S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?

[Anonymous]

because it's an option now while back in our days it wasn't really available so why not let my kids try it? it's not too different from why lax/ice hockey has become the new sport of choice in this area?

in the end, it's a language which does no harm for a child to learn. just like lax is a sport and doing some exercise is always better than not to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So basically what some of you are saying is that unless a skill or study registers with and relates to you personally then you perceive it as a pointless pursuit.
Hmmmm - I see why you have such difficulty understanding. Enjoy your small closed-minded corner.

No, you are missing my point. I'm NOT saying Mandarin or any other language is pointless, NOR am I saying it is pointless to study something that doesn't relate to me. What I AM saying is that students have a limited amount of time for learning, and perhaps for most students, that limited items is better spent learning things more useful than Mandarin. For those who really want to study Mandarin, or any other language, they should be able to study it. But for the many other students who won't get a lot from Mandarin, maybe their time is better spent pursuing something more useful.

When a school requires all students to start learning a language in 4th grade (or whatever age), it is essentially making a value judgment that learning another language is more valuable than whatever might otherwise fit in that spot - perhaps a daily science class, or maybe a world history class. That's the value judgment that annoys me, because I think more kids will get value out off the science class than the Mandarin class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically what some of you are saying is that unless a skill or study registers with and relates to you personally then you perceive it as a pointless pursuit.
Hmmmm - I see why you have such difficulty understanding. Enjoy your small closed-minded corner.

No, you are missing my point. I'm NOT saying Mandarin or any other language is pointless, NOR am I saying it is pointless to study something that doesn't relate to me. What I AM saying is that students have a limited amount of time for learning, and perhaps for most students, that limited items is better spent learning things more useful than Mandarin. For those who really want to study Mandarin, or any other language, they should be able to study it. But for the many other students who won't get a lot from Mandarin, maybe their time is better spent pursuing something more useful.

When a school requires all students to start learning a language in 4th grade (or whatever age), it is essentially making a value judgment that learning another language is more valuable than whatever might otherwise fit in that spot - perhaps a daily science class, or maybe a world history class. That's the value judgment that annoys me, because I think more kids will get value out off the science class than the Mandarin class.

does it annoy you when schools teache instrument/choir instead of science?

[Anonymous]

I agree that it's a fad. The language of the world and business is English. That's clear everywhere I travel.

I've taken German, my husband took Russian, and my son Mandarin -- but we never use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I agree that it's a fad. The language of the world and business is English. That's clear everywhere I travel.

I've taken German, my husband took Russian, and my son Mandarin -- but we never use it.

I've taken Calculus and never use that either.

[Anonymous]

I just asked my brother who is a VP at Wall Street firm re: Chinese. He said while everyone does speak English, he has taken business Chinese to assist him in his work.

He also said whoever said you don't need Chinese in business is a "fucktard" <---- his words.

[Anonymous]

NP here. I teach high school biology (something else of limited use unless you're going to be a biologist!). FWIW our school recently had an assembly where an expert spoke about foreign language instruction, and I was surprised that French was the language that she sees on a daily basis as being in the greatest demand and being the most useful out in the world, and that there's actually a shortage of French teachers nationwide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Seems like there have been several threads recently about elementary school kids taking Mandarin or other Chinese dialects.

I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would want to do that unless they have some family or cultural connection to China. It just doesn't seem like a particularly useful language to know unless you plan to live there some day. It'll never be the language of business, for instance. So, what's the appeal, exactly?

Why study French, German, or Spanish for that matter? Doesn't seem particularly useful to know.

Well, French is a language of diplomacy.

Mandarin will only ever be used in China. Yes, it's a huge market -- but like I said, is usefulness is limited, unless you're going to go live and work there.

I agree, far more useful to learn french or spanish. English is the language of business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just asked my brother who is a VP at Wall Street firm re: Chinese. He said while everyone does speak English, he has taken business Chinese to assist him in his work.

He also said whoever said you don't need Chinese in business is a "fucktard" <---- his words.

