middle class kids. I actually am annoyed by the whole turn kids into good little bourgeois workers who can arrange flowers, keep their home clean, and move/speak quietly, but that's because I feel comfortable enough in the middle class to despise its materialistic, repressive values.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

But I agree it can be a challenge for boys, like mine, who while not officially aspergers or ADHD, certainly trends in that direction. But the curriculum is still working on him - albeit a bit more slowly and less evenly. He LOVES school and would struggle in different ways in a more traditional school. The big pay off is the intrinsic motivation for learning that comes in elementary school.

I went to regular public school all my life and those are pretty much the same values that you get in traditional school, too... clean up, be quiet, etc. etc. I think that's just school.

You got lessons in flower arranging? Table washing (not wiping - a specific series of steps and prescribed motions) Ironing? Sewing? Did you practice your quiet, careful walking in class every morning? Did your teacher speak to you always in whispers. There is a calculated inculcation of these values in Montessori that is different than traditional schools that are often based on the assumption that students come to them from middle class homes and thus simply reinforce expectations of clean up and be quiet. I do think that Montessori can be very good for kids from chaotic homes, but unfortunately, we don't yet have the numbers to test this since there aren't many lower ses kids in Montessori schools.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder if all the lovers of Montessori know it's original roots and purpose? Also, I have heard some lovers of Montessori (leaders of some of the Montessori schools that are so highly sought after in this city) state that Montessori works for ALL children - that is just not true. While I have nothing against Montessori in particular although it was not a program we sought out because we did not think it appropriate for our child, I was pretty horrified when the parent of one Montessori school bragged to me about how the children are learning how to carry a stack of teacups properly. What??!! That really is not what I want a school teaching my AA child who will already be pigeonholed in so many ways.

With respect, it sounds very much like YOU do not understand even the basics of the Montessori method, so ragging on "lovers of Montessori" for not knowing it's "original roots and purpose" is a bit rich. It's "original roots and purpose" was to help poor kids in Italy and it's been proven over more than a century to be effective.

Effective in doing what? Pretty much all of the models are "effective," it's just a matter of how a parent wants their child to get there.

And no, it's not for everybody. My son has Asperger's and ADHD, and his therapists unanimously said Montessori was a bad fit. I know plenty of people who aren't sold on the method, and we all totally fit the "profile" of those who should love it.

The pp was trying to say it isn't just for middle-class and upper middle class kids. I actually am annoyed by the whole turn kids into good little bourgeois workers who can arrange flowers, keep their home clean, and move/speak quietly, but that's because I feel comfortable enough in the middle class to despise its materialistic, repressive values.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

But I agree it can be a challenge for boys, like mine, who while not officially aspergers or ADHD, certainly trends in that direction. But the curriculum is still working on him - albeit a bit more slowly and less evenly. He LOVES school and would struggle in different ways in a more traditional school. The big pay off is the intrinsic motivation for learning that comes in elementary school.

I went to regular public school all my life and those are pretty much the same values that you get in traditional school, too... clean up, be quiet, etc. etc. I think that's just school.

You got lessons in flower arranging? Table washing (not wiping - a specific series of steps and prescribed motions) Ironing? Sewing? Did you practice your quiet, careful walking in class every morning? Did your teacher speak to you always in whispers. There is a calculated inculcation of these values in Montessori that is different than traditional schools that are often based on the assumption that students come to them from middle class homes and thus simply reinforce expectations of clean up and be quiet. I do think that Montessori can be very good for kids from chaotic homes, but unfortunately, we don't yet have the numbers to test this since there aren't many lower ses kids in Montessori schools.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

Quite frankly if more kids with ADD or sensory processing issues were in montessori classroom I think you would see those issues and diagnoses drop in half. The classes are calm, the kids work on things that actually engage them, no one is forced to sit at a desk, take tests or labor through homework at a young age. Most kids cannot do that and yet we medicate them because they can't focus. Give montessori a try.

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons that I would think that Montessori would be great for a child with ADD or ADHD is the lack of distractions in the classroom. It's a calm, focused place. There aren't bright colors everywhere. The furniture and walls are plain and not adorned with multiple posters and pictures and educational materials that distract children as they are trying to listen to a teacher who is squeezing every single child into a one size fits all approach.

