Are men aware when they have sexist views about women and just don't care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at a statistic: likelihood of being raped of you are a woman, versus likelihood of being raped if you are a man. I'd take higher odds of being punched in the face over being raped any day.
How about likelihood of being killed by domestic violence? Yep, we women get to win that one too.
I'm tired of hearing that it "goes both ways". Sure, it does. But NOT in equal volume.

The PP that gave the explanation about the distinction of being terrorized because of some immutable personal characteristic (e.g. gender) was persuasive.

This response is much less so. Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes. So, if we're going to do the one-upmanship thing, I'll see your rape victimization and raise you murder victimizations.

That's true, but misleading. How many of those male murder victims are involved in high-risk situations? (I.e., gang violence, drug-related violence.) NOT to say they deserve it, they don't. But it's not the same thing as being attacked randomly in a situation where you have every right to expect you are "safe". If you look at those stats, it's a very different picture.

Most attacks on women are not random at all. Many, many domestic violence incidences also involve drugs and alcohol and involvement in criminal activity. I would have to go back and find the statistic but the majority of violence against women cases also include the same factors. Sure the jump out from behind the bushes in a total random attack can happen (to both men and women) but it is not the way most violence happens.

Saying that "most violence isn't jump out from the bushes attack" violence doesn't mean that more "random" violence doesn't happen to women than men.
And what does the statistic that the majority of violence against women includes the same factors even mean? Does it mean the woman is involved in the criminal activity? Or just that the person attacking her is? (In which case, big deal.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes perpetrated by other men. Women are likely to be one victims of violence perpetrated by men. I think this point is being overlooked. It's not a simple matter of numbers. If you want to know why women worry about violence at the hands of men, it's because most of us have either experienced it firsthand and seen it happen to our friends and family.

Except that given the fact that more men experience more violence than women - men are even more likely to have experienced it firsthand or seen it happen to friends or family. Women are also perpetrators of violence and not in small numbers, towards both men and women. Domestic violence (or intimate partner violence) perpetrated by women is not uncommon. Woman are more likely than men to abuse their children (physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect). Many women experienced violence in their homes perpetrated by women when they were children. Look at all the posts on here about abusive MILs and being estranged from mothers due to childhood abuse. They are posted everyday.

Are you asserting that women are the primary perpetrators? Statistics don't support that.

No, they don't. This PP is very invested in the notion that women aren't any more victimized than men. Mansplaining.

[Anonymous]

Question for the PPs from a repeat-poster on this thread:

Do you believe that violence against women is a significant problem? Do you believe that women are targeted for violence because they are women?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes perpetrated by other men. Women are likely to be one victims of violence perpetrated by men. I think this point is being overlooked. It's not a simple matter of numbers. If you want to know why women worry about violence at the hands of men, it's because most of us have either experienced it firsthand and seen it happen to our friends and family.

Except that given the fact that more men experience more violence than women - men are even more likely to have experienced it firsthand or seen it happen to friends or family. Women are also perpetrators of violence and not in small numbers, towards both men and women. Domestic violence (or intimate partner violence) perpetrated by women is not uncommon. Woman are more likely than men to abuse their children (physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect). Many women experienced violence in their homes perpetrated by women when they were children. Look at all the posts on here about abusive MILs and being estranged from mothers due to childhood abuse. They are posted everyday.

Are you asserting that women are the primary perpetrators? Statistics don't support that.

No, they don't. This PP is very invested in the notion that women aren't any more victimized than men. Mansplaining.

I don't even know what mansplaining is.

Primary perpetrators of what kind of violence? In general. No, I am not asserting that. Men perpetrate violence and are victims of violence in much greater numbers than women. Women are more likely to be charged with (non-sexual) child abuse and neglect than men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for the PPs from a repeat-poster on this thread:

Do you believe that violence against women is a significant problem? Do you believe that women are targeted for violence because they are women?

Thanks.

Yes. I believe that both those statements are true. I also believe that violence against men is a significant problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the PPs from a repeat-poster on this thread:

Do you believe that violence against women is a significant problem? Do you believe that women are targeted for violence because they are women?

Thanks.

