S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, I think gearing your kid's entire education around being able to have conversations in the US with Mandarin speakers would be really strange if you have no family connections.

Duly noted.

Hey, people without family connections to China who send their children to Yu Ying or Chinese partial immersion in MCPS -- somebody on DCUM thinks you're weird! Please adjust your behavior accordingly.

A boy in my high school went to a french immersion school k-8. He now works in a staples.

[Anonymous]

Always good to know another language in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Encourage your kids to be strong in English and to cultivate good communication platform skills. This coupled with logos people skills is all you need.

This. Want to do business in India, Hong Kong, Southeast Asia, mainland China? A strong and confident command of English will serve you better than solid Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Always good to know another language in general.

Yes it is BUT this thread is about studying Mandarin so the question is not whether or not it is generally good to know another language but whether or not the time, money, energy and opportunity cost invested in learning Mandarin are warranted. I would argue that they are not for the vast majority of US students. For those who decide at some point that they wish to live or work in China or specialize in Chinese studies then certainly learn the language. For 99% of American students, the investment is too great given the limited utility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in career services at a large university and am not currently seeing a demand for US born Mandarin speakers in the job market.

The kids most in demand are the ones with true global fluency, like the diplomat's kids who grew up speaking a native language but attended English speaking international schools in multiple countries. The Chinese students are marketable back home for their English skills. There is very little demand for mandarin speakers here in the US and it is not easy for an American to get hired in China due to visa and work permit regulations etc.

I support the study of foreign languages for the pure sake of it but at least as of right now the market is speaking and Mandarin isn't much in demand. Whether it will be in 20 years or not is another question.
Right now I'm not seeing it.

Do you see demand for other languages? (You mentioned mainly English.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chinese language programs around the country are seeing significant declines in interest and enrollment. Now that we are about 15 years into the "China will rule the world" fad it looks like people are finally realizing Mandarin is not so essential to their (or their kids') success in life. I don't consider Stanford students to be isolationist or disinterested in the world so I think it telling that enrollments are so low.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2017/01/18/beijing-study-abroad-program-suspended-indefinitely/

"Stanford has announced that due to low enrollment, it will be indefinitely suspending its undergraduate overseas studies program in Beijing at the end of the 2016-2017 academic year.

This decision comes just months after the University’s consolidation of both the Chinese and Japanese majors and minors into one East Asian Studies program; both changes were made due to low interest and enrollment.

The Beijing program, which allows undergraduate students to study at Peking University, one of China’s leading research institutes, was established in 2004. Enrollment, which was high at first and able to fill the 20 to 30 slots each year, steadily declined over time. Last spring, only eight students participated in the program....."

So, you revived a 2 year old thread, just to add this?

Well, for those who don't think that Mandarin is a significant language, here's just a few thoughts.

If you search on a job search engine, I picked indeed.com for a sample, and you put "Mandarin required" you get 5366 hits, 258 if you restrict it to Washington DC.
Now, put in French required and you get 3803 hits, 304 in Washington DC.
Now, put in German required and you get 1400 hits, 85 in Washington DC.
Japanese required 1735 hits, 26 in Washington DC.
Not surprisingly, Spanish is the big one with 44,443 hits and 1109 in Washington DC.

So, Mandarin is the second most common foreign language required for jobs, second to Spanish. French and German aren't as useful languages as Mandarin in general. However, business is increasing in Mandarin speaking companies and companies that are trying to expand and do business in China. This is world-wide, the largest underdeveloped market and has the most opportunities for expansion anywhere. As time passes, the usefulness of French and German in employment will continue to decrease while the usefulness of Mandarin will increase. It may never become as dominant as English, but Mandarin and Spanish are likely to be the most sought-after secondary languages over the next century.

[Anonymous]

Every yuppy thinks their kid is a future international businessman-barrister-leader at the world bank. Mandarin is nothing more than college app and resume fluff. 99.9% chance your Beltway-raised kid works some boring job in NYC, Philly or DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chinese language programs around the country are seeing significant declines in interest and enrollment. Now that we are about 15 years into the "China will rule the world" fad it looks like people are finally realizing Mandarin is not so essential to their (or their kids') success in life. I don't consider Stanford students to be isolationist or disinterested in the world so I think it telling that enrollments are so low.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2017/01/18/beijing-study-abroad-program-suspended-indefinitely/

"Stanford has announced that due to low enrollment, it will be indefinitely suspending its undergraduate overseas studies program in Beijing at the end of the 2016-2017 academic year.

This decision comes just months after the University’s consolidation of both the Chinese and Japanese majors and minors into one East Asian Studies program; both changes were made due to low interest and enrollment.

The Beijing program, which allows undergraduate students to study at Peking University, one of China’s leading research institutes, was established in 2004. Enrollment, which was high at first and able to fill the 20 to 30 slots each year, steadily declined over time. Last spring, only eight students participated in the program....."

So, you revived a 2 year old thread, just to add this?

Well, for those who don't think that Mandarin is a significant language, here's just a few thoughts.

If you search on a job search engine, I picked indeed.com for a sample, and you put "Mandarin required" you get 5366 hits, 258 if you restrict it to Washington DC.
Now, put in French required and you get 3803 hits, 304 in Washington DC.
Now, put in German required and you get 1400 hits, 85 in Washington DC.
Japanese required 1735 hits, 26 in Washington DC.
Not surprisingly, Spanish is the big one with 44,443 hits and 1109 in Washington DC.