The more I learn about Montessori, the more I am convinced that this is an approach that can work for all children. It doesn't meant that other approaches can't work too, but I've seen it work very effectively for sociable kids and shy ones, for kids with ADHD and those who do not, for kids who are advanced and those who are behind grade level, for those with other special needs and those without.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder if all the lovers of Montessori know it's original roots and purpose? Also, I have heard some lovers of Montessori (leaders of some of the Montessori schools that are so highly sought after in this city) state that Montessori works for ALL children - that is just not true. While I have nothing against Montessori in particular although it was not a program we sought out because we did not think it appropriate for our child, I was pretty horrified when the parent of one Montessori school bragged to me about how the children are learning how to carry a stack of teacups properly. What??!! That really is not what I want a school teaching my AA child who will already be pigeonholed in so many ways.

With respect, it sounds very much like YOU do not understand even the basics of the Montessori method, so ragging on "lovers of Montessori" for not knowing it's "original roots and purpose" is a bit rich. It's "original roots and purpose" was to help poor kids in Italy and it's been proven over more than a century to be effective.

Effective in doing what? Pretty much all of the models are "effective," it's just a matter of how a parent wants their child to get there.

And no, it's not for everybody. My son has Asperger's and ADHD, and his therapists unanimously said Montessori was a bad fit. I know plenty of people who aren't sold on the method, and we all totally fit the "profile" of those who should love it.

The pp was trying to say it isn't just for middle-class and upper middle class kids. I actually am annoyed by the whole turn kids into good little bourgeois workers who can arrange flowers, keep their home clean, and move/speak quietly, but that's because I feel comfortable enough in the middle class to despise its materialistic, repressive values.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

But I agree it can be a challenge for boys, like mine, who while not officially aspergers or ADHD, certainly trends in that direction. But the curriculum is still working on him - albeit a bit more slowly and less evenly. He LOVES school and would struggle in different ways in a more traditional school. The big pay off is the intrinsic motivation for learning that comes in elementary school.

I went to regular public school all my life and those are pretty much the same values that you get in traditional school, too... clean up, be quiet, etc. etc. I think that's just school.

You got lessons in flower arranging? Table washing (not wiping - a specific series of steps and prescribed motions) Ironing? Sewing? Did you practice your quiet, careful walking in class every morning? Did your teacher speak to you always in whispers. There is a calculated inculcation of these values in Montessori that is different than traditional schools that are often based on the assumption that students come to them from middle class homes and thus simply reinforce expectations of clean up and be quiet. I do think that Montessori can be very good for kids from chaotic homes, but unfortunately, we don't yet have the numbers to test this since there aren't many lower ses kids in Montessori schools.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

My kid is told repeatedly to be quiet and sometimes asked to leave the classroom when he is too loud. Some days my somewhat adhd kid is focused/engaged/quiet and sometimes nothing in the classroom engages him and he becomes quite disruptive and, again, is asked to leave. I think Montessori is still working for him, but it's a struggle for kids who . . . struggle. It is no magic panacea. And this isn't a kid who would qualify for a adhd diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the reasons that I would think that Montessori would be great for a child with ADD or ADHD is the lack of distractions in the classroom. It's a calm, focused place. There aren't bright colors everywhere. The furniture and walls are plain and not adorned with multiple posters and pictures and educational materials that distract children as they are trying to listen to a teacher who is squeezing every single child into a one size fits all approach.

The more I learn about Montessori, the more I am convinced that this is an approach that can work for all children. It doesn't meant that other approaches can't work too, but I've seen it work very effectively for sociable kids and shy ones, for kids with ADHD and those who do not, for kids who are advanced and those who are behind grade level, for those with other special needs and those without.

My sensory seeking kid can be a mess in such an atmosphere - they need more input (or "information" as my son's OT says). And I wouldn't say it is calm - there are 30 kids in a room with you doing various things. Like I said, somedays my kid is able to focus and somedays he is way way too distracted by all that is going on around him. In the long run, he will benefit by learning to focus and self-regulate, but in the short term, it is very hard for him.