Yes. I believe that both those statements are true. I also believe that violence against men is a significant problem.

Okay. Do you believe that the existence and acknowledgement of one devalues the import of the other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes perpetrated by other men. Women are likely to be one victims of violence perpetrated by men. I think this point is being overlooked. It's not a simple matter of numbers. If you want to know why women worry about violence at the hands of men, it's because most of us have either experienced it firsthand and seen it happen to our friends and family.

Except that given the fact that more men experience more violence than women - men are even more likely to have experienced it firsthand or seen it happen to friends or family. Women are also perpetrators of violence and not in small numbers, towards both men and women. Domestic violence (or intimate partner violence) perpetrated by women is not uncommon. Woman are more likely than men to abuse their children (physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect). Many women experienced violence in their homes perpetrated by women when they were children. Look at all the posts on here about abusive MILs and being estranged from mothers due to childhood abuse. They are posted everyday.

Are you asserting that women are the primary perpetrators? Statistics don't support that.

No, they don't. This PP is very invested in the notion that women aren't any more victimized than men. Mansplaining.

In pockets they are. Women are about twice as likely to be murdered by their intimate partner. They are about 3 times more likely to be victims of a sexual offense than men, and about 10 times more likely to be the victim of a sexual assault as an adult. They are about equally as likely as men to be pushed, hit, or shoved in ways that don't cause lasting injury. Women are about 4 times less likely to be murdered than a man. Women are about 3 times less likely to be the victim of an aggravated assault. Women are also less likely to be the victim of any kind of assault, less likely to be robbed, less likely to be the victim of threats, less likely to be the victim of an attempted murder. Women are slightly more likely to be forcibly confined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the PPs from a repeat-poster on this thread:

Do you believe that violence against women is a significant problem? Do you believe that women are targeted for violence because they are women?

Thanks.

Yes. I believe that both those statements are true. I also believe that violence against men is a significant problem.

Okay. Do you believe that the existence and acknowledgement of one devalues the import of the other?

I believe that the lack of acknowledgement of either devalues the importance of the one not acknowledged. Talking about violence as though it is only a significant problem for women or for men devalues the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP but I disagree with your position that men always attack women solely because they attack women and they always attack men for some other external reason. Not true. There are many motivations why people (men and women) are violent. Assuming you know everyone's motivation and then forming a generalized perception of men and women based on this is very flawed. Men are also victims of domestic violence and are also targeted sometimes just because of their gender, so you could equally say that men fully understand the experience of women and it isn't unique to them.

I am a woman and I have never been harassed or propositioned or had anyone expose themselves to me. So no experience is shared by everyone just because of gender.

I did not mean to suggest that men always attack women because they're women or that male-on-male violence is always the result of external factors. I was simply saying that many times, being a woman is an invitation to violence that being a man in a similar situation is not. I'm really glad to hear that you haven't been harassed or propositioned though. You're the first woman I've ever heard that from. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but how are you defining "harassed" or "propositioned"? Maybe things that other women find uncomfortable are not uncomfortable for you. I know that I certainly have different thresholds for certain things than some women I know (the word "bitch" doesn't really bother me unless it's used in a particularly hostile way, for example).

I think it's fairly safe to say that it's possible to generalize that women ARE targeted because of their gender more often than men are targeted because of their gender. I do not have statistics on hand to back this up, but will go see if I can find something on the internet to support this assertion.

I agree with this, just not your earlier assertion that there is a set formula to violence and that men always do x or women always do y.

I apologize. I didn't mean to imply a set formula to violence or prescribe gender roles! I was responding to what that PP said about street harassment vs. getting punched in the face by a man. I completely agree that men are socialized to tolerate more violence than women. I think that's horrible and is one of the things that I would fear and try to counteract as a parent, if I had a son. As it is, I have a four year old daughter, and I spend a lot of time thinking about how to raise a girl in the culture that she lives in. The reality is that my daughter is more likely to be raped or abused by an intimate partner than her brother would be.

Posters might be interested in this article from 2012: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/50-actual-facts-about-dom_b_2193904.html

And the reality is that if you had a son, he is more likely to be murdered than his sister would be.