So, Mandarin is the second most common foreign language required for jobs, second to Spanish. French and German aren't as useful languages as Mandarin in general. However, business is increasing in Mandarin speaking companies and companies that are trying to expand and do business in China. This is world-wide, the largest underdeveloped market and has the most opportunities for expansion anywhere. As time passes, the usefulness of French and German in employment will continue to decrease while the usefulness of Mandarin will increase. It may never become as dominant as English, but Mandarin and Spanish are likely to be the most sought-after secondary languages over the next century.

IMO Chinese will never become dominant at all, because the tones are so difficult to learn after childhood.

English is simply much easier to learn as a second language. There is a practically endless supply of native Mandarin speakers who have some basic proficiency in English. Contrast that with the infinitesimal number of native English speakers who have some basic proficiency in Mandarin (a number that gets even smaller if you exclude foreign-born ethnic Chinese). Also consider that there is a steep learning curve for Westerners regarding Chinese culture and customs. If you're a business looking to expand in China, why would you hire from Pool B instead of Pool A? And if you do want to hire from Pool B why would you go for a white person who learned it in school vs an ethnic Chinese person who has a cultural and familial connection and may have an easier time working with Chinese clients?

And regarding the job postings, the relevant ranking IMO is "spanish" vs "all other languages" as there is a full order of magnitude difference. Note that Spanish is also extremely easy to learn as a second language and the culture/customs differences are not as stark. Learning Spanish seems like a no-brainer whereas the upsides to learning Mandarin are less clear.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We said all the same things about Japanese in the 80 s

Also Russian in the '60-'80s. And Arabic in the past decade. Mandarin and Hindi are probably good bets today in terms of future business use, if that's what interests you.

But you might be surprised by what is actually useful, and it will depend on your field and where you focus. I'm in an international relations field, and I've studied Spanish, French, German, Russian, and Japanese. The most useful language to know, hands down, has been French. Which, ironically, my parents steered me away from when languages started in elementary school, because Spanish was seen as being much more useful. That made sense where I grew up (Southern California), but I've never used it for work. The German, yes, and Russian has been useful recently. Japanese, nope, never done anything with it (studied it because it was an interest, rather than a requirement).

It's a good idea to study a language, especially starting at a young age when it's just easier to learn. I wouldn't force Mandarin on a child, though, in the hopes that it would someday help them get into college or succeed in business.

I studied Russian in the 70-80s! Might be useful again now thought, maybe I should brush up...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every yuppy thinks their kid is a future international businessman-barrister-leader at the world bank. Mandarin is nothing more than college app and resume fluff. 99.9% chance your Beltway-raised kid works some boring job in NYC, Philly or DC.

Yup. Nailed it.

It is also something that upper middle class kids do in college, then go to China, get a Chinese girlfriend for a few months and then rejoin reality and come home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chinese language programs around the country are seeing significant declines in interest and enrollment. Now that we are about 15 years into the "China will rule the world" fad it looks like people are finally realizing Mandarin is not so essential to their (or their kids') success in life. I don't consider Stanford students to be isolationist or disinterested in the world so I think it telling that enrollments are so low.

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2017/01/18/beijing-study-abroad-program-suspended-indefinitely/

"Stanford has announced that due to low enrollment, it will be indefinitely suspending its undergraduate overseas studies program in Beijing at the end of the 2016-2017 academic year.

This decision comes just months after the University’s consolidation of both the Chinese and Japanese majors and minors into one East Asian Studies program; both changes were made due to low interest and enrollment.

The Beijing program, which allows undergraduate students to study at Peking University, one of China’s leading research institutes, was established in 2004. Enrollment, which was high at first and able to fill the 20 to 30 slots each year, steadily declined over time. Last spring, only eight students participated in the program....."

So, you revived a 2 year old thread, just to add this?

Well, for those who don't think that Mandarin is a significant language, here's just a few thoughts.

If you search on a job search engine, I picked indeed.com for a sample, and you put "Mandarin required" you get 5366 hits, 258 if you restrict it to Washington DC.
Now, put in French required and you get 3803 hits, 304 in Washington DC.
Now, put in German required and you get 1400 hits, 85 in Washington DC.
Japanese required 1735 hits, 26 in Washington DC.
Not surprisingly, Spanish is the big one with 44,443 hits and 1109 in Washington DC.

So, Mandarin is the second most common foreign language required for jobs, second to Spanish. French and German aren't as useful languages as Mandarin in general. However, business is increasing in Mandarin speaking companies and companies that are trying to expand and do business in China. This is world-wide, the largest underdeveloped market and has the most opportunities for expansion anywhere. As time passes, the usefulness of French and German in employment will continue to decrease while the usefulness of Mandarin will increase. It may never become as dominant as English, but Mandarin and Spanish are likely to be the most sought-after secondary languages over the next century.

Okay, interesting exercise but you failed to mention that most of those Mandarin jobs here in the DC area are either low level service jobs (working at Tumi in Georgetown - "Mrs. Chen, could I show you a larger bag that might better fit your needs?") or NGO jobs that pay 40k. I just went on indeed and put in "Accounting", restricted it to DC and got 2,500 hits. Keep in mind that DC is also the best place in the country to find a job using Chinese - it actually gets much much harder once you leave DC because most cities do not have think tanks, NGOs and government agencies so that 304 jobs number you cite is sort of an exception. You gonna use that Mandarin at the IRS office in Kansas City?