Most of us feel the same way about anyone who works on Wall Street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The PP nailed it but for what it's worth:

OP makes valid points as do many of the respondents who pointed out that the utility of Mandarin outside of China, Taiwan, HK and Singapore is fairly limited. This could also be said of most other foreign languages we study in US schools. German, French and Russian are certainly of limited use when you are in the US. China is indeed an important economic power and a major trade partner of the US and this is unlikely to change however the number of business meetings or trade negotiations conducted in Mandarin between Chinese and Americans is tiny. English is and will remain the leading business and diplomatic language (not French which hasn't had this status in decades except maybe in West Africa).

I studied Chinese in college, lived in China for two years after college during which time I was conversational in the language and worked as a translator. Since returning over a decade ago I have since worked in the intelligence community, trade-focused parts of the government and a think tank. Every one of these positions focused on Asia - most on China. I have found that Asian language skills are valued more as a screening tool when reviewing resumes than actually of any use in the respective positions. State dept types also like to use their (generally mediocre) language skills as a sort of corny ice breaker with foreign delegations before conducting a meeting in English. In my current position I travel perhaps 4-6 times per year to Asia. I cover a region from Korea down to Indonesia. I have neither the time nor the brain power to develop any real facility in the 10+ languages I encounter in those travels. In Hong Kong I find my Chinese is useful (and fun) for speaking with cab drivers and waitstaff. All business negotiations are conducted in English. In Taiwan and China this largely applies as well though I do speak exclusively in Chinese with a few old friends who speak no English. Chit chatting with people and catching up with a few friends doesn't really justify a serious engagement of time and money in learning a language.

As someone who has valued foreign language acquisition and invested a lot of time and money in it I have come to the sad realization that if you have fluent English and no particularly strong tie or interest in any single country or language area then foreign language skills are not of much use. This isn't just for Americans - Germans doing business internationally use English, Swedes vacationing in Thailand use English, Japanese discussing a sourcing contract in Vietnam use English.

Sure, if you are committed to living in country X for some extended period of time or you travel there frequently, have relatives you wish to communicate with, are really really interested in the literature or history then learn the language but for most Americans - even those like myself who travel to Asia on business 4-6 times per year it is of questionable value.

As for learning Mandarin to speak to Mandarin speakers in this area I find that hard to justify. Most of them may speak some English and as a PP pointed out, this is a statistically insignificant percentage of the population. Unless you have a specific need to engage with that population (social work, police, sales and marketing) I really can't see the wisdom of investing in learning the language. You can find lots of opportunities to use Portuguese in Providence RI but that doesn't mean it makes sense for most people up there to learn it.

Does it make sense to learn Chinese if you will be living in China? Sure; Travelling there a lot? Maybe.
Will learning Chinese bring tremendous job opportunities here in the US? I haven't seen it.

This is not to say "Don't learn Chinese" but it is to suggest that combining a skill of questionable utility like Chinese with something more useful like economics, science or engineering makes more sense.

Yes, exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
does it annoy you when schools teache instrument/choir instead of science?

Nope, because at least at my kids' schools, those are treated as extras meeting once a week, maybe twice. Language is a more intensive exercise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I agree that it's a fad. The language of the world and business is English. That's clear everywhere I travel.

I've taken German, my husband took Russian, and my son Mandarin -- but we never use it.

But I already speak English. Many schools and colleges require a foreign language - so Chinese seems like a good one. And I’ve met many Mandarin or Cantonese speaking people right here in N. Virginia who are delighted when you try to speak their language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I teach high school biology (something else of limited use unless you're going to be a biologist!). FWIW our school recently had an assembly where an expert spoke about foreign language instruction, and I was surprised that French was the language that she sees on a daily basis as being in the greatest demand and being the most useful out in the world, and that there's actually a shortage of French teachers nationwide.

That would surprise me too. The frogs get all pissy if you don’t speak their language perfectly - and none of us are going to be able to do that. A few well chosen phrases can do wonders with the ladies, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just asked my brother who is a VP at Wall Street firm re: Chinese. He said while everyone does speak English, he has taken business Chinese to assist him in his work.

He also said whoever said you don't need Chinese in business is a "fucktard" <---- his words.

Your brother uses the word "fucktard" and somehow holds down a VP position at a Wall Street firm? Where does he work, a boiler room?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I agree that it's a fad. The language of the world and business is English. That's clear everywhere I travel.

I've taken German, my husband took Russian, and my son Mandarin -- but we never use it.

I've taken Calculus and never use that either.

I'm the PP. I never took Calculus. Good move on my part since I've never needed it.