I mean, we should work on all of it. And if you feel your efforts are more appropriately spent addressing the types of violence that affect women more, more power to you -- all too many people either exacerbate the problems or do nothing about any of them. And you certainly shouldn't feel like you have to address all of them versus none at all.

But, in light of the topic of this thread, is it sexist to think that violence against women is a more pressing problem than violence against men? Is it sexist to think violence that affects men more is more pressing than violence against women? Is it sexist to react negatively when you perceive a person is valuing the safety of one gender more than the safety of the other?

Okay, here's where I draw the line. Violence against men exists. Men experience violence across the board at higher rates. The reason that "violence against women" is an issue/cause/whatever is the historical support for the position that women are fundamentally "less". Worth less in the workplace. Owned by their male relatives. Disenfranchised in many political systems for hundreds of years. These are historical realities, and the reason that many people (not all women) focus on the issue of women's empowerment (or feminism or whatever you want to call it) is that women have historically not been empowered.

Are we to ignore the historical underpinnings of all oppression in order to focus broadly on oppression in general? Are we to ignore the social and political apparatuses that have supported the denial of political and economic rights to a particularly group simply because another group also experiences a denial of something?

As for your bolded statement, I don't know. I personally don't value the safety of one gender over another - it's important to me that everyone is safe. I think that it would sexist to say that because violence against women exists, violence against men is unimportant. I think it would be sexist to say that because men experience more violence overall, violence against women is unimportant. I don't react negatively when a person chooses to prioritize solving one problem over another, provided that they are not denying that the second problem exists at all.

Yes. Nobody would support murder or assault or battery being legal. It was legal to beat or rape your wife for a long time, and may still be legal in some states. Sexual assault against women gets treated much more differently than assault. No one asks the male victim of sodomy whether he was asking for it. And this is just in our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the PPs from a repeat-poster on this thread:

Do you believe that violence against women is a significant problem? Do you believe that women are targeted for violence because they are women?

Thanks.

Yes. I believe that both those statements are true. I also believe that violence against men is a significant problem.

Okay. Do you believe that the existence and acknowledgement of one devalues the import of the other?

I believe that the lack of acknowledgement of either devalues the importance of the one not acknowledged. Talking about violence as though it is only a significant problem for women or for men devalues the other.

Not the PP, but I agree.

I'd like to see domestic and sexual assault stigma be gone for both sexes. The whole idea that it's the victim's fault really pisses me off. That could be a cop asking if the male victim of sexual assault if it was what he wanted or the female victim what she wearing. Both are f'ed up and contributing to the culture that devalues all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question for the PPs from a repeat-poster on this thread:

Do you believe that violence against women is a significant problem? Do you believe that women are targeted for violence because they are women?

Thanks.

Yes. I believe that both those statements are true. I also believe that violence against men is a significant problem.

Okay. Do you believe that the existence and acknowledgement of one devalues the import of the other?

I believe that the lack of acknowledgement of either devalues the importance of the one not acknowledged. Talking about violence as though it is only a significant problem for women or for men devalues the other.

Not the PP, but I agree.

I'd like to see domestic and sexual assault stigma be gone for both sexes. The whole idea that it's the victim's fault really pisses me off. That could be a cop asking if the male victim of sexual assault if it was what he wanted or the female victim what she wearing. Both are f'ed up and contributing to the culture that devalues all of it.

I agree. I would like to see safe houses for men and many more social supports and services for men who are being abused or are victims of violence. Not at the expense of services for women but in addition to. I would also like to see more training for police so that men could call when they are being hurt or their lives are in danger without fear that they will be the one arrested. Currently there is almost no where a man can go other than a homeless shelter if he is a victim of domestic violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of men are genuinely ignorant. They just don't know any better.

That said, a lot of men are sexist to the point of being prideful about it.

But not all men are pridefully sexist or ignorant.

+1

[Anonymous]

some just don't know that they are being sexist, and won't believe you if you call them out on their sexist views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is one guy at my work who calls younger women sweetly.

-he needs a decent flogging.

[Anonymous]

I am a man, and older women call me "sweety" and "honey" all the time.