[Anonymous]

He has been at the school for two years, btw. So it's a long struggle for kids who aren't a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Thank god for charter schools in the mess of DCPS. If anyone ever has an issue with the school as I did, you quickly find there is no accountability, no transparency and admin and parents of "beloved" neighborhood DCPS go on attack mode. School Board has no authority, Supers are for "instructional purposes" not admin and trying to figure out the hierarchy or resources available that our taxes pay for...well, good luck. I would even bet 85%+ do not even know some legal aspects of what the school/police are allowed to do with your child w/o your permission - even when your child was a victim at the school. I really wanted to support DCPS - I would be strictly private or move w/o charters...and I am shocked more people are not. I think people would be surprised how many DCPS staff send their kids to charter...good luck with anyone in public, I wish your kids the best, and thanks for not taking up the charter spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I know is that I didn't move to DC so that I could be sitting in a car driving halfway across town to drop my kid off at school everyday. I might as well live in the suburbs for that.

You'd probably send your kids on a school bus in the suburbs.

I'd be fine with this. Unfortunately DC doesn't have school buses and I can't put my 3 year old on a regular bus and expect him to get off at the correct stop by himself.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]All I know is that I didn't move to DC so that I could be sitting in a car driving halfway across town to drop my kid off at school everyday. I might as well live in the suburbs for that. [/quote]

You'd probably send your kids on a school bus in the suburbs. [/quote]

I'd be fine with this. Unfortunately DC doesn't have school buses and I can't put my 3 year old on a regular bus and expect him to get off at the correct stop by himself. [/quote]

And in the suburbs you wouldn't send a 3 yo to public school but rather a private preschool or daycare you'd have to drive to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank god for charter schools in the mess of DCPS. If anyone ever has an issue with the school as I did, you quickly find there is no accountability, no transparency and admin and parents of "beloved" neighborhood DCPS go on attack mode. School Board has no authority, Supers are for "instructional purposes" not admin and trying to figure out the hierarchy or resources available that our taxes pay for...well, good luck. I would even bet 85%+ do not even know some legal aspects of what the school/police are allowed to do with your child w/o your permission - even when your child was a victim at the school. I really wanted to support DCPS - I would be strictly private or move w/o charters...and I am shocked more people are not. I think people would be surprised how many DCPS staff send their kids to charter...good luck with anyone in public, I wish your kids the best, and thanks for not taking up the charter spots.

+1. I could have written this.

[Anonymous]

Me too. I was completely against charters, had wonderful experiences with public schools in another city, moved to dc, sent the kid to a well-regarded dcps--and had a disastrous experience.

Now, DC is thriving at a charter. I really never thought we'd be here... But here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank god for charter schools in the mess of DCPS. If anyone ever has an issue with the school as I did, you quickly find there is no accountability, no transparency and admin and parents of "beloved" neighborhood DCPS go on attack mode. School Board has no authority, Supers are for "instructional purposes" not admin and trying to figure out the hierarchy or resources available that our taxes pay for...well, good luck. I would even bet 85%+ do not even know some legal aspects of what the school/police are allowed to do with your child w/o your permission - even when your child was a victim at the school. I really wanted to support DCPS - I would be strictly private or move w/o charters...and I am shocked more people are not. I think people would be surprised how many DCPS staff send their kids to charter...good luck with anyone in public, I wish your kids the best, and thanks for not taking up the charter spots.

OMG are you me? I have PTSD from my dealings with our DCPS. I have many problems with the charter movement (especially as relates to union busting) but it could not possibly be any worse than our "beloved" neighborhood DCPS experience. At least with a charter I can be fairly certain that most of the dynamics involved exist within the school itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder if all the lovers of Montessori know it's original roots and purpose? Also, I have heard some lovers of Montessori (leaders of some of the Montessori schools that are so highly sought after in this city) state that Montessori works for ALL children - that is just not true. While I have nothing against Montessori in particular although it was not a program we sought out because we did not think it appropriate for our child, I was pretty horrified when the parent of one Montessori school bragged to me about how the children are learning how to carry a stack of teacups properly. What??!! That really is not what I want a school teaching my AA child who will already be pigeonholed in so many ways.

With respect, it sounds very much like YOU do not understand even the basics of the Montessori method, so ragging on "lovers of Montessori" for not knowing it's "original roots and purpose" is a bit rich. It's "original roots and purpose" was to help poor kids in Italy and it's been proven over more than a century to be effective.

Effective in doing what? Pretty much all of the models are "effective," it's just a matter of how a parent wants their child to get there.

And no, it's not for everybody. My son has Asperger's and ADHD, and his therapists unanimously said Montessori was a bad fit. I know plenty of people who aren't sold on the method, and we all totally fit the "profile" of those who should love it.

The pp was trying to say it isn't just for middle-class and upper middle class kids. I actually am annoyed by the whole turn kids into good little bourgeois workers who can arrange flowers, keep their home clean, and move/speak quietly, but that's because I feel comfortable enough in the middle class to despise its materialistic, repressive values.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

But I agree it can be a challenge for boys, like mine, who while not officially aspergers or ADHD, certainly trends in that direction. But the curriculum is still working on him - albeit a bit more slowly and less evenly. He LOVES school and would struggle in different ways in a more traditional school. The big pay off is the intrinsic motivation for learning that comes in elementary school.

I went to regular public school all my life and those are pretty much the same values that you get in traditional school, too... clean up, be quiet, etc. etc. I think that's just school.

You got lessons in flower arranging? Table washing (not wiping - a specific series of steps and prescribed motions) Ironing? Sewing? Did you practice your quiet, careful walking in class every morning? Did your teacher speak to you always in whispers. There is a calculated inculcation of these values in Montessori that is different than traditional schools that are often based on the assumption that students come to them from middle class homes and thus simply reinforce expectations of clean up and be quiet. I do think that Montessori can be very good for kids from chaotic homes, but unfortunately, we don't yet have the numbers to test this since there aren't many lower ses kids in Montessori schools.

My DD is in a montessori preschool and at no time are the kids told to be quiet. They develop really amazing concentration skills and they select their own things to work on that interest them and lo and behold, when little kids are actually engaged with learning they focus and are quiet on their own. The teachers don't whisper, they are always calm and the kids pick up on that. The kids learn a signficant amount of independence and self regulation, two things sadly missing from so many spoilled and entitled kids these days.

Quite frankly if more kids with ADD or sensory processing issues were in montessori classroom I think you would see those issues and diagnoses drop in half. The classes are calm, the kids work on things that actually engage them, no one is forced to sit at a desk, take tests or labor through homework at a young age. Most kids cannot do that and yet we medicate them because they can't focus. Give montessori a try.

I don't think you really understand what it means to have a 3-4 year old who is in any way different from the curve. In fact I think it's likely that you would see more ADD diagnoses because teachers would label kids who were not as able to do the "work" as other kids, or didn't thrive in an atmosphere with very little adult-directed activity. (There's a difference between positive adult attention and guidance, and adults forcing 3 year olds to do worksheets.)

I do like a lot of what I hear about montessori, but the fact is, any approach with a rigid ideology and expectation about what kids should do is going to be a poor fit for some kids. If the teacher is driven by a need to meet certain standards as opposed to meeting the needs of the kid in front of her, then there are going to be problems for certain kids.

What I would love to see is a modified Montessori preschool with a higher teacher-student ratio and a philosophy for how to introduce the kids with sensory/attention/whatever needs to the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the reasons that I would think that Montessori would be great for a child with ADD or ADHD is the lack of distractions in the classroom. It's a calm, focused place. There aren't bright colors everywhere. The furniture and walls are plain and not adorned with multiple posters and pictures and educational materials that distract children as they are trying to listen to a teacher who is squeezing every single child into a one size fits all approach.

The more I learn about Montessori, the more I am convinced that this is an approach that can work for all children. It doesn't meant that other approaches can't work too, but I've seen it work very effectively for sociable kids and shy ones, for kids with ADHD and those who do not, for kids who are advanced and those who are behind grade level, for those with other special needs and those without.

My sensory seeking kid can be a mess in such an atmosphere - they need more input (or "information" as my son's OT says). And I wouldn't say it is calm - there are 30 kids in a room with you doing various things. Like I said, somedays my kid is able to focus and somedays he is way way too distracted by all that is going on around him. In the long run, he will benefit by learning to focus and self-regulate, but in the short term, it is very hard for him.

Respectfully - why do you keep him there?